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Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/5/2008 2:17:50 PM

micheljq

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From: Quebec
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Hello, at this point of the development of the game, do we know what will be the hardware and software prerequisites of MWiF?

I know it was discussed before but can we have an update of is it too early yet?

Thank you,

Post #: 1

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/5/2008 6:37:01 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

Hello, at this point of the development of the game, do we know what will be the hardware and software prerequisites of MWiF?

I know it was discussed before but can we have an update of is it too early yet?

Thank you,

There will be minimum and recommended configurations. These haven't changed recently.

All the forms are designed to fit within 1024 by 768 pixels. However, the layout of the screen is much better if using 1280 by 1024 (recommended). Of course, when it comes to screen size, larger is always better. MWIF supports multiple monitors and the forms are not restricted as to placement. This means you could use a very large monitor for the map and several other monitors for viewing other forms (100+).

Required memory really depends on your patience level. 1GB of RAM will work, but 2 is recommended and 4 wouldn't be a bad idea.

The program is designed for Windows XP and I oscillate between thinking it will run cleanly under Vista and despairing that it won't. Eventually it will support Vista, though it might have to be run in XP emulation mode. That is a fairly painless process. You just set up the executible to always use emulation mode for MWIF.

Disk memory should be a non-issue given how cheap disk space is to purchase. The executible program itself is over 22 MB currently, and growing. If you have a couple free GB of disk space that should be fine. Of course, it would be better if those GBs were not intensely fragmented.

_____________________________

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to micheljq)

Post #: 2

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/5/2008 7:12:26 PM

micheljq

Posts: 791
Joined: 3/31/2008
From: Quebec
Status: offline

Please see my other questions in bold here :

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

There will be minimum and recommended configurations. These haven't changed recently.

All the forms are designed to fit within 1024 by 768 pixels. However, the layout of the screen is much better if using 1280 by 1024 (recommended). Of course, when it comes to screen size, larger is always better. MWIF supports multiple monitors and the forms are not restricted as to placement. This means you could use a very large monitor for the map and several other monitors for viewing other forms (100+). Q. Do you need a powerful graphic card, or any cheap graphic card will do?

Required memory really depends on your patience level. 1GB of RAM will work, but 2 is recommended and 4 wouldn't be a bad idea.

The program is designed for Windows XP and I oscillate between thinking it will run cleanly under Vista and despairing that it won't. Eventually it will support Vista, though it might have to be run in XP emulation mode. That is a fairly painless process. You just set up the executible to always use emulation mode for MWIF. I am happy because I use Windows XP, I hate Vista (my personal opinion of course). By the way Microsoft announced officially their next operating system - Windows 7, available somewhere in 2010 (another headache for programmers?).

Disk memory should be a non-issue given how cheap disk space is to purchase. The executible program itself is over 22 MB currently, and growing. If you have a couple free GB of disk space that should be fine. Of course, it would be better if those GBs were not intensely fragmented. You mean that the executable file when you look at the task manager it takes 22Mo, of memory?

Thanks for you time,
Michel Desjardins. PC/LAN Analyst for a big insurance company.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 3

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/5/2008 8:05:01 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

Please see my other questions in bold here :

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

There will be minimum and recommended configurations. These haven't changed recently.

All the forms are designed to fit within 1024 by 768 pixels. However, the layout of the screen is much better if using 1280 by 1024 (recommended). Of course, when it comes to screen size, larger is always better. MWIF supports multiple monitors and the forms are not restricted as to placement. This means you could use a very large monitor for the map and several other monitors for viewing other forms (100+). Q. Do you need a powerful graphic card, or any cheap graphic card will do?

Required memory really depends on your patience level. 1GB of RAM will work, but 2 is recommended and 4 wouldn't be a bad idea.

The program is designed for Windows XP and I oscillate between thinking it will run cleanly under Vista and despairing that it won't. Eventually it will support Vista, though it might have to be run in XP emulation mode. That is a fairly painless process. You just set up the executible to always use emulation mode for MWIF. I am happy because I use Windows XP, I hate Vista (my personal opinion of course). By the way Microsoft announced officially their next operating system - Windows 7, available somewhere in 2010 (another headache for programmers?).

Disk memory should be a non-issue given how cheap disk space is to purchase. The executible program itself is over 22 MB currently, and growing. If you have a couple free GB of disk space that should be fine. Of course, it would be better if those GBs were not intensely fragmented. You mean that the executable file when you look at the task manager it takes 22Mo, of memory?

