RE: Weapon Damage

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Modern] >> Hired Guns: The Jagged Edge >> RE: Weapon Damage

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RE: Weapon Damage - 1/19/2009 6:14:18 PM

Edgewise

Posts: 34
Joined: 1/18/2009
Status: offline

The biggest problem with shotguns in HG is the AP cost followed closely by limited selection. I'd like to see double barrel and 'common' semi-auto versions available, as well as allowing the mod (or just adding like a 'carbine' version) 'sawed off' shotguns. Mech skill 50 to do it without damaging or breaking the weapon. AP cost of 9 for pump action, 8 for semi-auto, and -1 for sawed off shotguns. Sawed off shotguns would weigh less as well, but have range cut in half, and shot spread doubled. The limited selection and extreme AP costs assigned to these weapons in HG makes them far less usefull than they are irl. Still, they can be good in HG in certain situations.

Cool shotgun ammo you might wanna consider to spice them up:
Dragon's breath ammo Shotgun flamethrower! Afaik you can still buy these online if you look hard enough. I found some ammo for around 20 bucks/round about 8 years ago. Not sure about legallity, but they are very very hard to find for sure. Update: found some for 16.98 each, sold by a California based company. White phosphorous, range varries but the most evil ones are only about 20 meters, more docile go out to 100m, just depends on the cartridge contents.
Flechette lots of needle like projectiles, greater penetration than normal rounds. Not sure if I'd call them a true 'armor piercing' round but supposidly much better vs body armor than buckshot
Flare self explanitory, useless without night implimentation
Shredder Like buckshot, many projectiles, but these are all jagged and angular like a dozen tiny caltrops. Supposed to do huge damage to unprotected targets up close, but non-aerodynamic shot so range is very short.

You can really load almost anything into a shotgun. Tiny grenades, shaped charge projectiles, etc. You can't buy explosive small arms ammo that is designed for human targets (international laws yadda yadda, war crimes bla bla) but you can buy pre-made hollow slugs with a detination charge in the tip, essentially allowing someone with the right skills to make a small HEAP (High explosive anti-personnel) round for a shotgun. Why it's perfectly legal to make tank/artillery sized HEAP rounds but not bullet sized, I'm not totally sure but that's how it is.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)

Post #: 31

RE: Weapon Damage - 1/19/2009 6:49:30 PM

Hard Sarge

Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline

agree

yeap, seen some of them flamers

my buddy had a sawoff that was just plain dump, 3 inch barrel (you could see the shell when it was loaded) never seen him fire it (I didn't want to) but he said it worked

I think the AP costs for about everything is a little too high

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Post #: 32

RE: Weapon Damage - 1/19/2009 7:06:36 PM

Mus

Posts: 1759
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I think the AP costs for about everything is a little too high

Not sure how long a round is supposed to be, so I couldnt say.

Generally speaking, it doesnt really make sense how some of the actions take a great deal more AP than others, but I understand why for game design purposes they dont want a sniper with a semiauto weapon system cranking off 3 decently aimed shots a round or a guy throwing out more than 1 grenade in a round.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)

Post #: 33

RE: Weapon Damage - 1/19/2009 7:22:36 PM

Edgewise

Posts: 34
Joined: 1/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I think the AP costs for about everything is a little too high

Not sure how long a round is supposed to be, so I couldnt say.

Generally speaking, it doesnt really make sense how some of the actions take a great deal more AP than others, but I understand why for game design purposes they dont want a sniper with a semiauto weapon system cranking off 3 decently aimed shots a round or a guy throwing out more than 1 grenade in a round.

I also dunno how long a round is. I just try to look at ap vs other ap actions. Grenades actually do take a while to pull the pin, aim and throw. Alot longer than any shooting action imo. But you can run the distance of 2-3 rail cars in a round, so I think it's reasonable you could execute 3 aimed shotgun trigger pulls in the same time, or 2-3 sniper shots if they were on a single target.

(in reply to Mus)

Post #: 34

RE: Weapon Damage - 1/19/2009 8:24:31 PM

Mus

Posts: 1759
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edgewise

I also dunno how long a round is. I just try to look at ap vs other ap actions. Grenades actually do take a while to pull the pin, aim and throw. Alot longer than any shooting action imo. But you can run the distance of 2-3 rail cars in a round, so I think it's reasonable you could execute 3 aimed shotgun trigger pulls in the same time, or 2-3 sniper shots if they were on a single target.

Throw them where and how accurately? Ive noticed the game is designed to prevent a single character throwing more than one grenade. I think more than one could easily be thrown in a "round" given the other possible actions taken.

As far as the amount of time needed to fire 3 aimed shots from a shotgun or a sniper rifle, yeah I agree the time necessary to do so is very small, althought not quite as fast as the time needed to fire 3 aimed shots from a pistol or assault rifle.

