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RE: The Tour - 3/26/2009 2:18:25 AM   
ny59giants


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quote:

Nice Betty attack at Canton.


I would think about a strike at Palmyra with carriers and a strong bombardment TF before hitting Canton. This would limit what they could send to Canton for LBA from Pearl.

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Post #: 601
RE: The Tour - 3/26/2009 2:53:41 AM   
Hornblower


Posts: 1361
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From: New York'er relocated to Chicago
Status: offline 		is there any signifcant base other San Francisco that you don't hold at the moment?

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Post #: 602
RE: The Tour - 3/26/2009 4:11:33 AM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Combat Report
May 8, 1942

Just a quick update on action in India.

POONA falls today, to a 2 division attack. There are now 34 units reported at Bombay. If those are real units, and not fragments, no way we are going to dislodge them. I am moving the 2 divisions in, we will send over some "intelligence shells" to find out what's there, and probably pin them in place, as it's an urban hex. The other 3 divisions heading to Bombay will flow around it like water around a rock and head toward Karachi.

BHOPAL should fall tommorow; this is the real axis of advance. Once that falls, they will have to abandon Cownpore and Lucknow, and that appears to be happening already.

NE INDIA is empty; I am sending a unit up there to round up the local British officials and cut the escape routes from Burma

Although I took Poona, my Zero escort for the bombers over Poona took a beating; I have lost a ton of fighter pilots in India. I am rebuilding those units in China, and just admonished John for putting rookie pilots into veteran units, even a CV unit, which you should NEVER do.

Elsewhere, it's pretty quiet; Bettys attacked at Canton again, didn't get a hit, but they are sending a message about the safety of that island to Allied shipping.





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< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 3/26/2009 4:20:30 AM >

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RE: The Tour - 3/26/2009 4:12:44 AM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
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From: Chicago, Illinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

How many turns/day are you guys getting in for this game?  It seems like a fast pace.


This is a good question. We're doing 2 turns a day pretty consistently. We started around X-Mas and have completed 5+ months in game terms, so that's about right.

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Post #: 604
RE: The Tour - 3/26/2009 7:37:34 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I will defend my sacred Honor here by saying I loaded up Akagi's Daitai because they have been training over Auckland and will now spend another 2+ weeks hitting Christ Church and then farther south.  At the end of that time they will be fine!

India is looking pretty sweet at the moment.  I am willing to predict the majority of units in Bombay are fragments...

Started loading 3 Chinese Brigades for Canton today at Shanghai.  They all have Canton prep at 8-10 and by the time they reach Kwajalein it will be in the 30s.  Should be around 50 at the time of landing.  I like the hit Palmyra and then take Canton.  Given time as things develop I will develop some sort of grandoise plan of attack.  It will be GLORIOUS!!! 

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Post #: 605
RE: The Tour - 3/26/2009 2:21:57 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		John is probably right about most of the Bombay units being fragments, we'll find out soon. Most of the units in Burma have "fragment friends" at Bombay, and no doubt they are being pulled out AGAIN for Aden. It actually wouldn't be the worst thing if we pushed all the units in Burma into trail/jungle hexes; I would almost rather them die slowly than die right away, so they can't be rebuilt.

This is also why I like isolating the PI. As soon as we destroy those units, Macarthur's entire army starts to rebuild.

As a side note, I haven't played that much, but I am amazed how easy it is to take New Zealand. John hasn't had more than 900 AV or so committed to that effort. I don't know why EVERY Japanese player wouldn't attempt it, because that commitment doesn't rule out a major push elsewhere.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 3/26/2009 2:23:00 PM >

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Post #: 606
RE: The Tour - 3/26/2009 2:38:46 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, New Zealand is very difficult to defend for the Allies early in the game.

NZ, Australia, and all those important Pacific Island bases (Societies, Suva, Pago Pago, Canton, Palmyra, etc.) have next to nothing.  If the Jap player has the KB operating in the area (say out of Suva), it becomes very difficult for the Allied player to push reinforcements into places like NZ.  There are only so many transports and so many troops, great distances, and the need to ensure Hawaii's safety.

IE, the Japs can go wherever they want to, but they don't have enough time to take every easy base.  Against an experienced Jap foe, the Allied player just has to suck it up and hope he can protect a few bases pending things slowing down toward the second half of '42.

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Post #: 607
RE: The Tour - 3/26/2009 2:53:40 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		As the Allies, you can do something about it starting, oh, about May or June 1942. Which is why I am paranoid. Another key date is 7/42, when the Allies get the TBF, a big upgrade over the TBDs

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Post #: 608
RE: The Tour - 3/26/2009 3:07:00 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		The Allies are much stronger by June of '42, but Jap power is peaking at that point.  If the Japs have been unlucky in battle or are widely dispersed so that the Allies can pick a point to give battle where they have superior numbers for that particular operation, the Allies are dangerous.  But the Japs can usually remain on the offensive probably through mid- or late-summer, although the Allied threat continues to mount throughout that period.

