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Forward Observer and arty

 
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Forward Observer and arty - 5/8/2002 9:07:09 PM   
Mangobreeder

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 5/8/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline 		Hey peeps,

ibe only been playing a week, so please forgive any stupid things i may say.

Howerver i would like to know how to use FO and onboard arty suck as a 50mm motar, it stuff like that done automatically or do i have to do stuff.

An IDIOTS guide would be very gratefully recivied,

Also if u have time, whats the best was to clear a villiage, apart from bombing the hell out if it, for example in one senario, i have villiag i ahave to attack, but inorder to shoot at the buildings i have to get right next to it, which wastes a lot of assets. Its this part of the game or am i doing some it horrificaly dumb.

please dont be afraid to call me dumb, im not proud and want to learn

Many thanks

Mango

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Post #: 1
- 5/8/2002 9:25:36 PM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		Hey,

Newbe doesn't mean 'stupid', just inexperienced. If you have 7.1, fight the tutorial scenarios first. These will teach you how to use the various units, including arty, in the game. You can read about the tutorials in the manual, I believe. If you still have questions, you will get tons of help here. Welcome aboard, and drop the 'stupid' stuff, k?:)

Goblin- A Goblin says practice makes perfect

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Post #: 2
Check out - 5/8/2002 9:51:14 PM   
Gary Tatro

 

Posts: 1213
Joined: 2/1/2002
From: MA, US
Status: offline 		The hall of fame post on simplton tips for various helpful hints. As far as artilary it does require your specific direction. To be quick Click on the FO then on the bonbardment icon on the right side of the screen. You will not be able to click on the bonbardment icon if your FO is out of contact. (when you click on him look down in the left hand courner for info)
Clearing towns best done with Artillary and infantry. A neet trick is to bombard with artillary, crash though the buildings with tanks carring infantry, then pop the infantry out and blast away at the poor people who just had a building fall on them.

Lastly if you know where units are in a building you can fire at the hex using the direct fire icon on the right of the screen looks like a target icon. This will use up a lot of shots but you can suppress and do damage to hidden troops.

Hope this helps, have fun and welcome.

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Post #: 3
- 5/9/2002 10:27:34 AM   
RayM

 

Posts: 310
Joined: 10/19/2000
From: Marlton, NJ USA
Status: offline 		Don't worry about being a new guy. Everyone started out at some point.

Enjoy and don't be afraid to ask questions.

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Post #: 4
- 5/9/2002 6:32:25 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Welcome aboard Mangobreeder.

As for the "stupid", there are no stupid questions, only stupid replies (such as mine :D )

If you're talking about the platoon 50mm mortar squad (with GE platoons), you can't assign targets from the FO (or in the arty assignment screen)- you have to use the Platoon leader squad. It's a platoon support weapon.

tip: I find them too slow and luggish with too short a range, so when playing campaigns, upgrade them to MMG's as soon as possible

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Post #: 5
- 5/9/2002 8:48:46 PM   
Mangobreeder

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 5/8/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline 		Thanks people, got it licked now.

noticed that an FO in a command car is ok, as it is fast enough to keep out of danger but do lose the odd one :(

and a sniper with everything turned off, makes a great scout ive had the enemy walk straight past him, and i stalingrad mission 2 where u have to capture the bridge, i snuck him it so the infantry hiding in the houses did now wipe out my tanks :)

they got burnt to a crisp with a flamerpanzer, gave me a hankering for KFC though
any better tips?

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Post #: 6
- 5/9/2002 11:33:12 PM   
Capt Chris

 

Posts: 200
Joined: 2/4/2002
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline 		FYI - Your FO doesn't actually have to see where he is calling in the arty. As far as how accurate the arty is is another issue but it doesn't drift "that" far. This is good when you only have one FO.

I think they are changing this in CL but am not sure. IMHO, the spotter should HAVE TO be able to see the area they are targeting to call it in. The way it is now is like taking "sound shots" while deer hunting. You just don't do it.

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Post #: 7
- 5/10/2002 1:14:08 AM   
bigtroutz


Posts: 2417
Joined: 4/22/2001
From: Montana, USA
Status: offline 		i kinda disagree about FO's not being able to call in NON-LOS arty

you can think of a squad's request for arty direct to arty commander as a low priority, but the FO acting as a clearing house for multiple arty missions from squad & company officers. and since the FO has the arty-commander's "ear" his missions have priority. this would be similar for Naval Gunfire Teams, Forward Air Controller, etc. There would be no trouble for a company or squad to send a runner or phone or radio the FO with target coordinates in this way, and the game correctly shows the arty as NON-LOS, as opposed to LOS from the FO

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Post #: 8
- 5/10/2002 3:33:19 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		I agree with bigtroutz. If an FO gets a call for fire on a spot he can't see, he can still plot it on his map, and call it for the arty guys.

"We need fire support now!" CrackCrack! Pow! "They're tearin' us up!"

