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RE: Hot Waters around Cold Bay

 
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RE: Hot Waters around Cold Bay - 7/20/2009 4:24:22 PM   
John 3rd


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Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: flaggelant

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

Capture Bombay: Surrender of about 100K UK troops


Nice to see our armored division is unloading at Madras.




don't tell John!!!

i believe he made that division go sightseeing somewhere in the Indian mountains in his last single game



and what is the plan with the small CV force that's tracking KB?
will they join, or escort an AO force towards KB?? (whats the plan!?!)



FINE---Comment to remind me of past pain in Dan and I's game! It was no big deal really, the AI simply decided I needed about 25% of my Landing Force to go sight-seeing for nearly 30 days. I was NOT upset!



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Post #: 1291
RE: Hot Waters around Cold Bay - 7/20/2009 4:36:59 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

If they want the game to end so that they can focus on AE, they'd most likely come up with a plan that would involve something akin to "drawing an inside straight" in poker.  IE, a long shot that would get them back on track if, against all odds, it managed to succeed.

How close are you guys to auto-victory now?  I think you have a legit shot at it and your opponents might consider it an act of mercy if you do achieve it.  With Bombay cracking and with the Allies making no progress anywhere else, they appear to be on the ropes.


VPs right now are 33,906 to 7,848, or 4.32 to 1

Problem is, the ratio keeps going down, because in order to keep it over 4 to 1 we have to destroy 4 planes of theirs for every one of ours, 4 ships to 1, etc. Not easy. Without a major event, I think we will fall just short.

I think any of these will rack up enough to put us over the top:

1. Capture Bombay: Surrender of about 100K UK troops
2. Capture Manila: Surrender of 35K or so US troops, plus deny 1200 pts to Allies for base
3. Sink USN CV's. That's alot of points.
4. Force surrender of 30K or so troops at Cold Bay

Any of these would probably do. That's why I think if any of those happen, coupled with AE coming out, they would probably throw in the towel.


Let us hit these thoughts:

1. Bombay is definitely cracking so there is a real possibility of taking it within the next 3 months.

2. Manila needs to be taken out. Brad--Do you have any weak Brigades in India--Burma that could be pulled and used to finish of the Philippines? As weak as those troops there are, I doubt whether it would take more then 1 or 2 small Brigades to induce the surrender. This is a freebie with NO RISK at the moment.

3. Have no idea as to whether they will fight or not. Cannot control THEIR actions but we can raise some Hell in the Gulf of Alaska and try to force it...

4. I say we try to finish them off at Cold Bay! Michael has a new Brigade coming from China and we have the Imperial Guards Brigade in the Aleutians. Those 2 Brigades would bring about 650 Assault Strength with them. Couple them to about 30,000 supply and I bet we can force the surrender.

If we REALLY want to force it, I would also lift the 56th Inf Div and the Corps HQ from Umnak and add it to the Force to finish the Americans off quickly.

So which of these can realistically happen prior to January 1, 1943?

#1---Manila! Just will take moving the ships and picking up some Infantry for a quick end. Probably gain 3,000 VP just doing that.

#2---Cold Bay--Pull those four units, land them and their supply and CRUSH the American--Canadian troops! I'd wager on gaining 1,500-2,000 points in doing that.

#3---US CVs--If they come out to fight we will win. 12 Japanese CVs versus 4-5 American. The loss of even 2 US CVs will finish the game from a Naval perspective.

#4---Bombay--Even if we drop the Forts to ZERO can we take the hex? Don't know but it will fun to try and watch!

My .02...



< Message edited by John 3rd -- 7/20/2009 4:37:55 PM >

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Post #: 1292
RE: Hot Waters around Cold Bay - 7/20/2009 4:50:04 PM   
Q-Ball


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Status: offline 		Manila I don't think is as easy as that, mostly because it's still an urban hex, and we have hardly any infantry that isn't in India or the Aleutians. We have about 6 Nav Gd units at Clark actually that have been building squads, but not sure they are strong enough. We should give it a try though. They still have supplies there, we know that because they fired flak at our last bombing runs.

