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RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 12/4/2008 4:53:24 AM

Gem35

Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

$61 AUD for your CC Wacht Am Rhine digital download�is going to buy me a nice GMT board game and a Lock n' Load Expansion this weekend. Sorry. Too much risk and not enough value.

Your SSG prices have always made them too risky for me. $53 AUD�for the now old and defunct Battlefront digital download? You gotta be kidding! It's $60 in my local store right now with a manual - and it hasn't sold for�months.

I have to laugh, since I keep my games original box/pkg... looking at Battlefront when I bought it in 1990's or maybe 80's sticker on it is 64.95 USD

Don't know what it been in that times AUD, but with both adjusted for inflation, seems to me it should be probably alot higher then $53-60 AUD

Grigsbys original WITP was 69.95

Its 69.99 for Remake discounted to 48.99 Yet those 80's or 90's dollars would have it far higher...

Frankly the prices are good... Sure Digital downloading may also seem a cheaper way then boxed but I wonder what the costs are to run something like digital river and the cost to Matrix...

Servers, ISP fees, Maint, paying techs, etc must make it cost some for such likr DR... or any company running own website.

What is the use , the folks who are don't like the prices would most likely find something else to complain about. They are just here to argue.

_____________________________

It doesn't make any sense, Admiral. Were we better than the Japanese or just luckier?

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(in reply to Cmdrcain)

Post #: 61

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 12/6/2008 2:45:15 AM

Adam Parker

Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

$61 AUD for your CC Wacht Am Rhine digital download�is going to buy me a nice GMT board game and a Lock n' Load Expansion this weekend. Sorry. Too much risk and not enough value.

Your SSG prices have always made them too risky for me. $53 AUD�for the now old and defunct Battlefront digital download? You gotta be kidding! It's $60 in my local store right now with a manual - and it hasn't sold for�months.

I have to laugh, since I keep my games original box/pkg... looking at Battlefront when I bought it in 1990's or maybe 80's sticker on it is 64.95 USD

Don't know what it been in that times AUD, but with both adjusted for inflation, seems to me it should be probably alot higher then $53-60 AUD

Grigsbys original WITP was 69.95

Its 69.99 for Remake discounted to 48.99 Yet those 80's or 90's dollars would have it far higher...

Frankly the prices are good... Sure Digital downloading may also seem a cheaper way then boxed but I wonder what the costs are to run something like digital river and the cost to Matrix...

Servers, ISP fees, Maint, paying techs, etc must make it cost some for such likr DR... or any company running own website.

What is the use , the folks who are don't like the prices would most likely find something else to complain about. They are just here to argue.

@ Cmdrcain - You bought a 2007 game (SSG's Battlefront) in 1990? Read my post properly.

@ Gem 35 - I bought John Tiller's Campaign Series. What have you bought this Matrix Xmas Sale? Read my post before you write insults.

What are your bona fides to the hobby this year Gem 35? Here are mine:

Total Board wargame purchases: $1510 AUD Total PC wargame purchaes: $250 AUD Total Matrix Games purchased: 3 (Commander Napoleon, GG's War Between the States, JT's Campain Series).

You bet I've earned the right to post, praise and complain. Come on - what have you given to the hobby this year?

(in reply to Gem35)

Post #: 62

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 12/7/2008 8:22:58 PM

06 Maestro

Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline

Matrix Guy's

Thanks for this Holiday sale.

I will finally pick up FOF and JT's Campaign Series (I was a fan of JT CS games years ago). I will get one more for my son-maybe I can break him away from FPS types. If I can manage to make a command decision, I will also pick one ancients game-tough choices.

It is not possible to satisfy everyone all the time, but you can come close sometimes-great sale.

(in reply to Adam Parker)

Post #: 63

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 12/9/2008 2:53:42 AM

Gem35

Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

$61 AUD for your CC Wacht Am Rhine digital download�is going to buy me a nice GMT board game and a Lock n' Load Expansion this weekend. Sorry. Too much risk and not enough value.

Your SSG prices have always made them too risky for me. $53 AUD�for the now old and defunct Battlefront digital download? You gotta be kidding! It's $60 in my local store right now with a manual - and it hasn't sold for�months.

I have to laugh, since I keep my games original box/pkg... looking at Battlefront when I bought it in 1990's or maybe 80's sticker on it is 64.95 USD

Don't know what it been in that times AUD, but with both adjusted for inflation, seems to me it should be probably alot higher then $53-60 AUD

Grigsbys original WITP was 69.95

Its 69.99 for Remake discounted to 48.99 Yet those 80's or 90's dollars would have it far higher...

