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Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug?

 
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Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 1:16:45 AM   
LowCommand

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: VA
Status: offline
I now have had two units break into two pieces when loaded on AK's. One piece behaves normally, the other becomes size 9999 and can Not be loaded onto anything. Is this a known bug, a sign my save files are corrupt, or what?



_____________________________

"Mines reported in the fairway,
"Warn all traffic and detain,
"'Sent up Unity, Cralibel, Assyrian, Stormcock, and Golden Gain."
Post #: 1
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 1:29:58 AM   
rtrapasso


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Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LowCommand


I now have had two units break into two pieces when loaded on AK's. One piece behaves normally, the other becomes size 9999 and can Not be loaded onto anything. Is this a known bug, a sign my save files are corrupt, or what?


i can think of a way or maybe two that this could happen... post a screen shot... i suspect that you are dealing with a Dutch Naval Base Force.

Post details! Mod, Scenario, unit, etc.

(in reply to LowCommand)
Post #: 2
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 2:30:17 AM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		Yep, need details.......unit helps, screenshot of the units etc. Sounds like a static equipment.

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 3
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 2:39:33 AM   
LowCommand

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: VA
Status: offline
Sorry about the lack of details, I thought it might be well known. Stock scenario 41B Dec 41 to Mar 46 against the AI game date Sep 14, 1944. The OS is Win XP SP2, otherwise fully patched (I have one of the motherboards that can't use SP3). The first unit I discovered with the problem is indeed Dutch 3rd DAF Base Force at Maumere, but the second is US 122nd USAAF Base Force at Madang. I have tried to load weird unit bit, but it won't budge. I have tried sending the main unit back and combining the two then reloading it. The weird bit stays put.

Here is the first screen shot.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Mines reported in the fairway,
"Warn all traffic and detain,
"'Sent up Unity, Cralibel, Assyrian, Stormcock, and Golden Gain."

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 4
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 2:41:42 AM   
LowCommand

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: VA
Status: offline
Screen Shot 2.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Mines reported in the fairway,
"Warn all traffic and detain,
"'Sent up Unity, Cralibel, Assyrian, Stormcock, and Golden Gain."

(in reply to LowCommand)
Post #: 5
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 2:50:58 AM   
LowCommand

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: VA
Status: offline
OK, lets try embedding the picture.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Mines reported in the fairway,
"Warn all traffic and detain,
"'Sent up Unity, Cralibel, Assyrian, Stormcock, and Golden Gain."

(in reply to LowCommand)
Post #: 6
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 2:54:09 AM   
LowCommand

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: VA
Status: offline
And for my next trick, nothing up my sleeve, screen shot 2.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Mines reported in the fairway,
"Warn all traffic and detain,
"'Sent up Unity, Cralibel, Assyrian, Stormcock, and Golden Gain."

(in reply to LowCommand)
Post #: 7
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 9:33:05 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		OK - this looks very strange: there is nothing in the units to start with, so the load cost should be zero... but if there is nothing in the unit (assuming the screen shot hasn't been censored or something), then you won't be able to load it or move it...

It appears that these units are both defunct (no squads, etc.), so best to ignore them... don't know why the load cost is off, and don't know why the unit strength at the top is reported as 1 gun 30 men when there are no squads present.

If for some reason you are determined to rescue the apparently non-existent (i.e. for the commanding officers), you MIGHT try shipping in a squad and letting it recombine, then trying to move it again... of course, you might lose the squad.

(in reply to LowCommand)
Post #: 8
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 10:20:24 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		Is this a fragment where the parent died elsewhere of attrition? I suspect it is. This is one spot in WitP that has a number of bugs. As far as I can tell these have been fixed in AE btw.

Edit: If not, send me a save please.

_____________________________


(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 9
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 11:33:14 AM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Is this a fragment where the parent died elsewhere of attrition? I suspect it is. This is one spot in WitP that has a number of bugs. As far as I can tell these have been fixed in AE btw.

Edit: If not, send me a save please.

This sounds right, though i've never seen the load cost change like this...

LowCommand: Usually, when a parent unit dies from attrition, the other fragments just vanish, but sometimes the fragments turn into "ghost" units... they usually start to vanish over the next few turns, although you can sometimes see traces of them over considerable periods of time.