Bombay is realistic, though even there, hard to tell until we get the forts down to Zero. Ultimately Bombay will not fall until the supplies run out. We don't know how critical they are, though I suspect they are not in great shape.

Cold Bay is our best chance I think. They either have to take on KB, or allow us to land as many troops and supplies as we want, while they can't land anything. They either have to take on KB on unfavorable terms, or write those troops off.

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Post #: 1293
RE: Hot Waters around Cold Bay - 7/20/2009 5:00:57 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Hey Brad!

Could we move those Nvl Guard units into Bataan and finish that first?  I know we just bought that Brigade to move up to Cold Bay.  Is there another laying around we could use?  What about that Indochina (Vietnamese) Division we got when the Chinese crossed the border?

I agree with your thoughts regarding Cold Bay.  BANZAI!


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Post #: 1294
RE: Hot Waters around Cold Bay - 7/20/2009 5:36:39 PM   
Q-Ball


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From: Chicago, Illinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Hey Brad!

Could we move those Nvl Guard units into Bataan and finish that first?  I know we just bought that Brigade to move up to Cold Bay.  Is there another laying around we could use?  What about that Indochina (Vietnamese) Division we got when the Chinese crossed the border?

I agree with your thoughts regarding Cold Bay.  BANZAI!



The troops in the PI are prepped for Manila, not Bataan, though Bataan is probably easier. Manila is more points though. The VM Division is available, and prepped for Manila, I thought of that already. We also get a Brigade shortly on Hainan. We can probably scrape together about 800 to 1000 AV. Won't have any tanks, though.


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RE: Hot Waters around Cold Bay - 7/20/2009 6:01:39 PM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		Luzon: We get a Mixed Bde in 26 days with an Assault Value of 150. We need close to a month to get enough PPs to buy another division (AV - 450) from Manchuria. We can start it now to prep for Manila.
We take Bataan first and move in most of the Sally/Helen and Nell/Betty to fill up Clark now. This will pull some of the 30k in supply at Lingayen (there is another 40k in northern Luzon!). This will allow the 5 Naval Gds to accept replacments. This would push our total Assault value to close to 1000.
Tentative Assault date - 1 Nov 42 or slightly before.
We can move 2 of 4 BBs from Ceylon (Ise, Hyuga, Matsu, Nagato) to Singapore to finish repairs. Almost repaired at Singapore are CA Suzuya and Mikuma. In a months time, the 3 CA (Kako, Mogami, and Chikuma) at Shanghai will be repaired or close enough. They can now be based at Bataan and make DAILY bombardments runs into Manila. I did this in one of my other PBEMs and Manila fell on the first attack.

Cold Bay: The Bde from Manchuria will go in first. The Command HQ is already at Umnak prepping and we can change over the Army HQ at Umnak to Cold Bay. The Gds Mixed Bde can be moved in. We have enough LBA at Umnak and Adak to hit them hard and I would use the KB Kates (set above 15k to save them somewhat from flak) on ground attack. If they don't try anything in the next few weeks, then I can use a CA/CL bases BB TF to be based at Dutch Harbor to start wearing them down now.
Tentative Assault date - second half of Oct 42

Bombay: Yes, it will fall. We can set up 2 x BB TF made up of 2 BBs each and whatever CA/CL Brad has in the area. They will hit it daily from Pangrim. Its only 4 hexes away. There are 4 AFs within 6 hexes of Bombay to place every Sally/Helen on ground attack daily. This target will get priority of naval and air assets over Luzon.

