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RE: Artillery Spotting

 
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Artillery Spotting


Yes
  76% (59)
No
  23% (18)


Total Votes : 77


(last vote on : 10/27/2009 7:52:25 AM)
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RE: Artillery Spotting - 7/9/2009 1:04:54 PM   
Crossroads


Posts: 17372
Joined: 7/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

Another solution may be to incorporate an "accuracy" factor to an artillery strike.

As it is right now, any combat unit may plot artillery and it will be 100% accurate as long as any other unit keeps LOS to that hex.

So, let's add an accuracy factor.

For countries such as the United States there can be a 90% (or something) chance the artillery will bombard the requested hex. If it falls in the 10% "miss target" factor.. the artillery can "drift" up to a hex or two (the way it does now for artillery landing out of LOS)

The better the artillery doctrine, the less likely for a miss.

The poorer the artillery doctrine, the more likely a miss and drift will occur.

This could be a generalized OPTION for existing & settings could be placed within the SCENARIO editor to allow the scenario designer to better reflect the capabilties of the armies in question for new or updated scenarios.

All one would need to do is something like this:

COUNTRY........DOCTRINE.................DRIFT RADIUS
USA......................90.............................1
Romania................40........................... 3
etc
etc

No new units required.

Jason Petho



A quick comment on this one as well...

Actually, when executed correctly, 250 meters, let alone 500 meters, is a quite a drift for artillery. Individual errors do happen, of course.

From that point of view, I assume the abstraction has to do with the time frame of the game. In six minutes, the first volley indeed could be seen to stray from the initial target. It would not take too long to make the corrections for very accurate firing, though, if FO is present and sees the target area. Definitively within the six minutes, I would say.

In the above post, I provided a link to another discussion. The discussion mentioned a real example where a single heavy howitzer was used as a "mortar unit" against a target.

The original report lists that a total of 17 single shots were fired under the spotting FO's orders and corrections. Five of them were direct hits. Then the report continues and states that:

"Longitudinal dispersion was quite large (150 m.) when the advantageous weather conditions are taken account; calm, temperature +14 C."

Reading the original report, this comment actually states that the weather conditions were good and still the dispersion was quite large, 150 meters. I also assume that this means that the howitzer itself was in pretty good condition. Often, the guns were quite overused and worn out meaning there would be problems in accurate to-the-spot shelling.

Again, just my 0.02 regarding the arty accuracy itself.



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Post #: 91
RE: Artillery Spotting - 7/9/2009 3:11:53 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

It would not take too long to make the corrections for very accurate firing, though, if FO is present and sees the target area.


While I agree with all you point out, it was thought a proper FO is not always present, whether that be because of each countries doctrine (they did vary, of course) or FO is KIA or what have you.

Jason Petho



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Post #: 92
RE: Artillery Spotting - 7/9/2009 6:05:59 PM   
Crossroads


Posts: 17372
Joined: 7/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

It would not take too long to make the corrections for very accurate firing, though, if FO is present and sees the target area.


While I agree with all you point out, it was thought a proper FO is not always present, whether that be because of each countries doctrine (they did vary, of course) or FO is KIA or what have you.

Jason Petho



Yes, I can definitively see also the spotted indirect fire miss the target (This is already the case when a previously spotted hex is no longer spotted when the indirect fire takes place the next turn, right?).

For an example, there can be a case where the indirect fire order is called by a "non-trained FO", e.g. an infantry officer with a map and the means for communication. He might give the wrong co-ordinates, or perhaps use a different map from that of the artillery unit.

On the other hand, if a proper trained FO is available and present for spotting, this is less likely to happen, and any drift would be promptly corrected.

That is why I suggested that indeed if a specialized FO unit is used, direct artillery fire should be available

Are you able to shed any light as where the 1.05 arty spotting rules are at the moment?

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Post #: 93
RE: Artillery Spotting - 7/9/2009 6:36:33 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads
Are you able to shed any light as where the 1.05 arty spotting rules are at the moment?


No changes have been made to date as 1.05 is on the backburner until Modern Wars: Volume I is released.

Jason Petho



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Post #: 94
RE: Artillery Spotting - 7/9/2009 8:51:21 PM   
hurtzDonut


Posts: 39
Joined: 1/8/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
When will said Modern Wars: Volume I be released?

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"Invader blood marches through my veins, like giant radioactive rubberpants" Invader Zim

(in reply to Jason Petho)
Post #: 95
RE: Artillery Spotting - 7/9/2009 9:40:54 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hurtzDonut

When will said Modern Wars: Volume I be released?


As soon as possible.

Still lots to do, but every day brings us closer to release.

Jason Petho


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Post #: 96
RE: Artillery Spotting - 7/11/2009 5:29:32 PM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho


quote:

ORIGINAL: hurtzDonut

When will said Modern Wars: Volume I be released?


As soon as possible.

Still lots to do, but every day brings us closer to release.
Jason Petho



Would this qualify for a DOH response?

(in reply to Jason Petho)
Post #: 97
RE: Artillery Spotting - 9/25/2009 8:56:58 PM   
mheard

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 9/4/2009
Status: offline
quote:

No changes have been made to date as 1.05 is on the backburner until Modern Wars: Volume I is released.

Jason Petho


Will Modern Wars I have any changes to the way artillery is handled as per the many excellent suggestions made for spotting, etc.?

Thanks,

Martin Heard

(in reply to Jason Petho)
Post #: 98
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