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Conversation - 2/21/2009 6:24:06 PM   
John 3rd


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Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Here is northern China:






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Post #: 421
Conversation - 2/21/2009 6:37:41 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		This is 'known' intelligence of India. We have been flying recon from Port Blair with constant overflights of Columbo, Trincomalee, and Madras. The 4th Chutai rotates around to various locations.






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Post #: 422
Australia Invasion - 2/22/2009 3:04:36 PM   
Q-Ball


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Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		John and I are communicating on what the plan is on India. It's 3/4/42, and the Invasion is underway!

NOTE: A little false intel on the post title....

IJA Component

The following are on transports, and headed for a rendevous point. I estimate a landing on or about the 15th at this point:

IJA Divisions:
2nd
38th
48th
18th
Imperial Gds

4 Tank Rgts
2 Engineering Rgts
2 Army HQs
2 Base Forces
3 SNLF
4 Artillery Units

....that's quite alot of units. I counted about 170 transports with escorts. We carry with us approx. 75K in supplies.

Remaining at Singapore are 3 more divisions, plus more engineers and base forces, resting and prepping after the battle of Sinapore.

Naval Plan

We had many of our BB's damaged in an ill-advised bombardment of Singapore earlier, so our surface support is a bit skinny. We should have enough CV air though to keep the RN at bay, and do some damage if they choose to fight.

CARRIER FORCES:

CAR DIV 2: Soryu, Hiryu, Zuiho,Shoho
SUPPORT FORCE: Junyo,Ryujo,Hosho,Taiyo

The plan is to raid/attack ports on Ceylon, where elements of the RN have been spotted as docked. John is handling the tactics, but we will load extra Kates for this raid.

SURFACE FLEET:

BAT DIV 1 (Ukita): Nagato,Yamashiro, 2 CL, 6 DD

FIRST STRIKING FORCE (Tanaka): 4 CA,2CL,6 DD

ESCORT FORCE (Onoshi): 4 CL, 10 DD

We have a size-3 airbase now at Port Blair, headed to size-4. The RAF has been worked over pretty well in Burma, though they still have level bombers. We expect bombing attacks on the transports, but we will have at least some Zeros on LRCAP from the CVE. Some transport losses are acceptable.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 2/22/2009 3:10:33 PM >

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Kangaroo Fun! - 2/23/2009 2:08:03 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Brad has tasked me to handle the Clearing of the Japanese Left Flank for the Invasion of India.

Here are my Naval Assets:

CarDiv2--Hiryu/Soryu/Shoho/Zuiho (Adm Yamaguchi) with 2 CA, 1 CL, 8 DD
Support Force--Junyo/Ryujo/Hosho (Adm Yamada) with 1 CA, 1 CL, 7 DD
Cover Force--Taiyo with 4 DD
Raiding Force of 2 CL and 9 DD


CarDiv 2, Support Force, and Raiding Force will follow the moves detailed on the Screenshot. The Cover Force is too slow for effective help so it will travel with the Invasion force provding some CAP.

Day 1 & 2
As seen, the TF will move into position by a sprint run SE and then will close for Naval Attacks in the morning and a massed Port Strike at Columbo in the Afternoon. Junyo and Hosho will be using their planes for Naval Attacks period and all the rest hit Columbo. The Force carries 128 Zero, 38 Val, and and 143 Kate.

Day 3
The TF splits as the Support Force moves back to a position on the flank of the Invasion Force but with the ability to hit Trincomalee, Madras, and anything at sea. CarDiv2 moves around Ceylon and hunts anything at sea it can find...

The Raiding TF will be thrown at targets of opportunity...

Traveling behind the TF will be a separate TF of 3 AO and escorts.






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Post #: 424
Support the Roos - 2/23/2009 2:15:15 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		An additional part of this Operation in the IO is to force the Allies to spread and LOSE their fighters.  Rigth now there are a about 100 Figthers at Calcutta, 30-35 Fighters at Columbo (1 Squadron of AVG), and 25-30 Fighters (! Squadron of AVG) at Columbo. 

The Strike at Columbo SHOULD destroy the Fighters there. 

A next day Sweep by either of the CV TF should then deal with Trincomalee.  There will be 100 Betty at Port Blair at that point and they will then do a Port Strike against Trincomalee AFTER the Sweep to hit shipping there.