I'm not sure I understand the thinking behind the operations against Canton, Palmyra, etc.  You guys put most of your emphasis on India, with outstanding results, and also picked up NZ, a major feather in your CAP.  It seems to me that you are determined to continue thrusting forward until you meet with decisive and unhappy results somewhere.   Why walk into a Midway or Guadalcanal?  Why not instead continue to focus on India, NZ (to the extent necessary), keeping the KB rested and hidden as a force-in-being (oh, how that's a nightmare for the Allies), and concentrating on supplying and fortifying the islands you hold in the Pacific?

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 609
RE: The Tour - 3/26/2009 5:39:51 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
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From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Combat Report
May 9th

John may comment more, but pretty good turn for the Empire.

China
Pucheng FINALLY falls, netting 13,000 Chinese prisoners. John did a shock attack; last turn during the bombing runs there was no flak, so it was obvious they were out of supplies. Now they are POWs.

India
BHOPAL falls today to shock attack; the door is wide open to central India. If they have any brains, they will be moving everyone on the Ganges to Delhi ASAP, and abandoning Lucknow/Benares/Cownpore.

Burma
We should arrive with about 600 AV or so tommorow at Mandalay. Although we are outnumbered, I suspect those troops are low on supplies; I guess we'll find out their condition.

The stack of units between Lashio and Myiktinya does not appear to be shooting back at our planes. I am flying very low tommorow over them to see if they are out of supplies. 10 Chinese units are at Tatung, maybe they are assembling a rescue force for Burma.



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Post #: 610
Go West Young Man - 3/26/2009 10:09:16 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		As Brad suggested I do have additional comments:

1.  Bhopal--The units driven from that hex retreated NORTH towards Lucknow.  It completely leaves the door open to grab Armahabad (whatever the name of that town is NW of Bombay.  If Brad can get there fast then Bombay and all those units/fragments are cutoff by land.  If we can move raiding TF into Mangalore then that will cut the sea route and all that is left is the AF.  A good, solid Bombardment by our BBs might cause some chaos and then suddenly Bombay is in deep doo-doo.

2.  Auckland--The harbor now has the KB in it with 3 AR doing repair work.  Am loading 9th Ind Brig, South Seas Force, Tone Hv Gun REg, and 14th Army HQ for the trip to Picton.  Started bombing Crist Church pretty hard today (May 9th).  Figure at least two weeks of unineterrupted training for the air units present there.

3. Canton--Spotted 14 P-38 there today.  I HATE THOSE PLANES!  Following the Mangalore example of putting Raiding Forces together, I order 1 CA and 7 DD at Rabaul to go to Suva.  A force of 3 CA, 1 CL, and 3 DD depart Wellington with the same destination.  The Tf will combine and move to Pago Pago to make the occasional attack at Canton.

Ordered TK to go to Pago pago as well so we have a decent fuel supply.

4.  Brad mentioned about a month ago that we were critically short of fuel.  Things are straightening out nicely there right now.  In the Pacific I now have reasonable amounts of fuel cached at Truk, Kawjalein, Rabaul, Noumea, and Wellington.  Fuel TF are presently on the way to Pago Pago, Suva, and Auckland.

5.  Oil--We have some oil arriving at Madras and Daimond Harbor to fuel our new Heavy Industry sites.  Picking up over 1,000 HI will make a real difference in our economy and should allow us to begin stockpiling once we finish the initial industrial expansion.


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Post #: 611
RE: Go West Young Man - 3/27/2009 3:11:56 AM   
Q-Ball


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From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		We are channelling everyone as John says through Bhopal, with tanks leading ahead to Ahmanabad or whatever that town is, and Jaipur. They are clearly running along the Ganges. Need to keep this up to Karachi.

Setback in Burma; Mandalay is going to be tougher than we thought, but I bet we get it soon.

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Go West Young Man - 3/27/2009 4:48:43 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Here is Burma:






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Post #: 613
China Operations - 3/27/2009 5:05:08 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Here are the current China Ops that are running...






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Post #: 614
India Operations - 3/27/2009 5:26:42 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Brad has been describing so I thought I would place the current map in so you can see the situation:






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Post #: 615
RE: India Operations - 3/27/2009 11:17:56 AM   
Rainer79

 

Posts: 603
Joined: 10/31/2008
From: Austria
Status: offline 		I think China might be easier if you do not buy out the brigades there. I know, the temptation to transfer all those lovely cheap units is great, but may ultimately lead to bigger problems later on. In my game I just bought out a single one and even that got immediately replaced by a transfer from the Kwantung Army.