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Post #: 1296
RE: Hot Waters around Cold Bay - 7/21/2009 2:33:28 PM   
Q-Ball


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From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		RE: Luzon, the troops available are some Nav Gd on Luzon, 1 VM Division at Haiphong (which is now full-strength, thank you Allies), 22nd Mixed which appears in a bit on Hainan, and 1st Eng Regt. at Brunei (we need to put it back on Manila). There is also a Rgt. at Rangoon that was resting from Burma campaign, this is also marked for Luzon now. That should be enough. The plan all along on Luzon was NOT to attack unless we needed the points for auto victory, because destroying units there will result in fragments beginning to rebuild.

RE: Bombay, we should be ready for an attack shortly. We need to put supplies in the pipeline for India, we are OK right now, but we are burning with these attacks, and need to get a reserve built up in a month or two when we want to close out Bombay

I am heading off for the Bahamas early tommorow, so Adm. Benoit will carry the torch through Sunday.

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RE: Hot Waters around Cold Bay - 7/21/2009 4:53:48 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Sounds like we can move on all three fronts without too much difficulty!  Thoughts:

1.  Philippines--Lets move the VM Inf Div and the new Brigade appearing at Hainan to Luzon and see if they are enough.  If we can add those Naval Guard to the attack, we should be looking pretty good.  The troops up there have got to be in horrific shape and I HOPE will surrender fairly easily.  Moving planes in from China can add to the bombardment.  I would use the repaired CAs for Bombardment runs (as long as it is safe).

2.  Cold Bay--I don't have a very good feel for the strength of the Allied troops at this base.  Do we think two fresh Brigades (with support) is enough to take the hex back?

3.  Bombay--IF you guys think we can take it then that is GREAT!  I like spitting the BBs into Divisions so the base is hit every turn.  This--plus air attack--should serve to massively damage the fighting strength there.  As long as we can keep dropping the Forts then we have a solid shot.



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Post #: 1298
Bahamas... - 7/21/2009 4:55:12 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Brad--You have no idea how jealous I am about you going to the Bahamas!  I haven't been able to leave the STATE of Colorado since September 2007!  Lordy...

Have a great time!

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Post #: 1299
Game Date - 7/21/2009 4:58:57 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		We got an email from Paul yesterday:

So we continue this game when AE comes out? Or shall AE consume us all?!?!? My thinking (and this shall be strange for me) is to propose that we play to January 1, 1943 and see IF we can get auto-victory.  It should be pretty obvious by that time as to whther or not Cold Bay can be reclaimed, Bombay falls, and the Philippines get claimed by the Empire. Thoughts? 

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Post #: 1300
Game and AE - 7/21/2009 5:12:28 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Just sent this thought to all our players within this campaign:

Hey Paul!
 
Michael and I had this very discussion over the phone last weekend. 
 
Here are my proposals for the multi-player game:
 
1.  We should play until January 1, 1943 and see if Japan can win by auto-victory (4-1).  Cold Bay and Bombay should be decisively settled by that point and we'll know what the war would look like for 1943. 
 
At THAT point...
 
2.  We all start-up AE and begin a new multiplayer campaign using the new game!  If we planned on doing this then I wager we would be among the first multi-player games on the AE Forum and it might REALLY generate some interest.  The game would be new and fresh for all of us and it might be REAL fun to see what happens.
 
NOTE:
My life situation has allowed me to simply observe and provide input to Michael and Brad.  The moment I land a job, my situation opens up some and I will take the reins back from Michael. 
 
Having the job also allows AUTHORIZATION from my Boss--this being the LOVELY Paula--to buy the game!  :>

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RE: Hot Waters around Cold Bay - 7/21/2009 6:26:46 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
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From: Chicago, Illinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Sounds like we can move on all three fronts without too much difficulty!  Thoughts:

1.  Philippines--Lets move the VM Inf Div and the new Brigade appearing at Hainan to Luzon and see if they are enough.  If we can add those Naval Guard to the attack, we should be looking pretty good.  The troops up there have got to be in horrific shape and I HOPE will surrender fairly easily.  Moving planes in from China can add to the bombardment.  I would use the repaired CAs for Bombardment runs (as long as it is safe).