All this activity--plus the inbound Invasion Force should provoke the moving of some of those Fighters at Calcutta.  Last planned action is a large Land-Based Zero Sweep over Calcutta coupled with an AF attack by the Bettys.

IF this works, Brad's Invasion Force should be in good shape for its landings. 

IF----IF----IF

I am not marrying this plan.  Any different/better ideas?



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RE: Support the Roos - 2/23/2009 11:25:13 AM   
TenChiMato


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

An additional part of this Operation in the IO is to force the Allies to spread and LOSE their fighters.  Rigth now there are a about 100 Figthers at Calcutta, 30-35 Fighters at Columbo (1 Squadron of AVG), and 25-30 Fighters (! Squadron of AVG) at Columbo. 

The Strike at Colombo SHOULD destroy the Fighters there. 

A next day Sweep by either of the CV TF should then deal with Trincomalee.  There will be 100 Betty at Port Blair at that point and they will then do a Port Strike against Trincomalee AFTER the Sweep to hit shipping there.

All this activity--plus the inbound Invasion Force should provoke the moving of some of those Fighters at Calcutta.  Last planned action is a large Land-Based Zero Sweep over Calcutta coupled with an AF attack by the Bettys.

IF this works, Brad's Invasion Force should be in good shape for its landings. 

IF----IF----IF

I am not marrying this plan.  Any different/better ideas?




Hi,
Well, the more I read your plan, the more I feel uneasy about it for several reasons :
Naval war:
- It doesnt seem you have enough naval assets to efficiently (I mean you need/want to crush them brutally, rapidly) deal with the RN (assuming most of their capital ships are there and not in Oz with the Repulse TF) without risking a very damaging attrition war.
- You are gambling everything on the Colombo raid, if it fails (most RN units arent there, CAP wreck havock on your DB/TB, Colombo turned into an AA death trap) then what? Do you go hunting for the RN or do you concentrate all your forces to avoid being ambushed by fast surface forces on a suicide run? As it is you cannot do both, your covering forces are too light without close CV support and any damaged capital ship will considerably weaken your forces as you will also have to detach DDs to escort it back to safety. In fact you are doing a Midway style approach : like the japanese you are gambling on the fact your opponents are exactly where you expect them. What if they arent?

- I would approach Colombo by the West side, its a long way but by doing so you :
=> arrive by an unexpected side,
=> prevent any escape toward Bombay/Karachi
=> can easily intercept any fleeing/reinforcement TF
=> the area east of Ceylan is covered by your naval LBs, if they go that way then all the best

Air/Ground :
- where are you going to land? what are your first objectives? How will you divide your forces once you got ashore?
- follow-up force :
=>more LCUs, a couple of reserve divisions and tank regiment would be welcome as well as some (a lot of) paratroopers
=>Air HQ, more BF to land/airlift asap
=> reserve air units for your CV squadrons as a fight against the Brits CV risk attriting your units a lot, leaving you vulnerable to land based LB/TB, keep these DBs you switched for Kates nearby





< Message edited by TenChiMato -- 2/23/2009 1:16:13 PM >

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RE: Support the Roos - 2/23/2009 5:37:51 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Good Comments! Brad and I have a bunch of emails running right now bouncing ideas back-and-forth...

Anymore would be welcome.






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Post #: 427
RE: Support the Roos - 2/24/2009 3:21:41 PM   
TenChiMato


Posts: 52
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline 		imo your absolute first main goal should be to establish a base for your naval LBs and ground fighters. Your CV based squadrons are there to support your first strikes against coastal bases and hunt down the RN TFs. The sooner you put your land based squadrons to the front the better. Not to mention you need a base for your paratroopers.

the second thing is a size 3+ port for naval logistic and to speed up the unloading of your followup forces

all of this advocate for an early invasion of Ceylan to establish a forward air/naval base to support your invasion and also shield your flank. Of course the moment you do this they will most likely start withdrawing indians units inland and strengthen strongholds to slow you down so time is of the essence. You must do this in roughly 2-3days at best.
Alternatively you must land sufficiently away from Ceylan to avoid being within fast striking range of RN units, your choice. Will you spend 3days+ neutralizing Ceylan bases with your air and naval assets of will you spend 3days+ invading it with a couple of division?

In any case I would advise landing just 2-3+ division worth in the first wave depending on your first target with BF units just behind, everything else can wait, no need to disorganize more units than necessary. You can hold back the other transport TFs out of LB/recon range, and concentrate your naval assets on the defense of this reduced first wave. You dont have enough to protect everything as well as you would wish so concentrate.

