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That's not a quiz....this is a quiz - 5/12/2002 12:48:06 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

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Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		Since the 15th seems to be retreating, and the forum is reduced to algebra quizzes (nice questions BTW), I thought I might as well post a quiz I did for one of my grogier (read that how you like) parties some while ago. It's a quotation quiz, some UV relevant(ish), some less so :).

Should be fairly easy for you walking libraries out there!

Who said or wrote the following, and about whom? (Two marks each).

S1. Mad is he? Then I hope he will bite some of my other generals.

S2. A man who hath had his hand very deep in the blood of many innocent men.

S3. There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today, _______.

S4. In defeat unbeatable; in victory unbearable.

S5. There is ______, standing like a stone wall. Let us determine to die here, and we will conquer.

S6. Brilliant to the top of his army boots.

S7. In this country it is thought proper to kill an admiral from time to time, to encourage the others.

S8. By many degrees, the greatest soldier on record.

S9. _______ was the only man on either side who could lose the war in an afternoon.

Part 2. Who said, or wrote the following (one mark each).

S10. I have tremendous admiration for Caesar. But …I myself belong rather to the class of Bismarcks.

S11. I know I have the body of a weak and feeble woman, but I have the stomach of a king….

S12. Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds. (modern quote, not original source).

S13. Scratch one flat top. (bonus point for the occasion - and I mean exactly, not just the battle!).

S14. I shall return. (better have occasion, date, and what he had in his pocket for this one, given the forum!)

S15. All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable…..

S16. I've lost my leg, Egad! ( & Occasion?)

S17. Peccavi. ( & Occasion?)

S18. My dear McClellan, If you don't want to use the army, I should like to borrow it for a while.

S19. The enemy came. He was beaten. I am tired. Good night.

S20. And Finally, which operation caused R W Thompson to write:
In fact, Montgomery's decision to mount the operation…. was as startling as it would have been for an elderly and saintly Bishop suddenly to decide to take up safe-breaking and begin on the Bank of England.

(More fun than maths huh....although Maths is fun too, so maybe I'll do one on that next!

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Post #: 1
- 5/12/2002 1:20:56 AM   
Supervisor

 

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Status: offline 		S1. James Wolfe to King George II. I think
S4. Winston Churchill to Montgomery

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Post #: 2
- 5/12/2002 1:38:49 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

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Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by gmenfan
[B]S1. James Wolfe to King George II. I think
S4. Winston Churchill to Montgomery [/B][/QUOTE]


1: Close, actually George II about Wolfe
4: yes (altough I don't think he actually said it to him!

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Post #: 3
- 5/12/2002 1:52:36 AM   
Supervisor

 

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Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		S4 It might of been about him instead
S1 Your right had it backwards it was when King George II was telling it to an English court.

S13 Commander Dixon of the Lexington to radio the immortal words "Dixon to carrier: Scratch one Flat Top" during The Battle of the Coral Sea

S15 Sun Tzu's Art of War

S12 The Bhagavad-Gita, quote by Dr. J. Robert Oppenheimer

S11 Elizabeth I Speech to the Troops at Tilbury

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No more questions - 5/12/2002 2:00:59 AM   
U2


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Joined: 7/17/2001
From: Västerås,Sweden
Status: offline 		Hi

Please stop it with the questions already. Its making the wait even more painful.

Dan

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Post #: 5
S3 and ... - 5/12/2002 2:31:24 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		At first glimpse...
S3
Vice Admiral Sir David Beatty, to his flag captain Chatfield, on HMS Lion after HMS Queen Mary and HMS Indefatigable blew up at Jutland during the battlecruiser action. Your Warspite had a stearing casualty and was repeatedly hit during this battle, the first of her sterling career.

Pretty long list, let me get a coffee.:)

S20 Market Garden.

S9 Jellicoe. Statement refers to the exact timing required to deploy the Grand Fleet at Jutland.

S12 Oppenheimer.

S5 Jackson?

S13 Dixon to USS Lexington after nailing Shoho at Coral Sea.

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Re: That's not a quiz....this is a quiz - 5/12/2002 2:58:51 AM   
11Bravo


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Status: offline 		[QUOTE][B]

S18. My dear McClellan, If you don't want to use the army, I should like to borrow it for a while.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Lincoln.

BTW. The Civil War returns to PBS this fall. Great documentary. Remember to pledge to PBS (or at least pay your taxes). :D

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Post #: 7
- 5/12/2002 3:46:32 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by gmenfan
[B]S4 It might of been about him instead
S1 Your right had it backwards it was when King George II was telling it to an English court.