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Post #: 616
RE: India Operations - 3/27/2009 11:58:47 AM   
veji1

 

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline 		you should stockpile PPs and buy out a bunch of unit after achieving your goals in China.. I don't get the diversions to Lanchow and Honan... by only doing diversions there you end up having to keep lots of troops there.. What you can do is stage a progressive approach, ie not assault Honan to early but isolate it and then besiege it, and once you have taken another objective turn to it... You don't need 2 diversions, one is way enough.

You should bring back all your forces messing around near Lanchow, and focus on isolating and then taking Honan... once this is done you can either proceed to attack the rest of northern China or send troops down south...

Event the Honan operation doesn't make much sense regarding your main objective down south.. what's the point of a diversion if the ennemy can't divert forces to face it.. Northern China is isolated and has to fend off for itself, all you have to do is prepare at minimum cost to you for the next operations there (just isolate Honan and start besieging it with minimum troops) and send all the rest you can to you southern attack..

You are doing what you did in India to begin with, too many axis of advance, between the main thrust near Ichang, the secondary thrust west of Pucheng and the 2 diversions... Just focus on your main operation and do the minimum elsewhere...

(in reply to Rainer79)
Post #: 617
RE: India Operations - 3/27/2009 3:06:45 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		We have had a couple problems in China. One is supplies. The troops at Pucheng are in poor shape, due to lack of supplies. A couple supply convoys are unloading, that should hopefully take care of that.

John just crushed the airbase at Changsha last turn, with a great attack. I would advocate destroying all the resources in that hex. We can safeguard China merely by destroying supply sources. Otherwise, they can fully rebuild all the units they destroyed. If the Allies have no supplies, we can hold China forever, no matter what they do.

We both agree that we are not pulling any more troops from China. We are going to save up the PPs and buy a couple Kwantung divisions, even though they are very expensive. But buying from there doesn't subtract from any other effort (as long as we stay +8000 of course)

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Post #: 618
RE: India Operations - 3/27/2009 3:16:33 PM   
Panther Bait


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Status: offline 		John,

This is the BigB scenario, right? 

I have a game of BigB going right now (v1.4 I think) and the Chinese are very strong.  I started out similar to you, cleared South China and Pucheng.  Took Yenan then Honan.  Then I hit the brick wall.  My opponent and I are in late Nov. 1942.  Currently there are something like 32 units at Changsa, 25 at Sian, 10 at Hengchow, 20-25 at Wuchow,  and maybe 15 at Kweichow.  And with the Chinese they are almost all combat units (although some are certainly guerilla units will little AV), not a lot of chinese base forces.  Changsa has over 6000 chinese AV at it.  And they are pretty much all sitting behind level 9 forts by now.  I have not pulled anything out of China and have actually pulled Kwantung units INTO China, and I am completely stymied.  He has also moved about 6 Chinese units into Burma to hold Lashio.

I recently changed over to bombing his resources/HI because I was getting worried that the Chinese might get restless and come after me in China. I won't be taking and using any of his Chinese production centers anytime soon, and I would rather make his supply situation tougher for offenses.  At least the Chinese defend a lot better then they attack.

So I guess the point of all of this is, you are correct not to underestimate the Chinese in BigB.  They are a very tough nut to crack.

Mike

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Post #: 619
RE: India Operations - 3/27/2009 3:59:22 PM   
Q-Ball


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From: Chicago, Illinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait
I recently changed over to bombing his resources/HI because I was getting worried that the Chinese might get restless and come after me in China. I won't be taking and using any of his Chinese production centers anytime soon, and I would rather make his supply situation tougher for offenses.  At least the Chinese defend a lot better then they attack.

Mike


I suggested this strategy to John; we need to destroy supply sources, and also bring in the troops from up north. I hate having troops too far off the rail lines and roads, where they can't react to a problem, or participate in an attack.


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Post #: 620
RE: India Operations - 3/27/2009 5:02:35 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Good sets of comments fellas.  These are my plans for China at present:

1.  With the Chinese discovery of my true offensive in the last couple of days I will be pulling troops back towards Paotow and Yenen.  Will let them fill back out and rest before launching a new operation against Honan.

2.  Am attacking across the river from Ichang and will drive south along the west bank towards Wenchow and Changsha.

3.  Will bomb the living Hell out of Changsha's resources.  They should run out of supply pretty fast with India and Burma gone so that will help.

4.  Will move to capture Kanshien and finish clearing out the south.

These operation should be viewed not in weeks but months.  They are the longer-view strategy for keeping the Chinese pinned and emasculated.

I want to work in China because (as we have SOOOO discussed in the Forlorn Hopes AAR) I suck at land combat.  This will be a learning opportunity for me and, thus, will take any advice from anyone that help me improve my game skills in this area.

EDIT: Forgot to add that nothing more comes out of China in the foreseeable future. The 3 Inf Brigades I just pulled shall be it. We'll draw from Kwantung.