So thats :
1st wave : 2+ assault divisions
close by - follow up : BF
2nd wave : tk rgts, paratroopers
3rd wave : HQs, reserve divisions
later on : logistic, artillery, engineers

just my 2cents Did I mention I wish you good luck?

< Message edited by TenChiMato -- 2/24/2009 3:45:49 PM >

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Post #: 428
RE: Support the Roos - 2/24/2009 5:03:20 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		This is my morning status report to Brad:

That was a decent turn to watch.

The CVs within the Strike Force will join-up tomorrow (3/9), refuel and head out.  Figure two days (3/10-11) to move and will strike Columbo on Day 3 (3/12).  I would get your MASSIVE Invasion Force organized and start it moving for the target on the 11th.  Probably won't be spotted until at least 12th or 13th.  There doesn't appear to be too much recon going on around the bay of Bengal.

Don't understand what they are doing in NZ.  I have a single Regiment whalloping that Brigade and nothing has come out to support it.  I'll keep driving the Cav Brig to destroy it and see what happens.  Have another TF of supply coming in and then should be solid in Gisbome for a while.  Am bringing in a large Naval Guard unit and then nothing more for Gisbome until China reinforcements arrive.

The KB is moving into the shipping lane between Aust and NZ.  Have the strong feeling that it is going to run into the Royal Navy.  Considering all 4 CV are together, that would be a rather pleasant thing...

I moved that remaining fragment of Zero Chutai from Magwe to Rangoon so you can fly it to Taiyo quickly.  Good thought moving that there.  Will add a few more Zeros to your CAP and THAT is a good thing.

Didn't fly a recon over Calcutta this turn but will with the next.  Will probably take a Zero Sweep of that target within the next few days.  Am concerned about Fighter losses there though.  REALLY want to try and break-up those bombers there before they have a chance to take crack at the Invasion Force.

Nice work getting the surrender at Medan.  Another 4,000 POW in the bag.  Will you take out Bankha quickly and, thus, Sumatra is clear of Allied troops?

TCM--Thanks for the thoughts.  Brad can you run though how you plan to assault Viza?

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RE: Support the Roos - 2/24/2009 5:07:10 PM   
veji1

 

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Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline 		hm.. I disagree quite strongly : In this game either you manage to destabilise your opponent by a big blow or (specially for the japs) you risk being stuck in a big slow fight... if the Japs go for ceylan they risk having the allies start the full run to Karachi straight away, in which case it will be mighty hard to dislodge them...

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RE: Support the Roos - 2/24/2009 5:10:16 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, I agree with veji1.  Get ashore at Viz, spread out, and you'll be taking plenty of good bases quickly.  You can handle Ceylon later if time permits.  Dispersal has risks, but consolidation has many benefits, at least in this instance.  Get ashore at Viz, as quickly as possible without risking undue disruption, run amock in interior India, and move in force to get behind the Allied troops in Burma/NE India.  Your opponents will be having heart attacks.

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Post #: 431
Kiwi Fun - 2/24/2009 5:10:19 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		A picture of the current situation in New Zealand:






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RE: Support the Roos - 2/24/2009 5:15:00 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

hm.. I disagree quite strongly : In this game either you manage to destabilise your opponent by a big blow or (specially for the japs) you risk being stuck in a big slow fight... if the Japs go for ceylan they risk having the allies start the full run to Karachi straight away, in which case it will be mighty hard to dislodge them...


Brad commented just a couple of days ago that Ceylon is being reinforced heavily. There are 8-9 units in Columbo and 4-5 in Trincomalee. We are happy to see that because it will simply become a POW Camp. The troops there (hopefully British) will be way out of position for what we are doing.

Veji/Dan are right on. We need to crush Viza, and MOVE--MOVE--MOVE before they can establish a coherant defense. I'll let Brad comment more on this. He has control of India so we'll see what the soon-to-be Master of India has to say...

Dan--working on your turn as soon as this posts...


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RE: Support the Roos - 2/24/2009 7:16:46 PM   
Q-Ball


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From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		The comments are dead-on; we have to get ashore quickly, then spread out. Getting ashore and capturing one base is everything; once that happens, we are on the offensive. I don't plan to unload all division, but will have them with me; if we get "stuck", we better reinforce quickly, or it will get very ugly fast.