Thanks for you time,
Michel Desjardins. PC/LAN Analyst for a big insurance company.

Graphics cards aren't that important for MWIF since it is not real time. The code is not looking to do anything other than draw bitmaps on the screen.

Yes, the EXE is 22+ MB.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 4

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/5/2008 9:22:37 PM

Anendrue

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Joined: 7/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
The program is designed for Windows XP and I oscillate between thinking it will run cleanly under Vista and despairing that it won't.

Is the VISTA issue due to elevation rights? If so an easier fix is to install anywhere but the /Program Files folder. I routinely get around the UAC restrictions this way. In fact I install to /Games It could easily be allowed to let the user choose a non standard install with a brief explanation if so. If the problem is DLLs in VISTA then emulation is the only fix I know of.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
This means you could use a very large monitor for the map and several other monitors for viewing other forms (100+).

Well I run a dual boot XP Professional and VISTA (both 32 bit), dual monitors on dual video cards and can support up to four monitors. I have enough monitors available to check this out if you need it.

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Post #: 5

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/5/2008 9:32:33 PM

Zorachus99

Posts: 1066
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From: Palo Alto, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

The program is designed for Windows XP and I oscillate between thinking it will run cleanly under Vista and despairing that it won't. Eventually it will support Vista, though it might have to be run in XP emulation mode. That is a fairly painless process. You just set up the executible to always use emulation mode for MWIF.

Perhaps roll the changes into the installer. I've written scripts that set directory permissions in the past. Forcing the user to set emulation mode would be terrible, and would be roundly criticized if you didn't set that for the user trying the program for the first time. Many more users try to run a game without a manual, and furthermore, the games which really excelled in the past few years didn't require the use of a manual or special instructions before you could start playing and fiddling with the program.

Production, resource allocation, transport, and all of the end of turn activities is going to be a push for you for release. I hate to say it, but I fear hairy problems that only crop up during the sequence of mutiple turns during a game.

Most importantly, what is your policy going to be after release? Are you going to be able to work on post-release issues?

_____________________________

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Post #: 6

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/5/2008 10:18:49 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

The program is designed for Windows XP and I oscillate between thinking it will run cleanly under Vista and despairing that it won't. Eventually it will support Vista, though it might have to be run in XP emulation mode. That is a fairly painless process. You just set up the executible to always use emulation mode for MWIF.

Perhaps roll the changes into the installer. I've written scripts that set directory permissions in the past. Forcing the user to set emulation mode would be terrible, and would be roundly criticized if you didn't set that for the user trying the program for the first time. Many more users try to run a game without a manual, and furthermore, the games which really excelled in the past few years didn't require the use of a manual or special instructions before you could start playing and fiddling with the program.

Production, resource allocation, transport, and all of the end of turn activities is going to be a push for you for release. I hate to say it, but I fear hairy problems that only crop up during the sequence of mutiple turns during a game.

Most importantly, what is your policy going to be after release? Are you going to be able to work on post-release issues?

If by post release you mean fixing bugs etcetera, then that is part of my contract with Matrix Games. But if you mean updating to support newer versions of the Windows operating systems, then that depends on a host of issues - as it does for any other computer game.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Zorachus99)

Post #: 7

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/5/2008 10:38:50 PM

Froonp

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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq
You mean that the executable file when you look at the task manager it takes 22Mo, of memory?

This is the size of the EXE file.

(in reply to micheljq)

Post #: 8

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/6/2008 2:32:22 PM

micheljq

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From: Quebec
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq
You mean that the executable file when you look at the task manager it takes 22Mo, of memory?

This is the size of the EXE file.

If you have 5 minutes, could you check in the task manager how much memory the process is taking when you load the game with all options and all maps for the sake of curiosity.
- Right click task bar, click on task manager and look at the process tab.
If you have time to spare.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 9

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/6/2008 4:53:05 PM

Anendrue

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quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq
You mean that the executable file when you look at the task manager it takes 22Mo, of memory?

This is the size of the EXE file.

If you have 5 minutes, could you check in the task manager how much memory the process is taking when you load the game with all options and all maps for the sake of curiosity.
- Right click task bar, click on task manager and look at the process tab.
If you have time to spare.

Will there only be one process or will there be more than one such as net play?

_____________________________

Integrity is what you do when nobody is watching.

(in reply to micheljq)

Post #: 10

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/6/2008 5:57:21 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq
You mean that the executable file when you look at the task manager it takes 22Mo, of memory?

This is the size of the EXE file.