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 10
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 3:09:58 PM   
Charbroiled


Posts: 1181
Joined: 10/15/2004
From: Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Is this a fragment where the parent died elsewhere of attrition? I suspect it is. This is one spot in WitP that has a number of bugs. As far as I can tell these have been fixed in AE btw.

Edit: If not, send me a save please.


Those units ARE the parent units.

I would bet that it is related to the "lost parent" bug, but the parent isn't "lost"...yet. If it was me, and I had time, I would load the rest of the unit up again and recombine them...then try to load normally.

_____________________________

"When I said I would run, I meant 'away' ". - Orange

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 11
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 3:17:04 PM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		The summary in the upper center of the screen shows "1 Gun, 30 Troops", but there is nothing in the TOE field below.

(in reply to Charbroiled)
Post #: 12
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 3:57:01 PM   
Oldguard1970

 

Posts: 578
Joined: 7/19/2006
From: Hiawassee, GA
Status: offline 		It is odd that both unit screens show the "1 gun, 30 troops."  It is odd that the unit screens show the units to be parents, not fragments.  As others have noted, it is REALLY odd to see nothing in the section that shows the composition of the unit.

I have never seen such things.  While it may be a "bug", I suspect it is some sort of interface problem or installation problem. 

What to do?  A.  Ignore the goofy units and see if one of the loaded fragments becomes a proper "parent unit" when you unload it at its destination.  B.  Go to an earlier saved game and try again.  C.  Land the loaded fragments, recombine, and try again.

Good luck!



_____________________________

"Rangers Lead the Way!"

(in reply to mlees)
Post #: 13
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 4:18:32 PM   
rtrapasso


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Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charbroiled


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Is this a fragment where the parent died elsewhere of attrition? I suspect it is. This is one spot in WitP that has a number of bugs. As far as I can tell these have been fixed in AE btw.

Edit: If not, send me a save please.


Those units ARE the parent units.

I would bet that it is related to the "lost parent" bug, but the parent isn't "lost"...yet. If it was me, and I had time, I would load the rest of the unit up again and recombine them...then try to load normally.



what i THINK what is happening is the parent starved to death, and the game is now trying to simultaneously change a fragment to a parent, and at the same to kill it off... weird stuff like this happens when the parent dies from attrition. You can't access the unit (although you can see it) - thus it is a ghost.

(in reply to Charbroiled)
Post #: 14
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 4:20:04 PM   
rtrapasso


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Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OldGuard1970

It is odd that both unit screens show the "1 gun, 30 troops."  It is odd that the unit screens show the units to be parents, not fragments.  As others have noted, it is REALLY odd to see nothing in the section that shows the composition of the unit.

I have never seen such things.  While it may be a "bug", I suspect it is some sort of interface problem or installation problem. 

What to do?  A.  Ignore the goofy units and see if one of the loaded fragments becomes a proper "parent unit" when you unload it at its destination.  B.  Go to an earlier saved game and try again.  C.  Land the loaded fragments, recombine, and try again.

Good luck!





This probably is a ghost unit from a parent unit dying from attrition - however, if LowCommand says this is NOT the case, then something else is going on.

If it is a ghost unit, you can do nothing with it. It should eventually vanish.

(in reply to Oldguard1970)
Post #: 15
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 4:26:05 PM   
Rainer

 

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
Status: offline 		In my campaigns Allied vs Japanese AI I see this happen always with a couple of units.
These units so far have always been Engineer units (currently 117, 122, 123, 125 USN Base Force all at Solomon Islands, Game Date August 1944. In another campaign it's the 116 USN Base Force and some Engineer Units of South East Asia, Game Date July 1945).
The units are not fragments.
Nothing under computer control, so this is not causing it.
Could be an OOB error.
I believe this is a bug ( and I'm surprised rtrapasso never heard of it).
However, this bug is not a game breaker. I can live with it.

What I do when this bug bites: I load from the unit in question as much as a usual transport TF can load. Most engineer units fit on a 6000 TF, so I load the unit onto such a TF. The unit is then transported to wherever I need it. This part of the unit can be used as usual.
The reminder of the unit is left wherever it happened to be. Even if the remnants are tiny (as in your example) the load coast still will be shown as very high. From that point on I don't bother about this anymore.

No bad consequenses experienced. Again, a bug I can live with (probably and hopefully fixed with AE).