The reason why you cant fire 3 shots from a shotgun or rifle in a single round, is because the ability to do so would unbalance the gameplay, not because its unrealistic to be able to do it.

We see these kinds of balance decisions made all the time.

< Message edited by Mus -- 1/19/2009 8:26:00 PM >

(in reply to Edgewise)

Post #: 35

RE: Weapon Damage - 1/19/2009 9:40:28 PM

LimeyBugger

Posts: 31
Joined: 1/11/2009
Status: offline

http://www.devildogs.cc/

Handy list of jarhead slang - yes, I can find it as easily as you. Hoorah.

In my experience, most military folks refer to anyone in the navy as "arse bandits" - or some derivation thereof. Pretty universal, really. Not sure how "squid" equates to that - tho I'm sure it involves something pretty hideous.

But back to shotguns...

You stated initially that they had their use in the game, regardless of what point you're at - beginning, middle, end. My point with the statement on sniper rifles - was that HG combat strongly favours long-range weapons. The longer, the better.

What should ostensibly have been the toughest fight of the game, was an absolute doddle. Partly due to engine mechanics, but I have to say that they really didn't think things through in the map design. If it's your style to use a shotgun - then have fun. Really, I think you'll be hitting the reload button a lot on the last fight.

quote:

I said if he wanted to toss a granade into a room, to take out the enemy while he is standing in the room, then he is a fool (in real life, in the game it doesn't matter as he can always reload)

Uh - lie. You didn't say "in the room". You didn't say "right frikking next to" - you said "close". To quote, "depending on the spread, you can hit 3 to 5 guys with a shot (use buckshot)". Sorry, but you're LYING about what you said.

Make up your mind - is it "short range" or "point blank"? Are you a marine or a ninja master trained by Masaaki Hatsumi? Get your story straight.

As for real-life - well, you're dead. Unless they're pretty crappily trained, 3-1 odds isn't good for survival rate. Generally doesn't matter what you're armed with - shotgun, pistol or knife.

< Message edited by LimeyBugger -- 1/19/2009 11:20:53 PM >

(in reply to Hard Sarge)

Post #: 36

RE: Weapon Damage - 1/20/2009 5:05:42 AM

Edgewise

Posts: 34
Joined: 1/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

The reason why you cant fire 3 shots from a shotgun or rifle in a single round, is because the ability to do so would unbalance the gameplay, not because its unrealistic to be able to do it.

I have to disagree. I don't think 3 shotgun trigger pulls in a round is broken considerring how shotguns work in the game. Body armor just makes them not all that dangerous, but the AP cost makes them junk. As most people have said, nobody uses -just- a shotgun, the people who use them at all use them mostly at the beginning of the game. I find them useful in certain situations, but by the time I've got a nice AR, the shotgun is dumped on the ground someplace. And you can actually fire 3 rifle shots in a round, just not with max aim. Many AR's work just fine in HG in a sniping role anyhow and eliminate the need to lug another weapon and ammo around.

(in reply to Mus)

Post #: 37

RE: Weapon Damage - 1/22/2009 12:53:04 PM

R@S

Posts: 46
Joined: 12/11/2008
Status: offline

There is a shotgun that you can shoot 2 shots in one turn, the Mag-7. It hasn't a low weight but is very good as a back-up weapon for those sticky situations. I've had some nice close up and pers'nal kills with that one

< Message edited by R@S -- 1/22/2009 1:06:37 PM >

(in reply to Edgewise)

Post #: 38

RE: Weapon Damage - 1/22/2009 3:17:01 PM

Edgewise

Posts: 34
Joined: 1/18/2009
Status: offline

Yea, but the other shotguns should also have that ability. Shotguns are one of the most common civilian/police firearms in the world, largely because of their versatility and raw firepower. I think they are under represented and poorly represented in HS.

(in reply to R@S)

Post #: 39

RE: Weapon Damage - 1/22/2009 7:03:03 PM

SlickWilhelm

Posts: 1854
Joined: 7/22/2007
From: Rochester, MN
Status: offline

I'm having very good luck on my second game using a shotgun, especially with the bullet ammo(which in the game is mislabeled as "buckshot"). Bizon is doing very well with the Benelli Super 90 as his main weapon. Granted, I haven't reached the airport yet, but when used by someone with good acc rating, it's an effective killing utility. When hit by a 12 guage slug, the bad guys get blown backwards about ten yards(and they die). It also sounds great with the speakers turned up!

Bizon also brings along a Mac-10 in his backpack in case he gets wounded and doesn't have enough AP's for the shotgun.

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Post #: 40

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RE: Weapon Damage