Speed is key for several reasons:

1. Divide and trap British forces before they can come together
2. Stop Chinese from marching into India; keep them in Burma
3. Make as much progress as possible before 5/1/42, the upgrade date for the RAF. Until then, they have to live with alot of Buffalos, Mohawks, Lysanders, and other meat.

I had 2 large Bdes and tanks prepping for Ceylon, on the assumption that they would do what most players do, and evacuate Ceylon except for the static base forces. They appear to be reinforcing though. If we take Southern India and Addu Atoll, Ceylon will become a large POW camp. We will starve it and take it later.

PS, this is what we are doing in the Phillipines. We have one division there now, plus some Nav Gd units, and of course bombers. I don't anticipate attacking on Luzon until late 1942, when we will do so to collect the points for Auto Victory.


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Support the Bloody Roos - 2/26/2009 1:09:23 AM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		The screenshot shows the planned movement of everyone in the IO.

We have changed the Carrier Striking Force into a strong Flank Guard rather then free-lansing around looking for trouble.

There has been a marked increase in enemy Fighter aircraft and it will be the CVs job to knock them down. A Port strike will hit Trincomalee where a number of lighter ships are based (SS and DD). We hope to flush the Royal Navy out and SINK it. If they try to interfere with the landings then they will deal with the firepower of 4 CV and 2 CVL as well as numerous STF.






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< Message edited by John 3rd -- 2/26/2009 1:10:01 AM >

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Post #: 435
Kiwi Sunset? - 2/26/2009 5:57:57 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		March 12, 1942
Combat Report

India
The plans that were laid at the very onset of the war begin to fully manifest tomorrow in the Indian Ocean.  Brad has initiated the movement of a truly MASSIVE invasion force.  The various TF will move past Port Blair on March 13th.  Maybe we will get a day or two in before they are spotted...

The flanks of India will get punched tomorrow:

1.  Trincomalee Strike--The six Japanese CV operating in the Indian will solidly thump this base and--hopefully--sink several smaller ships in the Port.  Settings are:  Zero Range-6 CAP 50% with altitudes set from 14-18,000 Ft.  Val Range 5, 10% Search, 12,000 Ft, Naval Attack/AF Attack  Kate Range 6, 9,000 Ft, Naval Attack/Port Attack.

2.  Calcutta Attack--This base will get a double whammy.  A Zero Sweep (from Magwe) of 81 Fighters will hit first and then 90 Zero and 117 Betty (Rangoon) will hit the Air Field.  Goal is to cripple the Fighters flying CAP and smack the bomber force that is based there.

New Zealand
62,140  The South Seas Force easily drives the 3rd NZ Cav Brig back to one hex from Wellington.

Gisbome  A SNLF begins its trek to Hamilton to grab that small town in the center of the North Island.

SE Pacific
Suva  Members of the 56th Inf Div begin loading in their transports for the last scheduled Offensive Operation in the South Pacific.  They will be landing at Pago-Pago.

Savaii  This base 120 miles from Pago Pago was taken about 7 days ago and has already seen the AF expanded to Sz-2.  If needed the Construction Bn and Engineering Regiment present here can and will be used to augment the Pago-Pago attack.

DEI
Bankha  Base surrenders with 3,900 POW

Singkep  Base surrenders a fragment with 20 POW





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RE: Kiwi Sunset? - 2/26/2009 6:03:42 AM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		We have a new division of labor reflecting the current strategic realities.  The world is divided as follows:

Brad--India, Burma, Australia, DEI and Japanese Economy
John--China and the entire Pacific

Pacific Decisions:
1.  We have decided that there will be no more ground reinforcements pulled from DEI/Burma/India for the Pacific.  Any reinforcements will only come from China, Manchuria, and/or Japan. 
2.  We are going to beef up the Japanese LBA in the Pacific by adding several Daitai of Zero and Betty.
3.  As soon as India Operation is solidly underway, CarDiv2 (Hiryu, Soryu, Zuiho, and Shoho) will move east to strengthen Pacific Fleet. 
4.  If they are not needed the Junyo and Hiyo will move east as well in mid-to-late April.




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Clearing the Flanks - 2/26/2009 5:23:00 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Combat Report
March 13, 1942

The Japanese plan works out quite well for hitting both Calcutta and Trincomalee.