3.  Bombay--IF you guys think we can take it then that is GREAT!  I like spitting the BBs into Divisions so the base is hit every turn.  This--plus air attack--should serve to massively damage the fighting strength there.  As long as we can keep dropping the Forts then we have a solid shot.




RE: PI, don't get too Bombardment happy there. Ft. Drum? Better be neutralized before we even try it. I send an AG by Bataan every so often to see if they have ammo. Last time I checked, YES, they do. We have more Barge Captain volunteers at Lingayen to give it another check.

RE: Bombay, I have kept the BB bombardments down for now to limit Ops damage, and SAVE them for when the forts drop to ZERO. Until then, one bombardment on Attack Days only seems to be enough to keep the forts dropping. I think the forts will keep dropping, as long as we rest the troops sufficiently between attacks. Should be at Zero around 10/20 ish or so.


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RE: Hot Waters around Cold Bay - 7/22/2009 4:29:46 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Am waiting on hearing about the turn from Michael.  The Uber-KB moved closer to Kodiak (about 7 hexes) to protect a Fast Transport run as well as an AK convoy carrying 12,500 supply.  We shall see if anything happens.  A US CV was spotted visually two days ago so we know some of the CVs are still present.  There is a CAP of nearly 80 Wildcats over Kodiak so we can guess the US Fleet is still present--just disbanded.

As we talked, Michael and I agreed to move the CVs with a 6 hex range and if nothing happens, send in a pair of STF to hit any shipping at Kodiak.  We have all 4 BC and numerous cruisers to accomplish this.  If we do this it will certainly ratchet up the pressure on Kodiak and Cold Bay.

It appears most of our players are up for an AE match once some time has passed and the updates/bugs are worked out.  Does anyone know if we will be looking at constant restarts with AE Upgrades/Corrections or will they be able to be added to ongoing campaigns?


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Post #: 1303
RE: Hot Waters around Cold Bay - 7/23/2009 6:22:56 PM   
John 3rd


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Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I went through the Combat Report for the current turn and there was no action up North. 

Michael--Do you plan to release the STF to hit Kodiak?

It appears that everyone has chimed in from the 'how long do we want to play?' email and all of us agree on January 1, 1943 for an end date.  This should provide enough time for the important areas to resolve and we'll see where things end at that point.


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RE: Hot Waters around Cold Bay - 7/23/2009 8:21:47 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Last turn showed 7 TF at Kodiak with a confirmed sighting on BB North Carolina. There were over 6 different types of fighters on CAP, but I was too slow to get a screenshot of how many of each. I will try to do so tonight. I plan to keep super-KB 7 hexes away (too far away for a one turn move with their SC TF) and allow supplies to unload at Cold Bay. A second supply TF will stay at Dutch Harbor as I don't want to give them that many targets. I converted the Fast Transport TF to a Bombardment TF and they should hit Cold Bay in 2 days.

Did you notice in the e-mail that they still have over 500k worth of supply at Bombay??

I will re-start my other 2 PBEMs as Japan with AE soon and allow John to finish here.  

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Post #: 1305
RE: Hot Waters around Cold Bay - 7/23/2009 11:10:04 PM   
flaggelant


Posts: 262
Joined: 1/25/2009
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		look at the bright side;

you get to destroy about 5K of supply with every supplyhit dealt

do you guys believe its a bluff? 500K is A LOT, even for the allied side !?!
(or would that mean that Karachi is about empty..?) 

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Post #: 1306
Scratch TWO Flattops! BANZAI! - 7/24/2009 6:06:33 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Combat Report
September 22, 1942
 
The last two months in the Aleutians has seen a real give-and-take between the Americans and Japanese.  The battle has centered around Cold Bay with each side bringing in supplies and reinforcements at some cost.  The most frustrating part of this has been the inability of the Imperial Fleet to get into the action.  For nearly all of July and August the Fleet underwent rest and refit in the Home Islands. 

