Slitherine

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mr.godo...

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ORIGINAL: mr.godo

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I still support simultaneous diplomacy, but I realize there WILL be a cost to it.

Let's get things nicely defined, shall we?

SIMULTANEOUS RESOLUTION - all players turns being resolved at the same time
SIMULTANEOUS SUBMISSION - player turns being submitted to a central host who then processes the turn
COMBINED PHASES - two or more phases combined into one phase, such as combining economics and reinforcement
COMBINED STEPS - when steps within a phase a combined into the phase, such as declarations of war, peace, etc. within the diplomacy step.

Jimmer, you're referring to combined steps, correct? How does that affect the speed of the game? I do not believe this is at issue here.

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ORIGINAL: Ashtar
1. Having synchronous diplomatic and economic phases (everyone can do its moves without
waiting for the others - then game loads them in order).

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ORIGINAL: mr.godo
Then explain to me the reason that infantry only show up during the third month of a year. You never see infantry reinforcements during January. Does this represent some natural phenomenon where your levies only arrived every three months or is it some form of game approximation?

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Your "simultaneous submission" is close to this, but this doesn't require a central host. The game would process these on each player's system.

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Simultaneous phasing means all players can submit their phase PBM file at any time (after the previous phase, that is). It's simultaneous only in that they all get processed at once, after the last person has submitted the phase orders.

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ORIGINAL: mr.godo
With respect to sequential reinforcement steps, the reason, or at least part of the reason, for having a turn order in a game is because it is not conducive to peaceful play if you have no order. It's just board game logic and it should be dumped in favour of a more fluid system that manages time better. Was Turkish intelligence really that great to have them rated fifth in the sequence? What about Great Britain's control of the sea? Wouldn't it make more sense to have them always set up last given that they're more able to drop forces off by sea while the french would have to march there?

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ORIGINAL: HanBarca

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Your "simultaneous submission" is close to this, but this doesn't require a central host. The game would process these on each player's system.

Who rolls the dice?

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ORIGINAL: HanBarca
If the phase is processed on every players' pc, who rolls the dice ?

If the phase is processed on the last player's pc, he should also send out the phase results to everyone (i am russia, i want to know what happened in the reinf phase before moving my navy).

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mr.godo, the reason many people here wants to see EIANW as close as possible to EIA is that EIA was a beautiful balanced game. The more things you change without a serious playtesting, the more chances to disrupt that balance you have.

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ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear

Marshall, let's see if we can gets some resolution here. Early on in this thread, you made the following statement with regards our begging for sim dip and sim eco:

“I will say this again and I will stand behind this forever! The main cause for PBEM game delay is someone going away on vacation, sick, job change, holiday, etc. ALL of which a thousand hours of programming would not fix (It doesn't matter if diplomacy is run at the same time, you still cannot proceed without Turkey's diplomacy and if Turkey is on vacation then you're waiting).”

Your statement about not being able to go when someone is on vacation is true (unless Turkey forwards his game to an ally like a good boy), but many people strongly disagreed with you saying the main problem was not the two weeks a year Turkey was on vacation, but the day to day delays of 24 hours between player submissions. Some continued to beg for sim dip and eco, thinking it would be a great improvement, to which you replied.

“If there is any room for improvement it would be here. I agree with this.
Diplomacy and Eco are the only phases I would ever allow this for.”

Ok, there appears to be at least some sort of progress towards a compromise that sim dip and sim eco would help. (sim rein can be debated later, small steps gentlemen).

Then elsewhere you mentioned.

“Phase skipping is a BIG change in 1.05 and it is not because of me but because for you guys. I personally did not think it would change much BUT it did and I myself can see it!

So, in summary ... do not despair :-)”

This hints at hope, but I can’t tell if we are winning you over here on the sim phase idea. If you didn’t believe phase skipping would help, but when you did it, you found it was a great improvement, could you not make the same leap of faith on sim dip?

Please.

With almost a 100 posts and 1,000 hits on this thread, I’m beginning to despair that we are not getting anyway here. Please give us sim dip, not because you want it, but because it will make us very happy and we will shower you with accolades.

If that works, we can move on to other items (eco and rein). (sorry, it never ends, you must have been very bad in a former life).

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We don't want to necessarily take different phases and combine them (see below). We want to allow simultaneous submission of game files for phases which are not sequentially dependant.

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ORIGINAL: Thresh

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We don't want to necessarily take different phases and combine them (see below). We want to allow simultaneous submission of game files for phases which are not sequentially dependant.

The fact that you don't think the diplomatic phase is sequentially dependent says volumes to me...

When I ask "Who's played simultaneous diplomacy before?" I mean this:

You and the six other players in your game submitted your orders for the diplomatic phase to a GM, who then processed those orders.  You did not have the opportunity to "Go back" and fix any errors or oversights.

Todd

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ORIGINAL: Thresh

You and the six other players in your game submitted your orders for the diplomatic phase to a GM, who then processed those orders.  You did not have the opportunity to "Go back" and fix any errors or oversights.

Todd

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ORIGINAL: mr.godo
Jimmer,
My point about the timing of infantry reinforcements is intended to demonstrate that some mechanics of the game were done for simplification. I believe the reinforcement rules are not tied to any supremacy in intelligence possessed by the French, or in their ability to respond better.

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You and the six other players in your game submitted your orders for the diplomatic phase to a GM, who then processed those orders.  You did not have the opportunity to "Go back" and fix any errors or oversights.

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ORIGINAL: Thresh
So, Player 1 submits his part of the Simultaneous turn at 5PM, when does Player 3 submit his part of the turn.  Three hours later at 8PM at the earliest?

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If the two day players could respond at the same time, then the game would be processed when the last person responds.

Which means.....wait for it.....The game is moving at the speed of the slowest player!

Imagine that....

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ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear

Hi Marshall
I can grin and bear it for a while, but was getting my hopes up with all this talk about speeding up play. Keeping pluggin away at it. The skipping was a nice surprise, and appears to be helping. Though we want more, and the sooner the better.
Bear.