Calcutta
The Zero Sweep hits the airspace over Calcutta right on schedule.  78 Zero from 3 Daitai are arrayed at 14-15-18,000 Ft.  They are met by a large force of 46 British and Dutch Fighters.  Unfortunately for the pilots they are mainly flying Buffalo and Brewsters with just 10 Hurricanes.  The Zeros rapidly dive into the fight and score decisively and often.  At the end of the furball, the Japanese tally 12 Zeros lost (8 Pilots) in exchange for 29 Buffalo/Brewsters and 5 Hurricanes. 

This near perfect Sweep is not a complete success due to porr weather over Rangoon cancelling the planned attack of 80 Zero and 110 Betty.  Too bad but a solid start here.

Trincomalee
The Japanese are not spotted as the CVs arrive 4 Hexes SE of Trincomalee.  There is no shipping within 6 hexes to draw a morning strike so the planned after strike goes in. 

The Strike Force is made up of 61 Zero, 34 Val, and 139 Kates.  They are met by 33 Fighters flying CAP over the repair yards and harbor.  These Fighters are better quality the what was fough over Calcutta because 24 of them wear the distinctive Flying Tiger insignia.  Despite facing the Tigers, the Zeros--once again--prove their mettle in combat.  For a loss of 7 Zero (but only 3 pilots) the defenders lose 14 AVG and 7 Blenheims. 

With the air clear, the Dive Bombers go after the AF while the Kates attack the ships in the repair yard and the ones snuggled up to the pairs.  Minor damage is done to the AF for the cost of 1 Val.  The shipping, on the other, gets crushed.  There are 4 US SS and 2 Dutch SS in repair with another 5-6 ships in the harbor.  The Kates all attack with 800 Kg Bombs and they crush the shipping present.  As they wing their way home, the pilots verify seeing 3 US and 1 Dutch SS sink as well as a Dutch Minelayer.  The other 2 SS are in sinking condition and 3 MSW are also hit.  This result for the cost of 1 Kate.

Score for Day 1 of clearing the Flanks:
Japanese lose 19 Zero (11 pilots),1 Val, and 1 Kate.

The Allies lose 58 Fighters total and a Recon plane.

4 SS and a ML are sunk.

This is the email I just sent Brad with planning for tomorrow:

OK.  I stared at the screen and map for a while before making a major decision.

It follows that the Brits will TRY to pull out their fighting ships from Columbo.  The crazier move will be to remain exactly where they are.  I've decided to plan on BOTH Possibilities. 

1.  The CVs move to SW of Ceylon same set of Naval Attack/Port Attack (Columbo).  I'm taking a calculated risk in lowering CAP on Junyo and Ryujo from 50% down to 30% to add fighter strength to the attack. 

The REAL move is to swing the STF I have with me of 2 CL and 9 DD to a high speed run towards Columbo to--hopefully--catch the Fleet coming out of the Port.  While losing ships is a strong probability, ANY damage inflicted/ops points used will SLOW THEM DOWN for the CVs to then hit them.

2.  If they don't try to escape then we will hit them in the harbor.  Casaulties might be bad but I think we must take the risk to keep the landing as smooth as possible.  Should muster a strike of 65 Z, 30 V, and 120 Kates.  It SHOULD be enough to blast through CAP and do some serious damage.

This is my thinnking in the west.

The attack on Calcutta in the east would have been PERFECT yesterday if the Bombing Strike had flown from Rangoon.  Cannot control bad weather.  Your decision to add all the bombers from Magwe into the attack is excellent.  Calcutta will be hit by two strikes each escorted by 70-80 Zeros and having 110-150 bombers.  The combined attack--if successful--should CRUSH the AF. 

There is the real chance we guarantee the Invasion's success tomorrow by doing both these attacks.  BANZAI!



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Post #: 438
RE: Clearing the Flanks - 2/26/2009 6:01:50 PM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		Don't forget Dacca. I use that as my co-primary AF for bombers along with Calcutta. 

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Post #: 439
RE: Clearing the Flanks - 2/26/2009 6:35:05 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Good Day Michael.  They had bombers at Dacca and then moved them to Calcutta.  Good idea to check out the base though.  I will NOT be using the magic cursor!



