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RE: War in the East... - 6/29/2009 12:47:31 PM

rjh1971

Posts: 4919
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Good gawd - how long is a single turn going to take?

Barbarossa's first turn can easily take three hours or more, depends on how much you want to go on detail, apart from the attack path which you have to plan very carefully...

Of course once you get to know the game the first turn will be less time consuming, but be ready to spend that amount of time the first time.

Also I guess it will have a huge rule book... more time to spend

Edit: supressed some details which maybe I should have commented on...

< Message edited by rjh1971 -- 6/29/2009 12:52:47 PM >

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Post #: 91

RE: War in the East... - 6/29/2009 6:47:19 PM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
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There will be many smaller scenarios. We currently have a Typhoon scenario that covers Sept 25-Jan 7 (15 turns) and covers about 1/3 of the front. It plays fairly quickly. We expect to have some partial map scenarios, and some full map scenarios that are shorter than the full campaign.

I expect that a typhical turn in the full map campaign can be played in about 1 hour (some faster, some longer). That's an educated guess.

(in reply to rjh1971)

Post #: 92

RE: War in the East... - 6/29/2009 7:15:52 PM

Charles2222

Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

There will be many smaller scenarios. We currently have a Typhoon scenario that covers Sept 25-Jan 7 (15 turns) and covers about 1/3 of the front. It plays fairly quickly. We expect to have some partial map scenarios, and some full map scenarios that are shorter than the full campaign.

I expect that a typhical turn in the full map campaign can be played in about 1 hour (some faster, some longer). That's an educated guess.

For a comparison, would you say that WIR generally took 30 minutes per turn in full campaign?

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 93

RE: War in the East... - 6/29/2009 7:31:04 PM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

There will be many smaller scenarios. We currently have a Typhoon scenario that covers Sept 25-Jan 7 (15 turns) and covers about 1/3 of the front. It plays fairly quickly. We expect to have some partial map scenarios, and some full map scenarios that are shorter than the full campaign.

I expect that a typhical turn in the full map campaign can be played in about 1 hour (some faster, some longer). That's an educated guess.

For a comparison, would you say that WIR generally took 30 minutes per turn in full campaign?

Sorry, It's been too long since I played WIR to remember, but this game does take longer as there are more hexes and more units.

(in reply to Charles2222)

Post #: 94

RE: War in the East... - 6/29/2009 8:49:58 PM

Josans

Posts: 1728
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Barcelona (Spain)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

There will be many smaller scenarios. We currently have a Typhoon scenario that covers Sept 25-Jan 7 (15 turns) and covers about 1/3 of the front. It plays fairly quickly. We expect to have some partial map scenarios, and some full map scenarios that are shorter than the full campaign.

I expect that a typhical turn in the full map campaign can be played in about 1 hour (some faster, some longer). That's an educated guess.

For a comparison, would you say that WIR generally took 30 minutes per turn in full campaign?

No, all old wir players known you cant do a decent campaign turn in 30 minutes. More if you are focused in little things. But Gary give you the chance to choose how to spend your time

You can choose to control all (more time) or give to the AI do many of the duties... And the AI is working so good

We will see

< Message edited by Josan -- 6/29/2009 9:11:51 PM >

(in reply to Charles2222)

Post #: 95

RE: War in the East... - 6/29/2009 9:39:57 PM

Charles2222

Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Josan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

There will be many smaller scenarios. We currently have a Typhoon scenario that covers Sept 25-Jan 7 (15 turns) and covers about 1/3 of the front. It plays fairly quickly. We expect to have some partial map scenarios, and some full map scenarios that are shorter than the full campaign.

I expect that a typhical turn in the full map campaign can be played in about 1 hour (some faster, some longer). That's an educated guess.

For a comparison, would you say that WIR generally took 30 minutes per turn in full campaign?

No, all old wir players known you cant do a decent campaign turn in 30 minutes. More if you are focused in little things. But Gary give you the chance to choose how to spend your time You can choose to control all (more time) or give to the AI do many of the duties... And the AI is working so good We will see

I did plenty of decent campaign turns in WIR for the thousands of hours I played it in 30 minutes time, which may not had been the norm necessarily, but my question was meant more as an idea to see if Joel could figure out how much more time this one might take as compared to WIR; my proposed figure needn't be correct, inasmuch as it got the right answer from Joel. So if he agreed that WIR took 30 minutes, then his hour observation would mean double the time we spent with WIR. If he thought WIR took an hour, then the games in his opinion take about the same amount of time.

(in reply to Josans)

Post #: 96

RE: War in the East... - 1/13/2010 5:17:00 PM

latosusi

Posts: 327
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: London/Kuopio
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Does 1 week turns create problems for defenders? Like if you have 10 mile hexes and one week to attack you can penetreate very deeply to defenders rear area and surround them. Defender will nearly always be cut off from supply? How is turn sequence set up to avoid that problem?