S13 Commander Dixon of the Lexington to radio the immortal words "Dixon to carrier: Scratch one Flat Top" during The Battle of the Coral Sea

S15 Sun Tzu's Art of War

S12 The Bhagavad-Gita, quote by Dr. J. Robert Oppenheimer

S11 Elizabeth I Speech to the Troops at Tilbury [/B][/QUOTE]

13 - yes, but which carrier?
15 - correct
12 - yes - on which occasion?
11 yes

so far so good.

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Re: S3 and ... - 5/12/2002 3:50:06 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ron Saueracker
[B]At first glimpse...
S3
Vice Admiral Sir David Beatty, to his flag captain Chatfield, on HMS Lion after HMS Queen Mary and HMS Indefatigable blew up at Jutland during the battlecruiser action. Your Warspite had a stearing casualty and was repeatedly hit during this battle, the first of her sterling career.

Pretty long list, let me get a coffee.:)

S20 Market Garden.

S9 Jellicoe. Statement refers to the exact timing required to deploy the Grand Fleet at Jutland.

S12 Oppenheimer.

S5 Jackson?

S13 Dixon to USS Lexington after nailing Shoho at Coral Sea. [/B][/QUOTE]

3 - spot on
20 correct (aka Arnhem)
12 corect (but when/why)
5 correct, but who said it?
13 spot on (7th May 1942 IIRC)
9 correct, although I am not sure it was absolutely specific to Jutland. Also who said (or wrote?) it?

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Re: Re: That's not a quiz....this is a quiz - 5/12/2002 3:51:23 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by 11Bravo
[B]

Lincoln.

BTW. The Civil War returns to PBS this fall. Great documentary. Remember to pledge to PBS (or at least pay your taxes). :D [/B][/QUOTE]

Spot on. I don't recall on what occasion - sometime in 1862? (anyone?)

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Re: S3 and ... - 5/12/2002 3:55:13 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ron Saueracker
[B]At first glimpse...
Your Warspite had a stearing casualty and was repeatedly hit during this battle, the first of her sterling career.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Give the guy a bonus point! :)
Warspite was hit whilst turning to port. She duly continued her turn for 720deg (IIRC), whilst under fire from the High Seas fleet. The turn had dropped her out of line TOWARDS the enemy! I think she took 13 large calibre hits, but made it home. This was the first of her wayward manoevres. Can anyone give me her last unplanned move?

Interesting aside - as well as My Dad coming home from Cape Town in convoy with Warspite (1942), I had a Biology teacher at school whose relation (grandfather?) was a Royal Marine in X turret at Jutland. He wrote a diary, and the teacher read from it once, at the end of term. The account of the battle was confused as you'd expect, but there was one bit where he noted the the bearing kept changing wildly. I think this is where the poor turret was trying to track the target whilst the ship did a Viennese Waltz all over the ocean!

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- 5/12/2002 5:30:19 AM   
stretch

 

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Status: offline 		S19

Vicomte Turenne, 1658 after the battle of Dunen

OK I cheated and looked it up, but I was just celebrating my new faster internet connection.

What’s interesting is that even though the quote is readily findable, any actual info about the battle itself is totally absent. Can anyone shed some light on the Battle of Dunen?

-Str.

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Post #: 12
- 5/12/2002 6:01:05 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by stretch
[B]S19

Vicomte Turenne, 1658 after the battle of Dunen

OK I cheated and looked it up, but I was just celebrating my new faster internet connection.

What’s interesting is that even though the quote is readily findable, any actual info about the battle itself is totally absent. Can anyone shed some light on the Battle of Dunen?

-Str. [/B][/QUOTE]

Spot on - and I cheated to set that one (I looked it up as well)
Full name of the guy was HENRI DE LA TOUR D'AUVERGNE, VICOMPTE DE TURENNE

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Post #: 13
- 5/12/2002 6:26:41 AM   
stretch

 

Posts: 636
Joined: 12/17/2001
Status: offline 		Ahh good I don't feel so bad!

Isn't it funny that when you google on the Battle of Dunen you get a few hits on people who have put the quote on their page, bit not one hit discussing the battle itself.....

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Re: Re: S3 and ... - 5/12/2002 6:46:54 AM   
Wolver

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 5/12/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by HMSWarspite
[B]

3 - spot on
20 correct (aka Arnhem)
12 corect (but when/why)
5 correct, but who said it?
13 spot on (7th May 1942 IIRC)
9 correct, although I am not sure it was absolutely specific to Jutland. Also who said (or wrote?) it? [/B][/QUOTE]


5 Southern troops retreating at (Bull Run?) General Bee saw Jackson and his troops holding their ground.

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Post #: 15
- 5/12/2002 9:57:29 AM   
Johnny Canuck

 

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From: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		7. Voltaire, on the execution of British Admiral John Byng for failure to relieve Minorca during the Seven Years' War.