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RE: Clearing the Flanks - 2/26/2009 8:23:46 PM   
Q-Ball


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From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Combat Report March 14th

Calcutta

They failed to move the bombers after yesterday's sweep, and today a large IJA bombing raid from Magwe wrecked carnage! 22 Hurricanes, 22 Blenheims, and 8 Dutch Buffalos destroyed in exchange for 7 Zeros and 5 Oscars. We need to take a dent out of those Blenheims prior to landing at Viz.

Vizingapatam Forces

There are 5 Divisions, plus all sorts of ancillary units, on the way to Vizingapatam. 4 units are now reported there; I think they got an intel report. I have asked John, but I still say we go, we have alot of troops, naval and air support, and it's a clear hex.

They have not yet spotted the convoys, they are currently 2 hexes NNW of Port Blair.

Ceylon Raid?

John outlined a raid on Colombo yesterday, but bad weather cancelled all strikes. The surface TF found nothing other than a sub, and the port appears fairly empty from search aircraft.

I told John, I think he chased the RN out of the Bay of Bengal. There are 9 Sea Gladiators on CAP every turn at Madras, but it's hard to tell if that's a docked HMS Hermes, or just the airgroup. I think the latter, since only half the sqdrn would be on CAP while in port. We haven't seen any Sea Hurricanes anywhere, which would have indicated the presence of the the other RN CV (Formidable is due to arrive any day at Aden, to make it 2 CVs). We know BC Repulse and at least 3 D-Class CLs are not in the IO (they are in New Zealand).

It would probably be unwise or suicidal to take on that kind of IJN CV force directly, so they must have bugged out. If I saw 135 Kates hitting Trincomalee like last turn, I would be leaving quickly too.


DEI

Not sure if John mentioned, but the last outpost in the DEI fell on the 10th, at Bankha. There are troops at Pamakasan, but we are leaving those alone for now in a self-guarding POW camp. They have no supply source, so they can rot.

Elsewhere in the PI, we are prepping a Bde for a landing at Iloilo, and a Nav Gd for Cebu, in a cleanup campaign there. Have to clear those hexes, because they have a supply source in each. Cagayan remains an isolated POW Camp/training range.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 2/26/2009 8:45:15 PM >

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RE: Clearing the Flanks - 2/26/2009 9:32:28 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
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Status: offline 		Where is Mr. Beaufort V-IX?? Any AF size 4 and any ships that get within 4 hexes of them are at risk. They have over 100 available and I would have upgraded non-British bombers to have some of them ready.

What are the AF sizes of Hyberabad and Diamond Harbor?? If Hyberabad has gone from AF 3(3) to something larger, it "may" mean they are using that for a possible AF for bomber of various types. They should have added 3 Aviation Rgt (Aviation Support 270) and 2 BF (Aviation Support 90 plus some "nasty" AA guns) to India's defense.

What happened to the CD guns at Rangoon?? If they were smart, they would have shipped those out in the first few days of war and placed them at Viza (I would have).

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RE: Clearing the Flanks - 2/26/2009 9:57:43 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Where is Mr. Beaufort V-IX?? Any AF size 4 and any ships that get within 4 hexes of them are at risk. They have over 100 available and I would have upgraded non-British bombers to have some of them ready.

What are the AF sizes of Hyberabad and Diamond Harbor?? If Hyberabad has gone from AF 3(3) to something larger, it "may" mean they are using that for a possible AF for bomber of various types. They should have added 3 Aviation Rgt (Aviation Support 270) and 2 BF (Aviation Support 90 plus some "nasty" AA guns) to India's defense.

What happened to the CD guns at Rangoon?? If they were smart, they would have shipped those out in the first few days of war and placed them at Viza (I would have).


These are great tactical questions!

1. The CD guns surrendered at Rangoon. No help there!
2. Haven't seen ANY Beauforts. The only way they could be there is if they moved the RAAF Hudson units there early. We have seen alot of Hudsons on the North Coast of OZ about a month ago, which was too late to stage to India. We have seen alot of Hudsons over New Zealand, about 30 or so. We captured the southern DEI by the end of December, which would make staging from Australia impossible after this date for anything but 4E. I suspect at most there is 1 16-plane sqdrn of Beauforts, (the RAAF unit that starts in Khota) but I bet not even that. I think those guys moved to Darwin.

Beauforts are important, one reason it's alot easier to do this before May 1,1942, when the RAF can upgrade.

