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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> RHS economy Page: [1]
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RHS economy - 2/5/2009 12:37:08 AM   
johanb

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 2/2/2009
From: Stuttgart, DE
Status: offline 		Why are there so many more oil and resources in RHS than in basic game and CHS? Palembang has ~3000 and other places have many more too. Do these produce less than 6 and 1.25 per day like in basic game? Do you need more for industry?

Post #: 1
RE: RHS economy - 2/5/2009 1:16:57 AM   
khyberbill


Posts: 1941
Joined: 9/11/2007
From: new milford, ct
Status: offline 		It is an alternate history game. Lots of "what ifs".

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Post #: 2
RE: RHS economy - 2/5/2009 6:22:02 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		johanb,

In RHS, each raw material centre produces the same quantum of raw materials per centre.  You will see significant differences in industry and raw material facilities from stock/CHS because there is an attempt to place greater weight on the overall handling of logistics.

Alfred

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Post #: 3
RE: RHS economy - 2/5/2009 9:28:18 AM   
Mistmatz

 

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

It is an alternate history game. Lots of "what ifs".



Actually I believe the 'R' in RHS stands for real or realistic. So I'd say this is not a 'what if', it's just not simplified to the same degree as it was in stock.

Of course all mods and even stock struggles with game mechanics and have to simplify or get around certain issues in different ways to provide an enjoyable game.

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Post #: 4
RE: RHS economy - 2/5/2009 10:51:05 AM   
Bogo Mil

 

Posts: 286
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline 		You have huge amounts of oil in RHS. The only limit is the transportation of oil, production isn't. Provided you capture most oil centers on Borneo intact, this island alone is enough to feed Japan... Thus you'll never have to repair damaged oil. Ressources are not that abundant, but you have more than you need, too. But HI is very limited - you should probably use some of the safed supplies (from not repairing any oil) to expand the heavy industry.

I don't really know why the RHS economy is that ... strange. I guess they used real world data for the output of oil fields etc, regardless of the needs of the game engine. El Cid once wrote something like "We get the data right, Matrix shall get the code right."

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Post #: 5
RE: RHS economy - 2/5/2009 12:21:27 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline 		Johanb, you have more oil and you have less free supplies. The heavy industry will have to produce the supplies (along with the ressource centers). And to run the heavy industry you need that oil. As others have said, El Cid Again was logistically-oriented (which was a good thing, in my opinion).

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Post #: 6
RE: RHS economy - 2/5/2009 1:56:22 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I'm playing vs the AI as the Allies in RHS and it is now near the end of 2/42. I didn't want to start a PBEM game as I wait for AE to come out.

I have played stock, CHS, Big B's mod, and RHS. The economy for the Allies is not an issue that is addressed in other mods, but is in RHS. In the other mods, the Allies can just pull up to the piers in San Fran and say, "fill her up." Now a TF of AK's cannot be filled up as it will draw down my supplies somewhere on the WC below 2x levels. I figure by 1 July 42 most of the repairs will be done to the various centers and the war can proceed at a faster rate. Some damaged centers will take most of the war to fully repair. It is easy to forget that when G'canal was attacked in 8/42, it was done on a shoestring - very little extra fuel and supplies and TK to support it.

It takes one month to get Resources from the WC to New Orleans and another to return. My first group of 10k capacity AKs has just returned to the WC. The early war damaged aircraft factories have finally repaired and I get to keep those extra supplies. In RHS, my major shortage is supplies. New Orleans is now swimming in Resources (it doesn't produce any on it's own), but is where most of my exportable supplies are being produced.

I think the Allied economy in WitP should require more micro-management and I enjoy the early war challenge of doing so.

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 7
RE: RHS economy - 2/5/2009 2:07:00 PM   
Bogo Mil

 

Posts: 286
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline 		Just turn off all repair except aircraft production and repair shipyards. Your supply situation will improve immediately. I play against the AI, too. Doint this, I never have any supply problems in CONUSA, can happlily fill my convoys to Oz etc.

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Post #: 8
RE: RHS economy - 2/5/2009 3:44:52 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline 		Bogo, I don't think he should turn off the repair thing. If he doesn't (and that's what I did), the situation will improve on summer (june, july): the numbers will not be in orange, red.