9. I believe the quote is by Churchill, from his "World Crisis" (about Jellicoe obviously).

18. I believe that this was Lincoln to McClellan after the failure of the Seven Days' battles.


Here is an excerpt from a biographical entry on Turenne on the Battle of the Dunes:

"In 1657 Mazarin & Cromwell agreed to combine their separate wars against Spain, and concluded a strategy by whereby a joint force, aided by the English fleet, would attack the coastal towns of Mardyk, Dunkirk, and Gravelines. Mardyk quickly succumbed to Turenne's army, and he proceeded straight to Dunkirk, despite the Spanish attempts to halt him by opening the dykes. His investment of the city was threatened, however, by the arrival of a Spanish Netherlands relief force under Don John of Austria and Conde himself. Turenne's victory at the ensuing Battle of the Dunes was decisive; he used the change of the tide on the beach, where the right flank of the Spanish infantry was drawn up, to carry out a cavalry envelopment of the Spanish left flank, on the inland side. Knowing that he had little to fear from the Spanish on the beach, whose sole anxiety was to escape fire from the offshore English fleet and to avoid the suddenly encroaching tide, he was able to concentrate the main weight of his cavalry on the Spanish left. The battle, which lasted only four hours, resulted in casualties of only 400 men for Turenne and 6000 for the Spanish, who had fought against Conde's advice and without the bulf of their artillery. It was a brilliant manifestation of Turenne's ability to use and incorporate in his battle plan local or natural phenomena. It allowed him to go ont to capture Ypres and to threaten the great Flemish cities of Brussels and Ghent . . ."

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S3 - 5/12/2002 10:06:42 AM   
Ron Saueracker


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Status: offline 		HMS Warspite broke her towline on the way to the breakers, I beleive near you on the Cornish coastline. Ran aground and foundered I think.

Warspite...you are obviously a naval buff as well?

Darn. JC got Byng before me. One of the first examples of a miltary leader being used as a scapegoat for the poor policies of their superiors. Damned "Fighting Instructions". It took the efforts of Nelson, Howe, Rodney, Hawke, Hornblower, and Bolitho to throw them out the porthole!:D

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Re: S3 - 5/12/2002 10:36:55 AM   
Johnny Canuck

 

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From: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ron Saueracker
[B]Darn. JC got Byng before me. One of the first examples of a miltary leader being used as a scapegoat for the poor policies of their superiors. Damned "Fighting Instructions". It took the efforts of Nelson, Howe, Rodney, Hawke, Hornblower, and Bolitho to throw them out the porthole!:D [/B][/QUOTE]

Sorry about that. Good point about the "Fighting Instructions." It's a bit funny to think that by the late-1800s the evolution of command tactics & signalling in the RN led to just as rigid a system as before & led to the Camperdown/Victoria disaster & nearly resulted in the loss of the Queen Elizabeths at Jutland. Prime example of history always repeating itself!

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Post #: 18
- 5/12/2002 12:51:59 PM   
Supervisor

 

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Status: offline 		13 The Shóhó at 10:40 on the morning of May 4th 1942, is that specific enough?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HMSWarspite
[B]

13 - yes, but which carrier?
15 - correct
12 - yes - on which occasion?
11 yes

so far so good. [/B][/QUOTE]

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Post #: 19
- 5/12/2002 2:55:47 PM   
Supervisor

 

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Status: offline 		S4. Winston Churchill on Bernard Montgomery (nice list of quotes here: http://www.insults.net/html/political/winstonchurchill.html)

S6. David Lloyd George about General Douglas Haig, I believe following the 3rd Battle of Ypres (Passchendaele) (September, 1917)

S12. Robert Oppenheimer, on seeing the first atomic explosion at Alamogordo, New Mexico, on July 16, 1945

S14. MacArthur, the last part of a statement made to reporters after his escape from Corregidor in 1942

S16. Marquis of Anglesey to Wellington (Wellington's reply "By God sir, so you have")

S17. Charles Napier in a report to Britain after he had just conquered Scinde (India) (bad pun, baaaad pun) :D

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Re: Re: Re: S3 and ... - 5/12/2002 2:57:45 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

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Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wolver
[B]


5 Southern troops retreating at (Bull Run?) General Bee saw Jackson and his troops holding their ground. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes - 1st Bull Run is right as well.

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Post #: 21
- 5/12/2002 3:01:16 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
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From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Johnny Canuck
[B]7. Voltaire, on the execution of British Admiral John Byng for failure to relieve Minorca during the Seven Years' War.

9. I believe the quote is by Churchill, from his "World Crisis" (about Jellicoe obviously).

18. I believe that this was Lincoln to McClellan after the failure of the Seven Days' battles.


[/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, yes, and I don't know, but sounds about right.

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Re: S3 - 5/12/2002 3:04:48 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
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From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ron Saueracker
[B]HMS Warspite broke her towline on the way to the breakers, I beleive near you on the Cornish coastline. Ran aground and foundered I think.

