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Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 12/5/2008 2:02:00 AM   
DivePac88


Posts: 3119
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
Status: offline 		I ask if my following understanding of the in-game Pilot training-management system could be reviewed or clarified please
For Naval fighter Pilot and Aircraft replacements:
1. That in the Home Islands or any quiet rear area you have Dedicated Training 27 aircraft Daitai Set on around 70% training, and that this Daitai will be normally equipped with obsolete aircraft.
2. When Daitai has reached acceptable experience level, or is needed for reinforcement of battle damaged Daitai;
A. Upgrade Training Daitai to same aircraft type as damaged Daitai, or upgrade individual sub-Chutai as needed. (With enough lead-time that replacement aircraft are serviceable.)
B. You fly damaged Daitai to training Daitai’s home base, or fly the number of needed sub-Chutai of training Daitai to damaged Daitai’s base
3. To reinforce damaged Daitai you disband training Daitai or sub-Chutai as needed into it.
4. With training Daitai you;
A. Disband remaining sub-Chutai, (if any) into same aircraft type unit, and wait for respawn in 90days, then start training process again.
B. Keep remaining sub-Chutai in training as future reinforcement.
I would appreciate any input on my understanding of this scheme as I think it is very important for Japanese to maintain pilot quality in later years of war.

Regards DP.


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Post #: 1
RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 12/5/2008 2:07:49 AM   
Treznor


Posts: 85
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		Good question for the new guys here, thanks for asking it.

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RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 12/5/2008 4:22:26 AM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Here is the fastest way to replace your pilots. NOTE: If you are playing PBEM, your opponent may object to some components of this! Some is kinda gamey, but here is the quickest method:

1. When you conquer the Phillipines, make sure you do not take at least one base. San Jose is a good candidate. Leave it Allied.
2. When you want to refresh depleted unit, call it unit (A), do the following:
a) Find a unit that you want to send replacement pilots from, unit (B). Make sure they are both at the same base.
b) Load unit (B) onto a transport. Set it immediately to UNLOAD.
c) Next turn, unit (B) will have a few repaired aircraft, but mostly damaged ones. Fly the repaired aircraft to a new base.
d) There will be a FRAGMENT of unit (B) remaining; DISBAND this into unit (A). The Veteran pilots will now transfer to Unit (A).
e) As a variation, you can DIVIDE unit (B) before you fly off the repaired aircraft, and split it into A/B/C units. You can fly off repaired planes on each of those, disband the fragments into totally separate units, and recombine them AFTER you have done that. This is a way to replace pilots in more than one unit at once.
f) The small unit (B), is now stripped of it's pilots. Replace all it's planes, and all it's pilots.
g) If you pool still has pilots in it, those replacement pilots in (B) will have some experience. If your pilot pool is empty, not to worry; your new pilots will be 35exp rookies.
h) BUT, you can immediately set those rookies to bombing San Jose or similar. They will rapidly build experience doing this. (NOTE: Some players consider this gamey. Doing this against targets in China is somewhat less gamey, as the Allies can shoot back. Even so, it does unrealistically boost IJN/IJA pilots).
i) You can refresh the planes in unit (A) to rebalance the number of aircraft in the unit.

That's it. You don't need to disband units and wait 90-days, though that is one way to do it. Using this method above, you will be able to replace all pilots within approx 60 days with 70+ exp pilots. Whether that is right or not is up to you. But it works.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 12/5/2008 4:30:58 AM >

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RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 12/5/2008 9:41:41 AM   
DivePac88


Posts: 3119
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
Status: offline 		Thank you Q-ball have tested your method and it works fine.
But I want to play PBEM though, so I wonder if training instead of attacking a soft target would be considered not so gamey?

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Post #: 4
RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 12/5/2008 11:13:28 AM   
Japan


Posts: 754
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Heaven on Earth (Scandinavia of course)
Status: offline 		I use my own Training Program, and that works pritty good for me.


Its about having a 40% smaller Airforce from  7th December 1941 untill 1st June 1943.