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Post #: 9
RE: RHS economy - 2/5/2009 4:37:59 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I'll only have 16 to 18 centers to repair after 1 July 42 in the USA (not counting New Orleans). That includes 5 Repair Shipyards. Some of those short term repairs will be completed in the next 30 days (5). The first of the large AKs have arrived back in the USA with supply from New Orleans (80k to Seattle and 60k to San Fran) with another 50k going to Pearl. The two large Resource centers at Aberdeen and Astoria still have 360 damaged and will be turned on after 1 July 42. I've turned the corner and things are smoothing out nicely. 

My three South America bases are supporting each others to finish up their repairs and I get that free supply in the next few months to add in.

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Post #: 10
RE: RHS economy - 2/5/2009 4:40:22 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Wow, the Allies are actually "thinking" about supply.  Welcome to our world.  

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Post #: 11
RE: RHS economy - 2/5/2009 4:52:09 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		It's a good mod, but you're only allowed to fix the mess at start not enjoy things like speeding up production of ships, adjusting aircraft production, expanding the economy, etc. In a sense all the work w/o the reward.

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Post #: 12
RE: RHS economy - 2/5/2009 8:56:39 PM   
Mistmatz

 

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline 		It's true there are lots of toys you cannot use on the allied side due to game mechanics limitation.

Nevertheless, for the allies supplies and shipping capacity in general will be a worry for quite a time. This is indeed very different from other mods and stock and in my opinion a realistic and welcomed challenge.

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Post #: 13
RE: RHS economy - 2/5/2009 9:11:58 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I'm almost three months into it and I will say that there may not be enough HI on map OR too much Oil and Resources available. My only shortage is supplies. It will take almost 300k worth of supplies to repair the NZ economy. The east coast of Australia from Brisbane north will need supplies to repair damaged Resource centers a few a few HI, but I have to kill all those AI subs that are staying near the shoreline. 

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Post #: 14
RE: RHS economy - 2/5/2009 9:16:41 PM   
ChickenOfTheSea


Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		Human opponents can cause the same trouble as well. I really need supplies into Townsville as well, but the submarine menace is significant and annoying.

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Post #: 15
RE: RHS economy - 2/5/2009 9:29:14 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea

Human opponents can cause the same trouble as well. I really need supplies into Townsville as well, but the submarine menace is significant and annoying.


It's worse in the latest release--el cid figured out how to denerf sub ops. Now every harbour has its resident enemy sub!

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Post #: 16
RE: RHS economy - 2/6/2009 8:35:12 AM   
Bogo Mil

 

Posts: 286
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline 		Why would you repair resource plants or heavy industry? You don't need the ressources (there is more than enough in Oz to feed New Zealand etc.), all you need is supplies. Repairing a plant costs 1000 points, and it gives you 1 point per turn. In other words, an investment made in jan 42 will pay off in oct 1944 - plus the time you need to ship the stuff to the front. Thats much too late, imho. Investments made after nov 42 will not pay off at all before the historical armistice. You pay a lot in a critical time, when your transport capacity is still limited - and you'll see the profit when it won't make much of a difference any more. Repaired HI would produce some extra fuel, too. But I don't see any fuel problems. West coast and the offmap areas already produce huge amounts.

I turned off these repairs all over the map on day 1, and it works very well (I'm in 5/42 now). West Coast can export large amounts of supplies. I'll never have to ship anything from New Orleans to West Coast. New Orleans produces more supplies than I can move - even though I didn't bother much about sending ressources, yet. Should I ever run low, I can boost the production there by sending enough ressources.

I send oil from New Orleans and Muscat to Oz, India, New Zealand and Aden, and I send some ressources to New Zealand (from Oz). The existing factories there shall produce at full capacity.

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Post #: 17
RE: RHS economy - 2/6/2009 1:02:21 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I turned off these repairs all over the map on day 1, and it works very well (I'm in 5/42 now)


I have followed RHS development for a long time and I would imagine that your Allied troops will face a severe shortage of fuel and supplies in '44 or before. El Cid made this mod a game about logistics and the Allied war machine should ramp up production of fuel and supplies. Let me know how things look in 18 months.

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Post #: 18
RE: RHS economy - 2/6/2009 2:19:50 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline 		In my opinion not repairing is a mistake. If you repair you will have much more supplies. El Cid Again was supposed to do his homework. I mean, these extra supplies (when everything is repaired) will be needed later (as stated by ny59giants).

And believe me, I did repair everything since day 1. AND you still can send supplies abroad (from West Coast). I mean, no big catastrophe. You just don't have astronomical quantities of supplies since day 1, which is ok: it simulates the shortage of many things (industry not ready, etc.) when the war starts.

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 2/6/2009 2:20:24 PM >

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Post #: 19
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