3. Hyderabad and Diamond Harbor are still 3 (3) and 1 (6) respectively. Madras is the only size 4+ airbase near Viz, and it's 5 hexes away (outside all fighter range but Buff and Curtis). They haven't done any airbase building it seems (probably trenches instead).
4. We do need to keep at least 3 hexes away from size-2s, I know they have Wildebeests and Swordfish handy. Viz is size 1.

I am concerned about the ground resistance at Viz. They will get a few transport hits, but I don't think they can stop us from getting ashore. They can only stop us if there is a signficant, prepped, dug-in force at Viz.

They have lost over 80 Hurris so far in the war, and 68 Blenheims; these numbers mean they are probably not full strength there. They do have all 44 Wellingtons, so those are likely there. The AVG has lost 103 Curtis, so it's also depleted. Overall, the RAF has had serious losses, which blunts it's ability to do much with our invasion.


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RE: Clearing the Flanks - 2/26/2009 11:08:59 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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< Message edited by John 3rd -- 2/27/2009 7:00:52 AM >

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RE: Clearing the Flanks - 2/26/2009 11:14:45 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		I would an additional concern to Brad's list:  B-17s.  We have not SEEN a 4EB since pounding the crap out of them in December and early-January.

We didn't get the double whammy AGAIN with Rangoon socked in with weather for the 2nd straight day.  Ggrrr...

As per Brad's request I have ordered the CVs to move east and then strike Madras day after tomorrow.  I would REALLY expect the Invasion Force to be spotted tomorrow with it being 3 days out at that point.

Elsewhere in the Pacific:
New Zealand  Gisbome went to AF-3 last turn and I ordered down 2 Daitai of betty to fillout the AF.  They get the immediate order to attack Wellington's AF.  Don't know what is there so I set the 2 Zero Daitai to CAP 50% so there is a strong Escort to accompany the raid.

Pago Pago  The 56th Inf Div is moving to this final target.  Troops were prepped at about 35% prior to loading.  Naval Search picked up an AK at Pago this turn and it will be hit by a STF tomorrow. 


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OK...now what? - 2/27/2009 4:48:13 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Brad and I have one heck of a discussion going on for strategy with India about to happen.  This is the series of emails so far for the morning:

From Bard:
It should be obvious now what is up.  They are concentrating Air at Madras, away from those bombers over Calcutta and Dacca.  Madras is the only AF that can interdict the invasion.  Hopefully that will be taken care of tommorow.

I have several floatplanes that are going to recon Viz tommorow; the day after, we are going to bombard, and we are going to land the day after that.  I am hoping there are no CD guns there; if not we can use DD's.  Only way to find out unfortunately is to send 1 DD in to bombard with the cruisers.  I'll make it an old one, so if it gets shot up we don't lose anything. 

We need to look at where all the ground troops are going.  I think we are going to need alot for India, basically all we can scrape together.  I think there are 2 Bdes in China coming out, I would advocate sending them to India.  But let's look at troops commitments around the map.  Against the USN, we probably need small garrisons, using airpower to guard those areas, and have a ready reserve of troops. 

The most likely places for early Allied landings are Wake, Tarawa, and Exmouth. 

I would think about grabbing Thursday Is.  That base is a pest if the Allies reinforce it.

I think Pago Pago is going to be a cakewalk.  After that, 56th Division can probably do one of 3 things:
1.  Go to handy port and become mobile reserve
2.  Prep for Canton Is.
3.  Land on NZ, see if we can take North Island

Auckland is probably out of reach though, but I think they are sufficiently freaked out at the moment, witness the Hudsons all over the place there.

My Reply:
The actual range to Viza is 13 from BOTH locations so I left everything the same.  Moved some Vals up to Taung Gyi to hit Lashio for training.  Don't think they should take some losses.  If they do then we can pull them back and transfer them back to the CVs.

We need GOOD weather!!!  Will find out about Madras. 

There are currently 3 Inf Brig in China all heading for Shanghai.  One is about to FINALLY leave the Pucheng hex, another is about 4 hexes from Shanghai, and the last is moving east from Central China.  My thoughts were to use these units to provide the punch for taking the North Island. 

If you think moving them to India would be more appropriate then that might be true and it needs to be thought about.

The 56th could help in New Zealand too.  As you point out their will be a fairly short window of opportunity.  The Betty and Zero can help some flying out of Gisbome.  I am going to TRY and hit Wellington with enough troops to make a real crack at it.  This should give an indication as to what might be possible.