The 40% who is not in servise during this period, are undergoing a very significant training program who includes both reguler "on base Training" but also Air to Air Field Training vs real enamy aircrafts.   It is started on 7th December, but cxreating only 2 Air Groups out of many Air Groups,  this gives something like 120 or more pilots pr air group. This two air groups are then increased (by merging others into them) aigan, to finaly have over 200 pilots in them.  The units who "re-spawn" within 90 days are aigan re-merged into simuler air groups.  In the end you have 5, 10, 15 or 20.. Air Groups with over 150-200 Pilots in them.   Then have them Train for a long while,  and after that, use them in a "recless" way aiganst the enamy.   Accept the Huge Air Losses (and yes, have a Air Industry who supports it).  Ceap the Pressue up, and reinforce with new air groups, so you ceap the pilot numbers in the groups high. Use the Aircrafts hunting Enamy Ground Troops, Escort your Bombers, Sweep Enamy Airfields, CAP, LCAP, and all sorts of resonable missions you can come up with, ceap them in constant contact with enamy aircrafts, if you can put them on a base who constantly are being bombed so thay fast gain Air vs Air combat without to high pilot losses. (fight ower own terretory as often as possible).

At the end, you have a air group of 50 or so Pilots, with an Avverage Experience of 86-95.

This prosess takes 1,5 - 2  years,   But the result is that you during 1943 will get your "training groups" into the Field (were thay anyway have been for a while due to thair training)..  You will then have xxx amount of "normal" air groups, thay should have experience arround 70... and you will have 5,10,15 or 20 Elite Air Groups,  all with Experience between 86-95.

At the end, Megre your Elite Groups together so you can fill up 1 Squadron with 50-80 Skilled Pilots and some reserve aircrafts.


Of course, your cost is 40% less Airforce for almost 2 years, and arround 600 pilots who have died due to your "recless" usage opf those air groups.
Its a Survivors game...  Only your best Pilots in every group will Survive.  

When your done it Should look something like this:




28 77th from June 1943







78 9th from May 1943








< Message edited by Japan -- 12/5/2008 11:20:01 AM >

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RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 12/5/2008 11:23:07 AM   
Japan


Posts: 754
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Heaven on Earth (Scandinavia of course)
Status: offline 		Anyway, im sure its many ways to do it...  




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RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 12/5/2008 12:07:58 PM   
DivePac88


Posts: 3119
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
Status: offline 		Hi Japan thank you for your input.
I can see some possibilities in your system, and will test it. But to be candid I have a problem in that the reason I want experienced pilots is to save on aircraft losses, and your system seems very expensive in both rookie pilots and the aircraft they are flying.


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Post #: 7
RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 12/5/2008 1:25:17 PM   
Japan


Posts: 754
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Heaven on Earth (Scandinavia of course)
Status: offline 		Hey aigan mr. DivePac88,  In my hummel opinion, Japan has no problem with Aircraft Quantety,  I have thousends of engines in my pool, and more then 1000 planes of any Fighter or Bomber aircraft type i use in the pool. I also have over 100 000 HI in the Pool, a very developed Ship Industry and a Good Armaments and Vheacle Industry. I did capture India, something who i think was neccesary to support this with more HI as well as Resourses. The Air Industry are turned to OFF at present due to overproduction of planes, I can produse 700 Fighters pr month of any Fighter Type i use, and can also produse 500 Bombers pr month of any Bomber type i use. Since i have over 1000 in the pool of any type i use, i dont realy need to ceap production on. The Same counts for Armament industry, its also OFF due to Overproduction, have large quantety in the Pool. When it comes to Ship Production its also developed and are now still undergoing development.

The Positive with making lare production abiletys, is that you only need to run production of xxx for a limited amount of time, this enables you to save HI, or to not consume more HI then you need. Its very hard to calculate HI, but i think its very very very important to do it prior to game start, so you have a well defined and detaild Indistrual plan before you start doing anything. The Resourses is what that can cause the problem, so invade India if you intend to stick arround untill 47.

Japan has a insanely large army, and can IMHO safely (over time)  pull out (transfer via PP) a good 10 Divitions from China, and this is not realy many, because China Area Army gets alot of Full Divitions in Reinforcements also, it can also pull out whole Aviation Regiments from China. Btw im playing Big. B, who deals with the China District Army system, I think it simulates it pritty good,  this also limist the Chinese Offencive Capabilety, and by making a well planned defence structure with Mobile Reaction Forces and a strong Point Defence System,  the combined Defence of China can be sorted out faily easy i think anyways.