Frankly the prices are good... Sure Digital downloading may also seem a cheaper way then boxed but I wonder what the costs are to run something like digital river and the cost to Matrix...

Servers, ISP fees, Maint, paying techs, etc must make it cost some for such likr DR... or any company running own website.

What is the use , the folks who are don't like the prices would most likely find something else to complain about. They are just here to argue.

@ Cmdrcain - You bought a 2007 game (SSG's Battlefront) in 1990? Read my post properly.

@ Gem 35 - I bought John Tiller's Campaign Series. What have you bought this Matrix Xmas Sale? Read my post before you write insults.

What are your bona fides to the hobby this year Gem 35? Here are mine:

Total Board wargame purchases: $1510 AUD Total PC wargame purchaes: $250 AUD Total Matrix Games purchased: 3 (Commander Napoleon, GG's War Between the States, JT's Campain Series).

You bet I've earned the right to post, praise and complain. Come on - what have you given to the hobby this year?

I earned the right to post just as you have, if you have bought games from the holiday sale I'll give you a hug. Seems a bit awkward to complain about Matrix games because If I have just bought War in the Pacific, perhaps I should pay Matrix for the years and years of enjoyment. I don't need a holiday sale to give my hard earned money to Matrix. If i feel I want to buy a game, I will. You also won't ever see me complain about a few dollars, but hey, feel free my friend.

_____________________________

It doesn't make any sense, Admiral. Were we better than the Japanese or just luckier?

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(in reply to Adam Parker)

Post #: 64

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 12/9/2008 2:57:43 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Let's all just relax - group hug folks, we love ya!

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Gem35)

Post #: 65

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 12/9/2008 3:04:41 AM

Gem35

Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline

Yessir. I appologize to anyone I may have rubbed the wrong way. I am here to offer any help/advice, etc. Sometimes I can open my mouth before I think about the ramifications. Above all I am here to promote one of the best forums on the internet. Happy holidays and no hard feelings to all of you.

_____________________________

It doesn't make any sense, Admiral. Were we better than the Japanese or just luckier?

Banner By Feurer Krieg

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 66

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 12/18/2008 8:27:53 AM

Hertston

Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline

With apologies for dragging this up again I would point out that as of 17 December Steam sales to UK customers are now priced in�the fashion I suggested earlier was appropriate to current market and economic conditions.�� Their UK prices, VAT inclusive,�now reflect those seen on UK store shelves - indeed in�some cases they are actually cheaper.� For example, Left 4 Dead is �26.99.� CoD:WaW �29.99, GTA4 �26.99 and so on.��Their actual policy seems to be

1.� For mainstream releases, UK�'shelf' price (not 'RRP', note)

2.� For indie releases, approximate currency conversion from $US�but to�include VAT.

At least somebody has wised up.� Maybe somebody 'whined'�at them until they listened... or maybe they just checked their�sales�figures?��

�

(in reply to Gem35)

Post #: 67

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 12/18/2008 12:35:18 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Hertston,

I still don't see how a direct price conversion from US prices is unfair to anyone, especially when it's been in the UK's favor for months if not years and the change to parity happened in conjunction with a 30% off sale. The vast majority of our games never went to retail in Europe and don't have a "UK Shelf Price", nor are they mass market games that benefit significantly from economies of scale. They have one price which we charge to all our customers worldwide, based on direct currency conversion.

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to Hertston)

Post #: 68

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 12/18/2008 2:58:56 PM

Hertston

Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline

Hi Erik,

I'm not claiming anything is 'unfair' and never have done. I'll happily acknowledge that exchange rates obviously go and and down, and that sometimes non US customers 'win' and sometimes they 'lose'.

What I am talking about is a particular market at a particular time. No, most of your games don't have a 'UK shelf price'.. the only ones I can think off are the AGEOD games, albeit with a different publisher. BoA, 2 for example, is priced at �19.99 VAT inclusive (less than half what you are currently selling it for). I believe in supporting both developers directly and yourselves, but not to that extent. What does usually have a 'UK shelf price', though, are alternative video games in competition with your own for our time and our money. That now includes something very significant that it didn't two days ago; the entire Steam catalogue.

The point I am desperately trying to get across is not that there is an 'unfair' situation that requires whining about and that life consequently sucks, but that your products are currently uncompetitive in the UK market. Instead of paying more for a Matrix product, I (and others) will most likely buy something else instead. Instead of reduced profit, you make no profit. Nothing will stop me buying the Matrix games I really want badly; BftB springs to mind. But a year ago I might, and probably would, have picked up titles like Wacht am Rhein (as I did your other two CC games), World War One or Napoleon at War as well. At present I won't, they just don't represent good value for money. You seem to be working under the assumption that people will keep on buying the same volume of games despite what is (to us) a dramatic price-hike. IMHO they won't, particularly in a recession.

