T 34 M43 firepoint question

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> John Tiller's Campaign Series >> T 34 M43 firepoint question

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T 34 M43 firepoint question - 1/6/2009 12:20:20 AM

FM WarB

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Why is actionpoints to fire 35, like most other 3 man turret tank? Though the T34 M3 turret was larger than earlier T 24 models, it still only had two crewmen in the turret. I suggest the actionpoints to shoot should be no less than 40, and maybe 45, like other two man turret tanks.

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RE: T 34 M43 firepoint question - 1/6/2009 12:26:31 AM

Jason Petho

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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FM WarB

Why is actionpoints to fire 35, like most other 3 man turret tank? Though the T34 M3 turret was larger than earlier T 24 models, it still only had two crewmen in the turret. I suggest the actionpoints to shoot should be no less than 40, and maybe 45, like other two man turret tanks.

A residual of the Talonsoft design.

Certainly a good question.

Jason Petho

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RE: T 34 M43 firepoint question - 1/6/2009 11:53:50 PM

Big Ivan

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Gents,

In my opinion, if one changes the T-34 M43 to 40-45 action points then one best change the Tiger, Panther and Mark-IV's due to their slow turret traverse to around 45 also. Also consider changing the US Sherman down to 30 or 33 due to its gyro-stabelized gun and fast traverse!

In the end it's best to keep all as is or the complextion would really change for the worse I'm afraid.

Big Ivan

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RE: T 34 M43 firepoint question - 1/7/2009 10:01:38 AM

GHQ

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I agree with Big Ivan, it never ceases to amaze me how often many wargamers can always find a little something extra to add to games to give the Germans an advantage. Rarely do you see the same input put into the Russian side of the game and often flaws in the German side are overlooked.
If you are not careful you end up with the Germans being invincible and we all should know that was not the historic case.

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RE: T 34 M43 firepoint question - 1/7/2009 11:27:01 AM

FM WarB

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Panthers and tigers are 40 AP to fire. Lowering the sherman AP to fire might not be a bad idea. Surely the Sherman should not be equal to the two man turret T 34 M43 at 35. Changed to 40 the T 34 M43 would have same AP to fire as panthers and tigers.
As an ex (US) tank commander in a three man turret, I shudder to think of the hassles involved fighting with only two crewmen in the turret (a prospect we occaisionally entertained when suffering personnel shortage).

(in reply to GHQ)

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RE: T 34 M43 firepoint question - 1/7/2009 6:49:23 PM

umbro

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I think the point that Jason was making is that 35APs for the T34M43 was probably an error given the values for the early T34 marques with essentially the same turret layout.

The russians are not without ahistoric advantages of their own, the single largest (IMHO) is the tactically flexibility afforded by the availability of the 3SP tank platoon.

umbro

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RE: T 34 M43 firepoint question - 1/7/2009 7:35:49 PM

Jason Petho

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quote:

ORIGINAL: umbro

I think the point that Jason was making is that 35APs for the T34M43 was probably an error given the values for the early T34 marques with essentially the same turret layout.

Exactly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: umbro
The russians are not without ahistoric advantages of their own, the single largest (IMHO) is the tactically flexibility afforded by the availability of the 3SP tank platoon.

Don't forget, that there are some T-34's platoons are availabe as 10 tanks, for that very reason. Not all of them yet, though. In a future update!

Jason Petho

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RE: T 34 M43 firepoint question - 1/7/2009 8:08:30 PM

FM WarB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

Don't forget, that there are some T-34's platoons are availabe as 10 tanks, for that very reason. Not all of them yet, though. In a future update!

Jason Petho

I noticed these. Ten tanks is actually a company, and useful if you want to reduce company command elements or commanders in the Russian oob. This may be useful if arty spotting rules are ever implimented.

Interesting stray off topic!

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Post #: 8

RE: T 34 M43 firepoint question - 1/7/2009 8:10:43 PM

Jason Petho

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FM WarB

I noticed these. Ten tanks is actually a company, and useful if you want to reduce company command elements or commanders in the Russian oob.

This is precisely the reason behind the 10 tank "platoon".

Jason Petho

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RE: T 34 M43 firepoint question - 1/7/2009 8:17:04 PM

Jason Petho

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In essense, it provides a scenario designer - should they chose to so - the ability to create Russian tank battalions as such:

41 06 44 12 B0010999 5 $ Tank Battalion 41 - T34 M41
41 06 44 12 P00305 # Tank Battalion HQ
41 06 44 12 P00842 1st Tank Company
41 06 44 12 P00842 2nd Tank Company
41 06 44 12 P00842 3rd Tank company

Where P00842 is the 10 tank T-34 M41 "platoon" available in the organization editor.

If it is well received, additional platoons of that sort may be added in future updates.

Jason Petho

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RE: T 34 M43 firepoint question - 1/7/2009 8:49:34 PM

FM WarB

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If you added a tank unit (say 2 tanks) at te top of the bn list would it have command functions?

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Post #: 11

RE: T 34 M43 firepoint question - 1/7/2009 9:14:02 PM

Jason Petho

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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FM WarB

If you added a tank unit (say 2 tanks) at te top of the bn list would it have command functions?

No, they would be there in representation only.

You could, on the other hand, do something like this:

41 06 44 12 B0010999 5 $ Tank Battalion 41 - T34 M41
41 06 44 12 P00305 # Tank Battalion HQ
41 06 44 12 C0000999 Tank Battalion

Where this C0000999 would look like this:

41 06 44 12 C0000999 5 Tank Battalion 41 - T34 M41
41 06 44 12 P00840 Headquaters
41 06 44 12 P00842 1st Tank Company
41 06 44 12 P00842 2nd Tank Company
41 06 44 12 P00842 3rd Tank company

This organization would allow the P00840 Headquaters of 2 T34 M41 to be the command element for the battalion, but limited to company HQ ranges. There is still the traditional Battalion HQ as P00305 # Tank Battalion HQ

Jason Petho

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