Once the KB arrived, the Americans wisely pulled back towards their forward base at Kodiak.  Protected by nearly 150 Army and Navy fighters flying CAP, the Americans have waited for a Japanese move.  That move occurred on the 20th when the Fleet was spotted covering for a supply drop at Cold Bay.  Rather then retreat or foolishly strike at the American bastion, the Japanese Fleet cooly waited about 450 miles SW of Kodiak tempting the American Navy to 'come out and play.'

To Admiral Nagumo's immense surprise the Americans do EXACTLY that on September 22, 1942.  The results could not turn out any better for the Kaigun!

Nagumo's Combat Log

0530-0600 
Recon Planes launched from 3 CS and BB/CAs on normal Search

0555
Electrifying news arrives from Chiyoda Scout 7 that an American Carrier (Yorktown-Class) is spotted only 65 miles due east of the Fleet! 

0605
An American Scout plane spots Nagumo's immense Fleet.

0612
Chitose Scout 2 picks up another Carrier TF (USS Saratoga) 125 miles away!

0615
Japanese CVs begin reinforcing their CAP to a total of nearly 125 Zeros

0640-0725
Twelve Japanese carriers turn into the wind to launch a massed strike of nearly 500 aircraft:  175 Zero, 42 Val, 270 Kate.  Unfortunately the American Strikes begin to arrive as the Japanese desperately attempt to get the last of their aircraft in the air and on their way. 

0715-0722
The Wasp's (CV indentifed later through prisoners) Strike Force arrives in the form of 15 Wildcats, 28 SBD, and 12 Avengers.  They don't stand a chance as the Japanese CAP pours into them.  Nearly all of the Japanese pilots are veterans of the entire war and they decimate the incoming strike.  There are no American survivors and not a single bomb or torpedo is dropped at a Japanese ship.  Only 2 Zeros are lost during the short fight.

0745-0800
While a number of Zeros are being refueled and rearmed, USS Saratoga's Strike Wing appears.  Only 75 Zeros meet this attack but it only has to contend with 6 Wildcats and 36 SBD.  While the American fighter use a new weaving tactic costing the Japanese 5 Zeros, all but 4 SBD are shot down.  The last Dauntlesses drop their 1000lb bombs on BC Hiei hitting her once for minor damage.

0802-0837
Captain Fuchida organizes his massed Strike and wings to the east.  After about 20 minutes of flight, Fuchida spots one CV TF (Wasp) hidden under a rainshower.  He elects to leave Junyo/Hiyo and the CVL Strike Groups circling to wait a chance to hit Wasp.  With the majority of his force he moves on east to find CV Saratoga under partly cloudy skies. 

A stout CAP of 45 Wildcats meets the incoming Japanese.  Nearly 130 Japanese Zeros swarm over the American Fighters while 210 Kates begin moving into attack position.  This is certainly a large degree of overkill and Fuchida orders specific CV Torpedo planes to attack several of the cruisers protecting Saratoga.  As the Wildcats are swept aside by the Sea Eagles and their nimble Zeros (all Wildcats in exchange for 18 Zero) the Kates begin the destruction of Saratoga.  Over half the force attacks Saratoga and the large carrier capsizes after 8 torps open her up to the sea.  All of Saratoga's CA/CL escort are hit.  CAs Portland and Northampton as well as CLs St. Louis and Helena are all hit with 1-3 Torps each.

With satisfaction Fuchida radio's in his report.

850-919
The Strike Groups circling Wasp don't get the chance to attack this CV as it hides under the rainstrom so they elect to finish off some of Sara's escorts.  A total of 46 Zero, 42 Val, and 60 Kates attack the beleagored cruisers adding more damage to them and sinking CL Helena.

1000-1145
Recovery of Japanese Strikes occur with few mishaps.