Surely you can understand the sale has no appeal; sure games would be 30% cheaper than otherwise but the price now is generally similar to that on release and if I had really wanted those I would have bought them at the time. The sale is for the stuff you are unsure about, or just feel like spending a little money on yourself for a change.

Maybe I'm a one-off, I don't know. If your UK sales are the same volume as they were six months ago, feel free to ignore me. If not, you might want to consider why Steam have changed their pricing policy for that market.

< Message edited by Hertston -- 12/18/2008 3:00:30 PM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 69

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 12/18/2008 3:22:17 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Hertston,

To cut to the chase, you are suggesting that we make some kind of special decrease of our UK prices to detach them from our US (and worldwide) prices in order to match mass market retail shelf pricing? How would this be fair to anyone outside the UK? Do you think we sell the same level of units as most retail shelf titles, such that it would make sense for us and our developers to do that?

I'm sorry to hear that you are looking elsewhere for your gaming and I appreciate that you're giving us what you feel is important and urgent advice. However, keep in mind that economies of scale don't apply to wargaming as they do to many other gaming genres. We can only go so far down in pricing before we should be fired for business incompetence, as we'd put ourselves out of business. The fact is that the pricing needs to stay where it is (or go higher) in order to both keep our developers ahead of their bills and fund future wargame development.

There just comes a point where every customer has to decided if a game is worth the price we're asking and if they'd like to see more games from a particular developer/publisher. As long as enough customers accept the prices that are required for wargames to continue to be developed and published, there will be wargames in abundance. If that stops, so will the wargames. Wargames by and large can't make their development cost back at a "budget" price and frankly overall wargame prices should probably be higher if we want to continue to advance the art of wargame design and development.

For sake of argument, because you can get a copy of "Monopoly" at a store for $19.99, do you expect the latest board wargame from GMT to be priced the same? Do you understand why it can't be? If you are a wargamer, buying and playing Monopoly is not going to be as satisfying as buying and playing that new wargame. How much is that worth to you?

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Hertston)

Post #: 70

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 12/18/2008 7:29:28 PM

Hertston

Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

To cut to the chase, you are suggesting that we make some kind of special decrease of our UK prices to detach them from our US (and worldwide) prices in order to match mass market retail shelf pricing?

No. I'm suggesting that you set prices seperately for each market, according to the pricing history of, and prevailing conditions and expectations within each market, at least in the short term. I would not anticipate pricing to match mass market shelf pricing as your sales volumes are much lower, but I would anticipate prices not totally out of step with it.

quote:

How would this be fair to anyone outside the UK? Do you think we sell the same level of units as most retail shelf titles, such that it would make sense for us and our developers to do that?

I fail to see how it would be unfair as, for example, nobody in the US would be paying any more. In both cases, in terms of our pay packets, we would be paying much the same as we always have.

quote:

I'm sorry to hear that you are looking elsewhere for your gaming and I appreciate that you're giving us what you feel is important and urgent advice. However, keep in mind that economies of scale don't apply to wargaming as they do to many other gaming genres. We can only go so far down in pricing before we should be fired for business incompetence, as we'd put ourselves out of business. The fact is that the pricing needs to stay where it is (or go higher) in order to both keep our developers ahead of their bills and fund future wargame development.

I'm not looking 'elsewhere' any more than I always have, and there are a couple of Matrix titles I will most certainly buy. But at current prices I will buy fewer titles, yes.

I don't follow your argument regarding pricing. Or at least I do, but I don't see how it is relevant. IMVHO a price reduction to something more competitive will increase your profits rather than reduce them, i.e additional sales volume will more than compensate for the reduction in profit for each unit. I am making a big assumption there, true, and you will have the figures and I don't. If that assumption is wrong, fair enough.. I have no case. But it does seem that the folks at Steam agree with me.

quote:

There just comes a point where every customer has to decided if a game is worth the price we're asking and if they'd like to see more games from a particular developer/publisher. As long as enough customers accept the prices that are required for wargames to continue to be developed and published, there will be wargames in abundance. If that stops, so will the wargames. Wargames by and large can't make their development cost back at a "budget" price and frankly overall wargame prices should probably be higher if we want to continue to advance the art of wargame design and development.