(in reply to LowCommand)
Post #: 16
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 8:00:02 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		I had an intersting one pop up in a game I have going right now. I had divided the 4th division at Singapore and a turn later the "A" regiment teleported itself to southern Borneo (to an enemy controlled base no less). I tried several times to move it back to Singapore but it refused to go. The first time I finally got it all to Singapore it again teleported itself this time to Makasar (which I did control). Every time I tried to move it after that it bounced right back there. Finally I had the "A" parent on the base and - AND mind you - the "a" parent on an over loaded AP (was loaded to 200+%). I finally loaded up the "B" and "C" regiments and moved them to Makasar and recombined them. When I did that, the "parent" on the transports went away. Frankly I was surprised it let me re-combine the unit.

_____________________________


(in reply to Rainer)
Post #: 17
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 9:14:11 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

In my campaigns Allied vs Japanese AI I see this happen always with a couple of units.
These units so far have always been Engineer units (currently 117, 122, 123, 125 USN Base Force all at Solomon Islands, Game Date August 1944. In another campaign it's the 116 USN Base Force and some Engineer Units of South East Asia, Game Date July 1945).
The units are not fragments.
Nothing under computer control, so this is not causing it.
Could be an OOB error.
I believe this is a bug ( and I'm surprised rtrapasso never heard of it).
However, this bug is not a game breaker. I can live with it.

What I do when this bug bites: I load from the unit in question as much as a usual transport TF can load. Most engineer units fit on a 6000 TF, so I load the unit onto such a TF. The unit is then transported to wherever I need it. This part of the unit can be used as usual.
The reminder of the unit is left wherever it happened to be. Even if the remnants are tiny (as in your example) the load coast still will be shown as very high. From that point on I don't bother about this anymore.

No bad consequenses experienced. Again, a bug I can live with (probably and hopefully fixed with AE).




Well, i am not sure this is the same bug... i've never seen something like this unless it was a ghost unit... however, if you have a unit that is doing this in your game, it might be nice to show a screen shot to compare it.

You can get very high load costs if a unit upgrades to have static pieces of equipment (i.e. 6" CD guns) which happen in Base Force/Engineer units, but these are usually Dutch units, not USN BF's.

(in reply to Rainer)
Post #: 18
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 10:45:07 PM   
Rainer

 

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
Status: offline 		Thanks for your interest

I attach a screen with one those units. Another one in the next post.
The images are fairly poor because of upload limits. If you want to I can send you a complete save so you have all the details.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rainer -- 1/21/2009 10:54:45 PM >

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 19
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 10:47:25 PM   
Rainer

 

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
Status: offline 		Sized it a bit ...




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Rainer)
Post #: 20
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/21/2009 10:49:13 PM   
Rainer

 

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
Status: offline 		And here is another one (and BTW it's the USAAF 122, not USN as I wrote before ...)





Attachment (1)

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 21
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/22/2009 2:01:43 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

And here is another one (and BTW it's the USAAF 122, not USN as I wrote before ...)





Hmmm... this doesn't appear to be the same bug... is this stock? i don't recognize the CPS-1 radar.

In the bug that LowCommand showed, it is pretty obvious that the unit total load cost should be close to zero, but they are large (9999+)... in the examples you show, i suspect the unit load cost might come to something near what the computer has calculated.

(in reply to Rainer)
Post #: 22
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/22/2009 2:29:30 AM   
LowCommand

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: VA
Status: offline
Sorry I'm late replying, I'm retired, but they ask me to come back occasionally. The main portion of both these units are alive and well. I have tried recombining 3rd DAF. It recombined just fine, but when I tried to move it again, blip - it re-fragmented. This bug isn't a game breaker, just a mild annoyance. Here is 3rd DAF, complete, after recombination, attempted movement and recombination again.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Mines reported in the fairway,
"Warn all traffic and detain,
"'Sent up Unity, Cralibel, Assyrian, Stormcock, and Golden Gain."

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 23
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/22/2009 2:32:26 AM   
LowCommand

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: VA
Status: offline 		Sorry I posted a screen capture of the wrong unit. The correct jpg is below.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by LowCommand -- 1/22/2009 3:02:22 AM >

_____________________________

"Mines reported in the fairway,
"Warn all traffic and detain,
"'Sent up Unity, Cralibel, Assyrian, Stormcock, and Golden Gain."