If you have 5 minutes, could you check in the task manager how much memory the process is taking when you load the game with all options and all maps for the sake of curiosity.
- Right click task bar, click on task manager and look at the process tab.
If you have time to spare.

524,549

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to micheljq)

Post #: 11

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/6/2008 6:21:45 PM

wfzimmerman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

524,549

that's substantially larger than any other app running on my system (I have 12 windows open right now), Word 2007 is using 49K, Firefox is using 76K, EXCEL is using 26K.

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Post #: 12

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/6/2008 6:43:55 PM

Zorachus99

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From: Palo Alto, CA
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Bitmap resources are near windows maximum aren't they?

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Post #: 13

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/6/2008 6:45:25 PM

micheljq

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From: Quebec
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

524,549

that's substantially larger than any other app running on my system (I have 12 windows open right now), Word 2007 is using 49K, Firefox is using 76K, EXCEL is using 26K.

For a gaming application, 524Mo. is quite normal maybe somewhat large. But considering that this is a "monster PC game", I am not surprised. You cannot compare this to a word processing, spreadsheet, or internet browser application requirements. I personally think 1Gig of RAM will really be a minimum to run the game (maybe 2Gig for Vista). Anyway it's the same memory requirements for most actual PC games and DDR2 memory is very affordable these days.

Thanks for the information.

< Message edited by micheljq -- 11/6/2008 6:57:06 PM >

(in reply to wfzimmerman)

Post #: 14

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/6/2008 7:06:12 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

Bitmap resources are near windows maximum aren't they?

Yes.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Zorachus99)

Post #: 15

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/6/2008 7:11:26 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

524,549

that's substantially larger than any other app running on my system (I have 12 windows open right now), Word 2007 is using 49K, Firefox is using 76K, EXCEL is using 26K.

Besides the bitmap requirements, I expect all the applications you named to require much less code than MWIF. For example, how many different forms do those applications have? MWIF has 100+. How many steps would you estimate in any of the processing sequences? MWIF has over 150 phases/subphases in the sequence of play. Game are much more complex than business applications unless you are dealing with very large databases that need to be integrated (e.g., banking, manufacturing, transshipping, airlines, etc.).

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 16

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/8/2008 2:21:22 PM

hakon

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Are you saying that MWiF requires more code than MS Word? That product is currently at more than 2 million lines, and topping that is pretty impressive :)

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Post #: 17

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/8/2008 6:37:10 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hakon

Are you saying that MWiF requires more code than MS Word? That product is currently at more than 2 million lines, and topping that is pretty impressive :)

Ah, I guess not. MWIF is approaching 300,000 lines.

What does "MS Word code" include? For instance, does the number of lines include DDLs that it uses in common with other products (e.g., Excel)? What I find confusing is that Fred quotes his Word 2007 executible as being 49K. Compressing 2 million lines down to a 49K EXE doesn't sound right. Perhaps they are counting all the variations for different languages? Or fonts and clipart?

Upon reflection I don't really have much interest in this. But I will choose my words more carefully in the future when discussing this topic.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 18

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/9/2008 2:13:00 AM

hakon

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I dont really know exactly how they count, but clearly much of the code is in DLL's, which is only loaded (dynamically, as the name imples), when needed. In Word2003 (which I am still running), the exe itself is about 12MB, but loading the application takes only 6MB of private memory. (Even on my 64bit Vista).

The In any case, these days, the memory requirements for storing actual code is pretty insignificant, even for the largest programs.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 19

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/12/2008 10:22:06 PM

petracelli

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Steve

A very quick question for you as am considering invseting in a new laptop and have noticed the requirements you've outlined, take it that as it will come with vista it has an emulation mode builti nto it-sorry still using an old pc.

Thanks for your help and really looking forward to seeing the game.

thanks

Phil

(in reply to micheljq)

Post #: 20

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/13/2008 12:32:49 AM

Zorachus99

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From: Palo Alto, CA
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Excellent question as XP has been officially discontinued with all the major OEMs. In a few years people will look back at XP similarly to how they look back at Windows 98SE now...

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Post #: 21

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/13/2008 1:26:01 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: petracelli

Steve

A very quick question for you as am considering invseting in a new laptop and have noticed the requirements you've outlined, take it that as it will come with vista it has an emulation mode builti nto it-sorry still using an old pc.

Thanks for your help and really looking forward to seeing the game.

thanks

Phil

Vista has an XP emulation mode. When you execute any program, you have the option of running it under XP emulation instead of 'native' Vista.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to petracelli)

Post #: 22

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 11/13/2008 2:39:33 PM

micheljq

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

Excellent question as XP has been officially discontinued with all the major OEMs.� In a few years people will look back at XP similarly to how they look back at Windows 98SE now...