0100-0145
The final Japanese Strike of the day sees a force of 131 Zero, 63 Val, and 195 Kate take to the air to find and finish CV Wasp. 

0235-0258
Wasp, now without cloud cover, is easily destroyed by the Japanese assault.  She slips beneath the waves after absorbing 9 Bombs and 6 Torps.  BB North Caolina also sinks having taken a total of 1 Bomb and 8 Torps.  CA Quincy and CLAA San Diego are heavily damaged as well during the attack.  The paltry CAP of 14 Wildcats are shotdown in exchange for a total of 10 Zero, 4 Val, and 12 Kate.

0345-0500
Recovery of aircraft!


It is a boisterious Fleet that celebrates the victory this day!  A total of 4 US CVs (as well as 2 British CV) have now been sunk during the war and there is no doubt about who controls the Pacific through the end of 1943!  For no CV damage (again) the Japanese lose a total of only 63 planes.  The 8 CV and 4 CVL know that they will be joined during the next year by another 3-4 CV and 2 CVL to raise their awesome aerial firepower against WHATEVER the American might throw at them!

It is indeed a time to celebrate and open many a flask of Sake!

BANZAI!  BANZAI!!  BANZAI!!!


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 7/24/2009 6:11:03 PM >

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Post #: 1307
BANZAI! - 7/24/2009 6:16:31 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Holy CATS!  Scratch Saratoga, Wasp, BB North Carolina, and CL Helena with at least another 5 CA/CL/CLAA to be sunk tomorrow...

I have no idea WHY the Americans sortied with only 2 CV but it was great to listen to Mike's play-by-play as the fight occurred!  This Japanese Admiral gratefully thanks Adm. Benoit for taking over the game and then letting me help as we have played out the last 3 months.

With our victory over the Royal Navy in the east and now this 'battle' the war is effectively settled until at least late-1943.

How about that??!!

WOW...


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Post #: 1308
RE: BANZAI! - 7/24/2009 10:51:01 PM   
Hornblower


Posts: 1361
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From: New York'er relocated to Chicago
Status: offline 		How close to Auto-victory now?

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Post #: 1309
RE: BANZAI! - 7/25/2009 12:21:55 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I just recieved this e-mail from one of our opponents.

quote:

I see John is sounding the BANZAI chant across the forum (from the latest post titling on the forum first page - not reading your AAR obviously) - I wonder if he mentioned the flagrant HR violation of no more than 450 CV a/c in a hex. Your first strike equlled the HR limit, and then include the CAP, naval search and 2nd strike.

To say I'm a little pissed off is evident. I've asked Paul if he wants to consider asking for a re-run of the turn so you split Uber-KB into two hexes. I'll go with whatever he says. I don't mind loosing 2 RN CVs in a fair fight, but I feel 'victory disease' is becoming evident.

Rgds
Steve


We will need to resolve this issue as I was unaware of this HR when I did the orders.

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Post #: 1310
RE: BANZAI! - 7/25/2009 12:53:17 AM   
vettim89


Posts: 3615
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From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I just recieved this e-mail from one of our opponents.

quote:

I see John is sounding the BANZAI chant across the forum (from the latest post titling on the forum first page - not reading your AAR obviously) - I wonder if he mentioned the flagrant HR violation of no more than 450 CV a/c in a hex. Your first strike equlled the HR limit, and then include the CAP, naval search and 2nd strike.

To say I'm a little pissed off is evident. I've asked Paul if he wants to consider asking for a re-run of the turn so you split Uber-KB into two hexes. I'll go with whatever he says. I don't mind loosing 2 RN CVs in a fair fight, but I feel 'victory disease' is becoming evident.

Rgds
Steve


We will need to resolve this issue as I was unaware of this HR when I did the orders.


I guess I see the point but they sent two CV's against 8 CV and CVL. WHat did they think was going to happen? Jeesh

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(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1311
RE: BANZAI! - 7/25/2009 2:23:04 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with your point. I was thinking the same thing even when I was watching the actual combat. What were they trying to accomplish by sending only 2 CVs in separate TF that ended up 2 hexes apart??