"Roger that Alpha. Send coordinates." FO starts walking so he can LOS the fire.

"They're in the woods right in front of my position!" Rat-ta-tattattattat.PowPow.Crack! "Get those guns fired up, or we're gonna be overrun!"

"Roger. Firing your coordinates plus 50. Get your heads down Alpha. Good Luck." FO stops, calls in the fire with his map, no LOS.

"Hug dirt boys!! Artys on its way!!" Fire not very accurate, but it got there! Platoon saved.

Goblin- A Goblin deviates off target sometimes:)

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Post #: 9
- 5/10/2002 8:54:01 AM   
Capt Chris

 

Posts: 200
Joined: 2/4/2002
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline 		I guess I should be a little more specific. I can place my FO at the far left edge of the map and call in fire missions on the far right edge of the map suffering no delay penalties ( standard for the country of course ).

The game assumes that the FO is in constant contact with all units on the board and can direct artillery for all of them. This is what I think is wrong.

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Post #: 10
- 5/10/2002 7:00:13 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Belisarius
[B]Welcome aboard Mangobreeder.

As for the "stupid", there are no stupid questions, only stupid replies (such as mine :D )

If you're talking about the platoon 50mm mortar squad (with GE platoons), you can't assign targets from the FO (or in the arty assignment screen)- you have to use the Platoon leader squad. It's a platoon support weapon.

tip: I find them too slow and luggish with too short a range, so when playing campaigns, upgrade them to MMG's as soon as possible [/B][/QUOTE]

On the other hand they do provide a vialble AT capability at the platoon level much better than the hand grenade in the squads.

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Post #: 11
Yes, but... - 5/10/2002 7:27:17 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by pbear
[B]

On the other hand they do provide a vialble AT capability at the platoon level much better than the hand grenade in the squads. [/B][/QUOTE]

...so do Panzerfausts ;)

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Post #: 12
- 5/10/2002 7:56:11 PM   
Mangobreeder

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 5/8/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline 		thanks for hte advice guys, however, whats the usual waiting timefor rounds to land, i guess itvaries from gun to gun, and am i cirrect in assuming light arty lays shells down faster than heavy, and its better totarget a bit head of a moving collumn etc.

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Post #: 13
- 5/10/2002 9:38:01 PM   
bigtroutz


Posts: 2417
Joined: 4/22/2001
From: Montana, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mangobreeder
[B]thanks for hte advice guys, however, whats the usual waiting timefor rounds to land, i guess itvaries from gun to gun, and am i cirrect in assuming light arty lays shells down faster than heavy, and its better totarget a bit head of a moving collumn etc. [/B][/QUOTE]

FO/NGT called arty is generally MUCH faster than that called by CO commander and again by a squad(=slowest).
when you dont have a FO, you can decrease the delay by assigning the arty fire unit by arty unit. in other words, if you call fire by clicking the 81mm mortar unit and assign its fire, the delay will be much lower than if you had a leg squad call its fire. The utility of decreasing delay is enormous: if you can land rounds on a unit in under or = .4, you supress the unit before it gets to move & fire....if it moves, you wasted ammo, if it fires, you can take loses.

delay varies quite a bit.... but certain types of arty seem to be faster than others...not necessarily by size. for instance, japanese 81mm mortars generally seem to be faster than knee mortars

fastest = USA FO/NGT directed with no suppression = .1 - .4 for mortars to .2 - .5 for some large cal guns like naval gunfire to .3 - 1.1 and hier for some airstrikes from same FO

slower = i have seen 1.6 delays for Jap FO calling unsupressed 120mm mortars

i assume there is some kind of "dice roll" since often same caliber arty can have different delays on the same turn with all conditions the same. eg (5) 155mm btty = .4 + (1) 155mm btty = .3

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Post #: 14
Don't disregard Experience - 5/12/2002 2:47:07 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Experience plays a major role in reducing Arty delay time. It improves battery access and reduces adjustment penalties, too.

I often purchase two FOs just in hopes that one has halfway decent experience (ie. reduced delay times). There's usually enough variation in experience to make one unit substantially better.

When playing with C&C On - I like to purchase at least one FO for each 4-6 arty units. I use up orders from front line units to call in nearby continuous FFE. Then use the precious few orders from the FOs to call in new barrages and make adjustments to existing FFE. (BTW, adjusting FFE cost no orders, but FOs are just better at it than any other units)

I tend to keep my FOs out of harms way. I've never seen evidence of improved performance on their part if they can actually see the target hex. At least not so much that I'd risk their necks on the front line. ;)

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Post #: 15
- 6/3/2003 5:30:55 AM   
arethusa

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 5/12/2003
From: GTA, Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by bigtroutz
[B]delay varies quite a bit.... but certain types of arty seem to be faster than others...not necessarily by size. for instance, japanese 81mm mortars generally seem to be faster than knee mortars

fastest = USA FO/NGT directed with no suppression = .1 - .4 for mortars to .2 - .5 for some large cal guns like naval gunfire to .3 - 1.1 and hier for some airstrikes from same FO

slower = i have seen 1.6 delays for Jap FO calling unsupressed 120mm mortars

i assume there is some kind of "dice roll" since often same caliber arty can have different delays on the same turn with all conditions the same. eg (5) 155mm btty = .4 + (1) 155mm btty = .3 [/B][/QUOTE]

Somewhere I saw that the game manual does state that there is a kind of "dice roll" to determine the delay or even the availablitiy of OB artillery. The reason for this was that OB artillery is not actually attached to the units that are 'on-board', the way that your on-board arty is. Because of that, sometimes it's engaged in another fire mission and has to finish that before it can do the new mission you're calling up.