Windows 98 was one of the most unstable and easy to chrash operating systems of all time. When Windows 2000 and XP were created, they were far superior to Win98 or Win98SE undiscutably. For Vista compared to XP this is another matter, Microsoft has retarded the date of discontinuation of XP due to the community pressure. They have also accelerated the development of their next O.S. - Windows seven, because of the mixed popularity of Vista.

< Message edited by micheljq -- 11/13/2008 2:40:26 PM >

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Post #: 23

Windows XP available until mid 2009 - 12/31/2008 3:14:19 PM

micheljq

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Update on Windows XP as of december 23th.

An article posted over on ZDNet.com reported that Microsoft is allowing system builders--the smaller "white box" builders other than Dell and HP--to obtain copies of Windows XP for preloading on PCs until May 30, 2009.

source : http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Windows-XP-PC-OEM-OS,news-3204.html

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Post #: 24

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 1/8/2009 10:15:29 PM

Petracelli69

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Steve

A quick question for you. Have been lucky enough to get a widescreen laptop in readiness for MWIF will MWIF make the most of the widescreen monitor?

cheers

Phil

(in reply to micheljq)

Post #: 25

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 1/9/2009 12:19:42 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Petracelli69

Steve

A quick question for you. Have been lucky enough to get a widescreen laptop in readiness for MWIF will MWIF make the most of the widescreen monitor?

cheers

Phil

Yes.

I have seen some distortion if I change the resolution on my wide screen laptop. With some aspect ratios I get elongated images. I haven't investigated this in detail - and things appear to be fine if I don't try force a 4:3 resolution on a wide screen monitor.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 26

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 1/9/2009 1:42:14 AM

lomyrin

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I am running MWiF screens on a 26 inch 1920 x 1280 monitor and it looks beautiful.

Lars

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Post #: 27

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 1/9/2009 6:35:45 PM

brian brian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: petracelli

Steve

A very quick question for you as am considering invseting in a new laptop and have noticed the requirements you've outlined, take it that as it will come with vista it has an emulation mode builti nto it-sorry still using an old pc.

Thanks for your help and really looking forward to seeing the game.

thanks

Phil

Vista has an XP emulation mode. When you execute any program, you have the option of running it under XP emulation instead of 'native' Vista.

OK I really hate to ask this question here, and I don't want an answer from Steve, but if anyone knows how to make this happen I would love to hear about it. I know a bare minimum about Windows but I do use it to run QuickBooks. And QuickBooks is not getting along with Vista very well at all. Just enough that the program works, but frequently after clicking "ReTry" for ten minutes or so. I've looked into it on the internet and so far haven't found anyone posting with my same problem having found a solution. So if you know how to get an XP emulation mode working I would like to hear about it in a PM. Sorry to go so off-topic.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 28

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 1/9/2009 11:33:05 PM

Anendrue

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian
OK I really hate to ask this question here, and I don't want an answer from Steve, but if anyone knows how to make this happen I would love to hear about it. I know a bare minimum about Windows but I do use it to run QuickBooks. And QuickBooks is not getting along with Vista very well at all. Just enough that the program works, but frequently after clicking "ReTry" for ten minutes or so. I've looked into it on the internet and so far haven't found anyone posting with my same problem having found a solution. So if you know how to get an XP emulation mode working I would like to hear about it in a PM. Sorry to go so off-topic.

I assusme you are using Vista

right click on the quick books executable file and select properties
select the compatibility tab
make sure Windows XP is selected
put a check on the box for compatibility mode
left click ok

if you still expierence problems reverse this and call Intuit

if a didfferent version of windows which one?

< Message edited by abj9562 -- 1/9/2009 11:34:21 PM >

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Post #: 29

RE: Hardware and software prerequisites - 1/10/2009 1:56:34 AM

brian brian

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thanks a lot abj! I'll give that a try. sure enough, Vista and QuickBooks got along perfectly today while I was at my CPA's office getting ready for tax season, like two squabbling children suddenly in the presence of Grandma and her purse full of treats, but I doubt that will last.

now in an attempt to get this thread back on track, it would seem approriate to start running MWiF through the beta version of Windows 7 to see what happens.

[a Microsoft guy possibly hinted in an interview today that they might give Vista purchasers some help on upgrading to 7, which would be nice]

(in reply to Anendrue)

Post #: 30