(in reply to LowCommand)
Post #: 24
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/22/2009 2:47:04 AM   
LowCommand

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: VA
Status: offline

WOOOOOOOOOOPS! Sorry, BELOW is the Main portion of USAAF unit, with the bug in !!progress!!

< Message edited by LowCommand -- 1/22/2009 3:10:43 AM >

_____________________________

"Mines reported in the fairway,
"Warn all traffic and detain,
"'Sent up Unity, Cralibel, Assyrian, Stormcock, and Golden Gain."

(in reply to LowCommand)
Post #: 25
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/22/2009 2:49:36 AM   
LowCommand

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: VA
Status: offline 		ONE MORE TIME SORRY Maybe I shouldn't be in such a rush, I don't DO this often.







As you can see, most of the unit is on the AK's with just the buggy bit still on "land." It took me a little while to find this save.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by LowCommand -- 1/22/2009 3:07:54 AM >

_____________________________

"Mines reported in the fairway,
"Warn all traffic and detain,
"'Sent up Unity, Cralibel, Assyrian, Stormcock, and Golden Gain."

(in reply to LowCommand)
Post #: 26
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/22/2009 3:30:15 AM   
Rainer

 

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
Status: offline 		Stock, latest version (1.806).
The load costs for all ship types are prohibitive.
34,000 load points to load on APs? That's more than a whole USMC division.

I probably should have send a screenshot of the 117 USN Base Force. Here it's probably clearer to see (88 heads and some guns need 30,000 load points for AP).




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rainer -- 1/22/2009 3:33:07 AM >

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 27
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/22/2009 3:39:13 AM   
Rainer

 

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
Status: offline 		And here the TOE for the 117th. The big guns (155) shouldn't be there to begin with.
It's a bug.
But one of the milder species.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Rainer)
Post #: 28
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/22/2009 10:19:13 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

Stock, latest version (1.806).
The load costs for all ship types are prohibitive.
34,000 load points to load on APs? That's more than a whole USMC division.

I probably should have send a screenshot of the 117 USN Base Force. Here it's probably clearer to see (88 heads and some guns need 30,000 load points for AP).




OK - now THIS is looking to be the same or similar bug...

EDIT: Not sure why the load cost number is off so much... it has been noted in the past that the numbers as not terribly accurate, but this is ridiculous! i also note that the strength calculations show the unit to be at 79/100 stength - which should mean all the squads in the TOE are present (but 21% disabled)... certainly, that is WAY off here, but the game might be including some of the units still on ships, (i think). Perhaps the game is including the units on ships for purposes for calculation of load costs, although it shouldn't do that.

The bug shouldn't effect gameplay TOO much - you should be able to load individual squads and guns and transport them... when you get down to the last bit, though, you might end up with something like only the Commanding Officer present with a load cost of 9999...

Supposedly, the fragment with the most intact Support Squads will become the parent (it may take a turn to switch), which makes me think that LowCommand's problem still has to do with attrition (since the parent here has NO support squads)... but Rainer's screenshot interestingly shows a parent unit with NO support squads as well...

i am wondering if perhaps something similar is going on, i.e., that the unit shown in the screenshot became parent after the original parent was eliminated (either from attrition or combat.) Perhaps when this happens, something peculiar is happening due to the lack of support units... the only examples i've looked at in detail in the past had units with at least some support squads present.

So, Rainer - did the parent unit for the 117th USN BF get eliminated previously?



< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 1/22/2009 11:41:15 AM >

(in reply to Rainer)
Post #: 29
RE: Unit Remnant Size 9999 Unloadable - Known Bug? - 1/22/2009 11:47:34 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

And here the TOE for the 117th. The big guns (155) shouldn't be there to begin with.
It's a bug.
But one of the milder species.


Maybe not - the TOE that is displayed in game is the original TOE... if a unit upgrades to new guns, etc., it generally is NOT reflected in the TOE that the game displays. This is a pain, but not (necessarily) a bug (since it is working as designed.)

In this case, i think the unit upgraded to 155 mm guns from 5" CD guns.

The only way to really know what the TOE is at any given time (except for perhaps the very beginning of the game) is to look at the unit with the Scenario Editor (i think). If someone has another way, let me know.

(in reply to Rainer)
Post #: 30
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