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Post #: 621
RE: India Operations - 3/27/2009 5:14:37 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		The PP costs are VERY expensive, but we have 4-5 Divisions available to pull without hurting operations anywhere.

The 9th and 20th from Kwantung (selected because they have 80 exp, so start off as crack units)

The 52,53,54 Divisions in Home Islands.

It will take 5 weeks per division or so, but we can eventually buy them all.

The only other unit is the 1 VM at Hanoi, but it makes me nervous to completely strip the Vietnamese border. I feel better with that unit in Hanoi.

We are in a long stretch where Japan gets no Combat unit reinforcements. Too bad all those units in 1944 can't be accelerated. John knows, the only place Japan gets stronger as the game goes on is in Infantry.

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Post #: 622
RE: India Operations - 3/27/2009 5:19:03 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Got that right Sir!  I haven't checked email yet this morning and need to jump on our 2x2 morning turn. 

Just updated in Forlorn Hopes my abject depression and thanks for various people's support.  Need to check Dan's thoughts there.

Got a late start today with our carpet of white.  On the POSITIVE side we got nearly 14" wonderful inches of wet snow yesterday and the town is mostly shutdown.  VERY NICE! 

Let me see what our evil enemies are doing back in May 1942---far more enjoyable then Dec 1944!!!

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Post #: 623
RE: The Tour - 3/28/2009 8:30:34 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Combat Report
May 13,14, 1942

Interesting couple days in India.

The Allies are making a stand at Bombay. Intel reported 34 units, and we sent over "intelligence shells" yesterday to count the troops. There are over 100K Allies, included most of the units from Malaya, which are mostly rebuilt from fragments. I have 2 divisions in the urban hex, the idea is to pin all those troops there, and push everywhere else for Karachi.

Bhopal fell a few days back, and we are approaching Ahmadebad and Jaipur, which are both empty. Other units appear to be fleeing through Delhi to the west, probably to make a stand at Karachi.

In BURMA, we attack Mandalay tommorow.

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Post #: 624
RE: The Tour - 3/28/2009 9:01:59 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Any guess as to the Allied AV at Bombay?  If they have so much there, will they be fairly weak at Karachi?  Any guess as to the ultimate outcome in India?  Sounds like the best the Allies can hope for is to hold both Bombay and Karachi and to begin their comeback from there; and the worst case might be to lose one or the other.

The Allies haven't suffered a crippling blow by any means.  They can certainly come back from this unless something disastrous happens to trigger auto-victory.

The real challenge for the Japs is to craft a defense that, if possible, persuades the Allies to slog their way across India fighting as they go, rather than doing an end run around India that puts them closer to the SRA and renders the Japs in India irrelevant.  So, after awhile, you guys need to "play dumb" in India to create weaknesses that entice the Allies into concentrating there.

Or, at least I think that's what you want to do.

Good luck!

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Post #: 625
RE: The Tour - 3/28/2009 9:10:33 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Thinking more about auto-victory, the Allies may be sweating as you go deeply into '42.  You've taken Noumea, which hurts them badly (its point value is high), and the loss of so many bases in India and NZ will be a blow.  Also, the fact that the Japs haven't lost any major ships is a blow. 

So, the prospect of auto-victory may keep the Allies "honest" by forcing them to look for opportunities to score points either by taking some bases or inflicting damage to Jap aircraft or ships.  Without that incentive, they could continue to sit back and wait until they get more ships, men, and better planes in '43.  They may not have that luxury in this game because you'll have them backed them up against the auto-victory wall.   So, Jap tactics and victories may ultimately force the Allies out of "Sir Robin" before they wanted to come out. 

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Post #: 626
RE: The Tour - 3/28/2009 10:08:58 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Good thoughts Dan, even if they can hold Karachi and Bombay, I think we'll gain alot from this. The final tally is still to be calculated, but there are Allied forces on Ceylon and in Burma that are in real danger of destruction, not to mention some forces we have already destroyed on the way.

At some point we will have to abandon India, I don't think there is much doubt about that. The later the better though, and in WITP the British are much more of an offensive threat than IRL, as you know from your game with John.

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Post #: 627
Bombay - 3/29/2009 4:01:09 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		You guys hit the nail on the head. Here is the combat report with Bombay:








Attachment (1)

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Post #: 628
India Thrusts - 3/29/2009 4:07:48 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Here is a summary of the movement occurring within India as Brad drives west...






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 629
RE: India Thrusts - 3/29/2009 5:54:38 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		If they have that much in Bombay, they can't have much in Karachi. But this is where they'll drive you crazy. It'll take you awhile to move an army to Karchi, and in a week's time they can transfer 500 AV via air transport - give or take a bunch depeninding on how many transports they have. So you may find yourself racing to an open Karachi only to arrive and find a stout army entrenched there.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 630
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