I accept that. I'm only asking you to consider the possibility that significant price hikes (as they appear to us) must hurt sales. It's not a case of a 'budget price', it is what is to us the same price. No matter how much you may want to support wargames developers, if you have only so much money available for games you will buy fewer of them if their prices increase. And if, like me, other gaming genres also appeal on occasion, they are likely toi appeal even more as they get relatively cheaper. That now includes not only major releases I can buy in stores, but a substantial amount of indie stuff from Steam.

quote:

For sake of argument, because you can get a copy of "Monopoly" at a store for $19.99, do you expect the latest board wargame from GMT to be priced the same? Do you understand why it can't be? If you are a wargamer, buying and playing Monopoly is not going to be as satisfying as buying and playing that new wargame. How much is that worth to you?

It is not, sticking with your metaphor, that the latest wargame from GMT costs more than Monopoly. It's that the latest wargame from GMT costs substantially more than the previous wargame from GMT while the price of Monopoly remains unchanged. Not only that; this year's flavour of the month in family board gaming is the same price as Monopoly. And Monopoly can be kind of fun, after all..

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 71

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 12/19/2008 7:16:10 AM

wargamerjack

Posts: 13
Joined: 8/15/2008
Status: offline

Any chance of� War Between States and CNAW going of discount ?

Thanks

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Post #: 72

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 12/19/2008 3:44:22 PM

Wilson ESQ

Posts: 61
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Buffalo now East TN
Status: offline

Sean,

I just ordered a game at a Holiday price and i didn't get that price and I can't get your help desk to work at all. Please advise.

Wilson

(in reply to SeanD)

Post #: 73

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 1/8/2009 4:06:50 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Please note the Holiday Sale is now over. Thanks for making it a success and Happy New Year 2009!

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Wilson ESQ)

Post #: 74

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 1/9/2009 7:51:47 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matix Sucks

Don't waste your money. Matrix doesn't give any refunds for any reason and they have a history of shipping defective products. Check their refund policy, "all sales are final."

heeheehee. Gawd, you're funny. Try a different post that we all can laugh about. Better yet, ask for your money back. Oh, you didn't get charged to register and post on the forums, eh? Hahaha. Welcome, Sucks. Is that your real name or just the one your daddy gave ya?

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And the people let me down.
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Post #: 75

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 1/9/2009 2:45:11 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Probably our "friend" Ravinhood... Looks like his spelling...

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Post #: 76

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 1/9/2009 3:54:37 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Troll deleted.

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 77

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 1/21/2009 12:47:45 PM

Cmdrcain

Posts: 1161
Joined: 8/21/2000
From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

@ Cmdrcain - You bought a 2007 game (SSG's Battlefront) in 1990? Read my post properly.

I have been playing Games since the 1980's...

Theres been other battlefront games in other times, SSG put out games in 80's..

Digging up history... note the Game is a C-64 game..

http://gotcha.classicgaming.gamespy.com/c64games.htm

Battlefront Electronic Arts C64 5.25" Disk Strategy MS

Alot of games on matrix are REMAKES of older games IE: War in the Pacific (WITP) and Uncommon Valor Have roots in Grigsbys older Pacific war and war in the South Pacific...

Battlefront has roots back to older versions.

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Post #: 78

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 1/28/2009 12:14:25 PM

htuna

Posts: 591
Joined: 1/19/2009
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline

quote:

Ever defiant, I took out my old West Front and installed it and it went fine. That was... until I tried to load a scenario when after the perfectly functioning menu and music I was told "NOT SUPPORTED ON WINDOWS NT"! - I'm running XP Pro.

So Erik, you've actually done the hobby a service here in getting the series to run on XP and Vista. I honestly didn't know that - YOU NEED BETTER ADVERTISING!

If you google you can find a patch for West Front and East Front for the "Not Supported Issue"... kind of a bummer to buy games again that you paid 50 bucks for 10 years ago..

(in reply to SeanD)

Post #: 79

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 1/28/2009 1:15:41 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

The main issue was not XP support, it was Vista and future OS support. The entire series did not function properly on Vista at all, ranging from outright compatibility issues to bizarre calculation bugs. Add to that the number of bugs fixed and improvements made over the original release, and the new package is IMHO well worth the money and a bargain at the price for those who enjoy CS.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to htuna)

Post #: 80

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 2/25/2009 6:56:34 AM

prakaushal

Posts: 1
Joined: 2/25/2009
Status: offline

It's Very nice to give discount on newly games.........

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Post #: 81

RE: Matrix Games Announces the 2008 Holiday Sale! - 4/27/2009 10:59:14 AM

Marc von Martial

Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ERPMSOFT

Grrr... no War Between the States in the sale - the only Matrix game I was waiting to purchase that I don't already own. Guess I'll wait until next year.

Well, you are commenting on a pretty old sale