Alternatively, sometimes it's designated as currently involved in 'counter-battery fire' with other OB units and is therefore too busy to take your mission.

This is all realistic. One possibility that wasn't inculded is that the OB arty may be in the process of changing positions and it takes it a while to move and set-up in the new spot. When I was in the arty, we had to do this constantly. Never fired more than a few missions from one position without upping anchor and going somewhere else in order to reduce the chances of being targeted by the enemy.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Capt. Pixel
[B]I tend to keep my FOs out of harms way. I've never seen evidence of improved performance on their part if they can actually see the target hex. At least not so much that I'd risk their necks on the front line.[/B][/QUOTE]

FO called arty seems to be more accurate if the FO has a LOS. It doesn't spread out as much, especially with subsequent missions. The delay is the same regardless of LOS or not though.

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Post #: 16
FO exp - 6/3/2003 11:44:33 PM   
robot


Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline 		I think i once read on this forum that exp for troops and tanks , was gained by kills they made and how much involved in the fight they are. In other words how many times they fired there weapons. How does a fo gain exp in this game. Does he gain some from how many fire missions he calls in. You deffinatly dont want him engaged in any fighting.

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Post #: 17
Re: Don't disregard Experience - 6/4/2003 12:32:37 AM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Capt. Pixel
[B]Experience plays a major role in reducing Arty delay time. It improves battery access and reduces adjustment penalties, too.

I often purchase two FOs just in hopes that one has halfway decent experience (ie. reduced delay times). There's usually enough variation in experience to make one unit substantially better.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Quite right, Cap'n P.

I usually by three FO's for medium battles, because there's a good chance you'll end up with a veteran (+90 exp) that'll call in arty on a 0.2-0.4 delay, and you'll also have a good chance of having at least one FO in radio contact...:rolleyes:

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Post #: 18
Don't disreguard sneakyness - 6/4/2003 12:54:47 AM   
Gary Tatro

 

Posts: 1213
Joined: 2/1/2002
From: MA, US
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Belisarius
[B]Quite right, Cap'n P.

I usually by three FO's for medium battles, because there's a good chance you'll end up with a veteran (+90 exp) that'll call in arty on a 0.2-0.4 delay, and you'll also have a good chance of having at least one FO in radio contact...:rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]

Psst, Psst, Psst hey you, yeah you. Bel, if you put an FO next to your HQ-A0. He will always be in contact. :) Shhhh this is our little secret.:D

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Post #: 19
Re: Don't disreguard sneakyness - 6/4/2003 12:58:53 AM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gary Tatro
[B]Psst, Psst, Psst hey you, yeah you. Bel, if you put an FO next to your HQ-A0. He will always be in contact. :) Shhhh this is our little secret.:D [/B][/QUOTE]

Huh? Ohhhhhhh........ :D:D:D

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Post #: 20
Gary is wise in the ways of SPWAW - 6/4/2003 1:41:15 AM   
Gary Tatro

 

Posts: 1213
Joined: 2/1/2002
From: MA, US
Status: offline 		Hmmmmm, stong is the force in this one.:D

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Post #: 21
- 6/6/2003 10:15:16 PM   
Wolfleader

 

Posts: 94
Joined: 10/31/2002
Status: offline 		to use your FO's just select them before going to your bombardment menu, you'll notice that the number of turns needed for the artillery to begin falling on the target is reduced. The more experienced your FO the more the time needed for a bombardment is reduced. Also if the hex you've selected for bombardment is in your FO's line of sight then the bombardment will be much more accurate.

As for the 50mm mortar, it has pretty poor range and doesn't do much damage but its usefull for close quarters combat since it doesn't fall all over the place and you don't risk suffering as much friendly fire damage.

One thing that you should never do is expect your artillery to destroy enemy units for you. Their there to suppress and rout enemy units before your regular units come in and destroy them.

As for clearing the village, just bombard and raze it to the ground
if you've got heavier mortars (81 mm mortars) than your 50 use 'em. If you've got offboard heavy artillery (105mm and higher ) all the better. Before sending your infantry troops in to take out whatever infantry units may be lurking inside. If you run into any stubborn pockets of resistance, pull your guys back out then repeat the preceeding steps.

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Post #: 22
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