(in reply to vettim89)
Post #: 1312
RE: BANZAI! - 7/25/2009 2:34:35 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Guys, I think some people might be missing the point here.... HRs are sacrosanct. The IJN disposition during the turn violated HRs and thus the turn MUST be rerun. I prefer to play with few HRs myself but what HRs there are must be sacrosanct.

The HRs were violated and the turn must be rerun irrespective of the outcome. It is that simple.


With that said even with the HR re: max planes per hex in place 2 vs 8 is a losing proposition. That is beside the point though, HRs were violated and thus irrespective of the outcome the turn must be rerun. Anything else would result in any players involved being added to a mental "Never play that guy" list as how can you trust someone who violates an HR ( albeit unintentionally ) but then argues that the violation doesn't require a rerun of the turn.

The effect on the game is an absolute irrelevance compared to this.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1313
RE: BANZAI! - 7/25/2009 2:59:40 AM   
itsjustme

 

Posts: 171
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Guys, I think some people might be missing the point here.... HRs are sacrosanct.

Anything else would result in any players involved being added to a mental "Never play that guy" list as how can you trust someone who violates an HR



Yeah, definitely have to add the jackasses who make house rules and then don't play by them to the "Never play that guy" again list.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 1314
RE: BANZAI! - 7/25/2009 3:05:24 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Hello stalkerboy .

What itsjustme is referring to is, obviously, a disagreement we had about HRs in a game he and I played about 2 yrs ago. I'd point out that it is one thing to disagree over the interpretation of a somewhat vague rule and another to clearly violate a mathematical limit (450 planes per hex ).

Itsjustme....If you have something to say to me have the integrity to PM me and not pollute someone else's thread please.

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 7/25/2009 3:09:03 AM >

(in reply to itsjustme)
Post #: 1315
RE: BANZAI! - 7/25/2009 3:11:32 AM   
Hornblower


Posts: 1361
Joined: 9/10/2003
From: New York'er relocated to Chicago
Status: offline 		I would agree with Nemo on this point..  While the violation of the HR was completely unintentional, it would be against the spirit of the game to allow any benefit gained to stand..

(in reply to itsjustme)
Post #: 1316
RE: BANZAI! - 7/25/2009 3:23:44 AM   
itsjustme

 

Posts: 171
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		Just agreeing with Nemo.   Don't play with Jackasses that don't adhere to the rules they agreed to.

(in reply to Hornblower)
Post #: 1317
RE: BANZAI! - 7/25/2009 3:30:23 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I was not aware of the 450 aircraft per hex limit on carrier based planes. Remember, I took over in early August 42 from John due to his legal issues. I had already written back about it and awaiting confirmation from the Allies about their desires.

(in reply to itsjustme)
Post #: 1318
RE: BANZAI! - 7/25/2009 3:47:44 AM   
Hornblower


Posts: 1361
Joined: 9/10/2003
From: New York'er relocated to Chicago
Status: offline 		I think the term Jackass in unwarranted in this case.  A jackass would be a player knowingly, with full understanding of the HR, violate them for his benefit.  Then if caught would try to explain away the occurrence with some system issues, or the game caused this.  Then would refuse to make recompense..  Ny59 (Gerris Wilkinson) has done none of that.  There is no reason to doubt his word the he was unaware.  Furthermore he is in communication with his opponents on how they wish to precede.  Hardly the actions of a Jackass.
Regards,
Hornblower.. Jets #73

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1319
RE: BANZAI! - 7/25/2009 3:50:08 AM   
itsjustme

 

Posts: 171
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		I agree and apologize.   My comments were directed at those who intentionally violate HRs that they agreed to.  Not an inadvertent violation.

No offense intended to Gerris.

(in reply to Hornblower)
Post #: 1320
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