So well point being,  Japan is actualy a very stong nation, with huge capebiletys,  IMHO the only problem with Japan is the Pilot quantety.
This is why i go for arround 50% of the airforce as "Very Skilled", and the other 50% as "Normal Skill" Airforce.


Aigan this is only my personal preferences, im sure there is many many other ways of doing it.



Good Luck. 












< Message edited by Japan -- 12/5/2008 1:54:31 PM >

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RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 12/5/2008 1:52:21 PM   
DivePac88


Posts: 3119
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
Status: offline 		Thank you Japan, but it is me that is new and humble, and I meant no disrespect. But my take on the Japanese position is that it is all about oil and resources, and that aircraft cost oil and resources.

The simple problem as I see it is that even with the mechanics of this game evening things up for the sake of playability, Japan still has some of her historic problems. One of those problems was her woeful Naval Pilot Training system. To remedy this, the Japanese player in PBEM games is faced with two problems. The first is to put in place a system to train extra pilots within the mechanics of the game, and the second is to have a working system that is not considered too gamey by the Allied players. But in the way of things there must be a system to please both players?

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Post #: 9
RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 12/5/2008 3:23:39 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Keep in mind that in the AE expansion, you are going to have individual pilot skills.  The whole 'train by strafing hapless cut off units' gig isn't going to work anymore.  Sure your fighter pilots will be really good at strafing half starved troops running around an island, but they will still be horrible at air combat.

AE is going to negate the entire training process as we know it.

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RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 12/5/2008 4:08:05 PM   
Japan


Posts: 754
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Heaven on Earth (Scandinavia of course)
Status: offline 		I think that is a very nice addition to the WITP / AE.
Personaly most training is actualy to CAP or LCAP btw.

< Message edited by Japan -- 12/5/2008 4:14:09 PM >

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RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 12/7/2008 8:50:37 PM   
Treznor


Posts: 85
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		Is there a good way to train pilots without the gamey play?  Having them conduct missions in China will build there experience, won't it?  How does that compare with just the 'train=80 or so' option?

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RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 12/7/2008 9:28:10 PM   
DivePac88


Posts: 3119
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
Status: offline 		Hi Treznor, have been doing some testing with Pilot training, it seems like you can only get to about 55 experience level average with training (which is better than nothing I suppose). Attacking soft targets is maybe a-bit too gamey I think, so I will start using them operationally at that experience level.
DP.


_____________________________


When you see the Southern Cross, For the first time
You understand now, Why you came this way

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Post #: 13
RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 12/7/2008 9:39:00 PM   
fabertong


Posts: 4546
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Bristol, England, U.K.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Keep in mind that in the AE expansion, you are going to have individual pilot skills.  The whole 'train by strafing hapless cut off units' gig isn't going to work anymore.  Sure your fighter pilots will be really good at strafing half starved troops running around an island, but they will still be horrible at air combat.

AE is going to negate the entire training process as we know it.

Thank Thread............

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Post #: 14
RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 9/5/2013 2:48:05 AM   
ndworl

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 8/20/2013
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline 		Thanks for the advice. From those threads, I agree the approach is too gamey and I won't be undertaking it.

(in reply to DivePac88)
Post #: 15
RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 9/8/2013 9:11:53 PM   
Mobeer


Posts: 662
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		Although gamey, it does seem to be a necessary thing to have given there is no other way or improving air crew quality. Light losses, plenty of fuel and plenty of planes should help improve the pilot quality level vs. historical, but the fixed quality levels of new pilots seems to forbid this.

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Post #: 16
RE: Clarifying Japanese Pilot Training? - 9/14/2013 1:03:33 PM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 317
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline 		In WitP AE pilot training is better resolved. But if someone still play WitP I suggest just using editor and increase number of jap pilots.
WitP stock scenarios set it drastically low (even lower than in real war).
I suggest two ways:
1. Use 55-65 exp and reasonably monthly pool of 60 replacements pilots for both army and navy.
2. Use 89-90 exp and only a few monthly pilot replacements (aces) but this gives you unlimited 40-45 level replacements.

Both systems simulate it better than stock small values.

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Post #: 17
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