If there isn't much hope then we do a pullout before we run the great risk of losing all of it. 

I will move this discussion over to the AAR for people to comment.  Might be really fun to see what they say.

His Comment:
This question really speaks to how to defend the Empire.  I don't think that's an easy question.  The most complicated aspect is Atolls, for example.

Take the Gilberts.  Building Fort Tarawa is obvious. What do you do with the rest?

Do you leave it alone?  That saves time and troops, but it also leaves the area vulnerable to a neat Allied tactic of:
1.  Bomb Tarawa to bits with 4E.
2.  Land several SeeBees at 2 nearby Atolls, with enough troops to guard it
3.  Build airbases
4.  Bomb Tarawa constantly with 2E; train your pilots; move on to the next chain.  Tarawa starves.

Do you build up the neighboring atolls?  Well, the advantage is that makes it much harder to shut down the airfields; you have to take out several, not just Tarawa.  But on the flip side, we have to defend them in force, or give them an instant airbase if they do get troops in.

Ultimately what makes it harder is that once we lose control of the air, we lose control of the base, no matter what land defenses we have.  It's just a matter of how much Allied effort it takes. 

Until about 7/42, we have enough airpower to maintain a defensive perimeter, regardless of boots on the ground.  USN CV's cannot, under any circumstances, sail within 8 hexes of a size-4 Japanese airbase without seriously being exposed.  (this is Zero range).  Once they get enough 4Es together, they have a chance; once they get P-38s in 10/42, they can go on the offensive, because those ****ers can clear the skies.  They also can take more risks with CV's, because they have reinforcements coming in 1943. 

So we have to think about outer,inner perimeters, and the ultimate defensibility of points.  I think, for example, that Gisbourne is impossible to defend, though that expedition has been great, because it's really thrown them off.  Once they get 4Es to Auckland, though, it's over for us there.  Ideally, they organize a massive attack for it, and then find it empty.


I think that this is a very good discussion and would like to see what people have to say...



< Message edited by John 3rd -- 2/27/2009 5:38:26 PM >

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Current IO Situation: - 2/27/2009 4:58:14 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		The map clearly shows the massed firepower that is about to descend upon India.






Attachment (1)

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RE: Current IO Situation: - 2/27/2009 8:47:08 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
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Status: offline 		My division of force would be:

Madras - get one Bde to a full Division to lay siege only
Hyberabad - one to two Divisions. I would have made this the reserves for the SW part of India
Hex 21,13 - the crossroads 5 hexes from Bombay and it would stop any troops coming and going from there.
Bhopal & Cawnpore - Each would get a Bde to replace the Tk Rgt that ran out initially
Asansol & Rangpur & the hex just SW of Rangpur - This is were my main efforts would be to cut off Calcutta and all those troops in Burma.
Other bases within this bubble would get attention briefly.

John/Brad - Did you guys send in a few Tks worth of Oil in the follow up forces?? Asansol has 450 HI and other places like Hyderabad have HI. It would be nice to get the added supplies from them. Have a few Tks stop off in northern Sumatra to fill up.

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Post #: 448
RE: Current IO Situation: - 2/27/2009 10:43:04 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

My division of force would be:

Madras - get one Bde to a full Division to lay siege only
Hyberabad - one to two Divisions. I would have made this the reserves for the SW part of India
Hex 21,13 - the crossroads 5 hexes from Bombay and it would stop any troops coming and going from there.
Bhopal & Cawnpore - Each would get a Bde to replace the Tk Rgt that ran out initially
Asansol & Rangpur & the hex just SW of Rangpur - This is were my main efforts would be to cut off Calcutta and all those troops in Burma.
Other bases within this bubble would get attention briefly.

John/Brad - Did you guys send in a few Tks worth of Oil in the follow up forces?? Asansol has 450 HI and other places like Hyderabad have HI. It would be nice to get the added supplies from them. Have a few Tks stop off in northern Sumatra to fill up.


These are great thoughts, but we have to get ashore first. John is running the turn now, and will report, but we did finally see some air attacks, including PTs and B-17s. They didn't hit much of anything, so we figure to unload without much damage tommorow.

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Scary Image - 2/28/2009 12:08:37 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		A turn doesn't start too well when you see this:






No harm done and 2 PTs sunk but it certainly got my attention!


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< Message edited by John 3rd -- 2/28/2009 12:09:16 AM >

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