(in reply to Charles2222)

Post #: 97

RE: War in the East... - 1/13/2010 5:42:10 PM

elmo3

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: latosusi

Does 1 week turns create problems for defenders? Like if you have 10 mile hexes and one week to attack you can penetreate very deeply to defenders rear area and surround them. Defender will nearly always be cut off from supply? How is turn sequence set up to avoid that problem?

The turn sequence is not set up to avoid units being surrounded because that did happen quite often in this campaign. Hundreds of thousands of troops were surrounded from the opening days of Barbarossa to Stalingrad and beyond. If the defender can't break out of a pocket his troops will indeed face dire supply problems. Some supplies can be flown in but it may not be enough. The game does an excellent job of portraying the problems both sides faced with regard to units being surrounded and whether they survive that situation or not.

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(in reply to latosusi)

Post #: 98

RE: War in the East... - 1/13/2010 6:22:24 PM

latosusi

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From: London/Kuopio
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What i mean is that one week is long time to consolidate your gains. Is there anything defender can do?

(in reply to elmo3)

Post #: 99

RE: War in the East... - 1/13/2010 7:40:45 PM

elmo3

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Joined: 1/22/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: latosusi

What i mean is that one week is long time to consolidate your gains. Is there anything defender can do?

Well a picture is worth a thousand words, or two pictures in this case. First is a pic from the Axis part of the first turn in the '42 campaign. They have pocketed quite a few Soviet divisions but note the northeast corner of the pocket is weakly held. The hexes shaded in red show Axis control. In the second pic you see how the Soviets were able to reopen the lines to their pocketed troops which allows them to be resupplied. The Soviet player also managed a very modest pocket of a German HQ and another unit (which is the 9th Pz Div). So you can see that in some cases the defender is able to relieve pocketed troops and in other cases they won't be so fortunate. Note that the Soviet player did not elect to try and move all his units out of the pocket. Sometimes units must be sacrificed to force the attacker to reduce the pocket through attacks. That can slow the attackers advance and hopefully cause more casualties for them as well.

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Post #: 100

RE: War in the East... - 1/14/2010 2:58:57 AM

critter

Posts: 139
Joined: 3/26/2004
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For me roads are not an issue..Don't matter as I'm sure the movement factors let you gallop thru Russia untill you hit the zoc's..Then it's hex by hex anyway.
Makes me laugh to see people complaining about the biggest land battle in history having to many counters...While a couple of warm up sens are probly needed..What East front warrior can't wait to get the campaign in his hands?
In the above example...How would the AI handle it? Would it counter attack to break out? Would it try to air supply it's units..Is it as good as you say?
Will the AI Germans push you back to Moscow and hold up for the whole campaign? Surround units and eliminate the pockets?
Would love to play as the Russians vs the AI in an East front game that didn't fall apart.
How many mailings per turn/side in a pbem turn?

(in reply to elmo3)

Post #: 101

RE: War in the East... - 1/14/2010 3:16:42 AM

critter

Posts: 139
Joined: 3/26/2004
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In the above example are the Russian units so weak because of their supply state? I know a Germ div was the equal to a Ruski Corps..But it still seems the Russians are a little weak... Man can hardly wait to get my hands on this.

Also... am I reading it right that you will look at certain User made sens and give them official blessing? Perhaps include them in a patch that will include them in the game?
I play another system that ignors user sens that are as good as the ones they put out. It can only help in advertisement of your product.

(in reply to critter)

Post #: 102

RE: War in the East... - 1/14/2010 10:49:44 AM

elmo3

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Joined: 1/22/2002
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I have not spent any time with the AI yet and it's still being improved so I don't know how the AI handles pockets, either making them or breaking them.� PBEM is not really implemented yet. We only need to send one file manually each turn now so I'm guessing that is how it will be with PBEM but don't hold me to that.� There has been some informal discussion about a future scenario pack but no decision has been made.

< Message edited by elmo3 -- 1/14/2010 10:51:01 AM >

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Post #: 103

RE: War in the East... - 1/14/2010 1:09:35 PM

jaw

Posts: 1045
Joined: 7/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: critter

In the above example are the Russian units so weak because of their supply state? I know a Germ div was the equal to a Ruski Corps..But it still seems the Russians are a little weak... Man can hardly wait to get my hands on this.

You are seeing the game from the Russian side in the screen shot, so the values you see for the Russian are the ATTACK strengths. If you were to see the game from the German side you would see considerably higher defense strengths for the Russian units. Russian rifle divisions are individually poor on offense because they don't contain much organic artillery but are much better on defense due to having plenty of infantry and support weapons (mortars, machineguns, ATRs).

(in reply to critter)

Post #: 104

RE: War in the East... - 2/4/2010 2:05:34 AM

Neal_MLC

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/2/2010
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The more information I see about this game the more I want it. IE

"You are seeing the game from the Russian side in the screen shot, so the values you see for the Russian are the ATTACK strengths. If you were to see the game from the German side you would see considerably higher defense strengths for the Russian units. "

This little detail is incredible

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Post #: 105