Warspite...you are obviously a naval buff as well?

[/B][/QUOTE]
Correct, except she didn't founder, but was broken up in situ. If ever there was a 20th century British ship that should have been preserved.... Bankrupt countries can't afford such luxuries though!

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Re: Re: S3 - 5/12/2002 3:09:47 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Johnny Canuck
[B]

Sorry about that. Good point about the "Fighting Instructions." It's a bit funny to think that by the late-1800s the evolution of command tactics & signalling in the RN led to just as rigid a system as before & led to the Camperdown/Victoria disaster & nearly resulted in the loss of the Queen Elizabeths at Jutland. Prime example of history always repeating itself! [/B][/QUOTE]

I don't believe the Victoria and Camperdown was due to rigid tactics, so much as the fearsome reputation of Adm Tryon, and an well engrained reluctance to question command. The theory that I subscibe to (and the most accepted) is that he mixed up turning radius and diameter (having done it once before when younger (but got away with it), thus turning inwards with only half the room he should have had. There seems to have been only minimal attempt to question him by his bridge crew, and the other column were expecting orders to correct the situation, until too late. I don't see that this relates to fighting instructions or tactical rigidity.
[edit to correct a small cock-up]

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Post #: 24
- 5/12/2002 3:11:32 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

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Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by gmenfan
[B]13 The Shóhó at 10:40 on the morning of May 4th 1942, is that specific enough?

[/B][/QUOTE]
OK, you win! I thought that (guven the forum) we ought to get that one correct! ;)

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Post #: 25
- 5/12/2002 3:18:20 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
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From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rowlf
[B]S4. Winston Churchill on Bernard Montgomery (nice list of quotes here: http://www.insults.net/html/political/winstonchurchill.html)

S6. David Lloyd George about General Douglas Haig, I believe following the 3rd Battle of Ypres (Passchendaele) (September, 1917)

S12. Robert Oppenheimer, on seeing the first atomic explosion at Alamogordo, New Mexico, on July 16, 1945

S14. MacArthur, the last part of a statement made to reporters after his escape from Corregidor in 1942

S16. Marquis of Anglesey to Wellington (Wellington's reply "By God sir, so you have")

S17. Charles Napier in a report to Britain after he had just conquered Scinde (India) (bad pun, baaaad pun) :D [/B][/QUOTE]

4 - yes
6 - yes (although I don't know the occasion)
12 - yes
14 yes
16 - yes (I have seen his false leg, it is kept in a museum which IIRC was at Plas Newydd in Anglesey
17 - correct, Peccavi is (of course :)) the latin for I have sinned. (I always like "clever" signals. One day I may gather a list of really good ones, the RN had a habit of really clever ones at one point)

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Speaking of should have beens - 5/12/2002 8:27:30 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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Status: offline 		Yes, too bad Warspite was not preserved. Belfast is a beaut though. Saw her when in London a few years back. Next time I'm over (I've a Canadian mate who works for the BBC) I'm going to Portsmouth to see Victory and Warrior.

USS Enterprise should not have been scrapped in 1959. Even Halsey could not save her during the Cold War. Fear is an amazing thing. You would think preserving her would be worth more to help quell public uneasiness and marshall pride than a few more B52s...:(

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Post #: 27
Re: Re: Re: S3 - 5/13/2002 4:20:48 AM   
Johnny Canuck

 

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From: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by HMSWarspite
[B]

I don't believe the Victoria and Camperdown was due to rigid tactics, so much as the fearsome reputation of Adm Tryon, and an well engrained reluctance to question command. The theory that I subscibe to (and the most accepted) is that he mixed up turning radius and diameter (having done it once before when younger (but got away with it), thus turning inwards with only half the room he should have had. There seems to have been only minimal attempt to question him by his bridge crew, and the other column were expecting orders to correct the situation, until too late. I don't see that this relates to fighting instructions or tactical rigidity.
[edit to correct a small cock-up] [/B][/QUOTE]

I completely agree with your overview of the disaster; it certainly seems that Tryon made an simple but devastating mistake. However, I would say that the extreme reluctance to question Tryon by the bridge crew & the captain of HMS Camperdown was not an isolated incident, but was endemic in the pre-war RN & was a symptom of the general tactical rigidity. The ethos of "obey the admiral" that led to the loss of the Victoria was the same problem that led Evan-Thomas to not execute a turn together at the crucial moment at Jutland, and instead wait for Beatty's signaller to drop the signal for the turn. The tactical rigidity of the RN led Evan-Thomas to wait to execute the turn, despite the fact that in the wait for the signal to drop, the High Seas Fleet was able to close another 4000 yards & bring Evan-Thomas' Queen Elizabeths under fire as they executed their turn. It was a minor miracle that none of these ships were lost, as they were unsupported during the turn. The loss of HMS Victoria & this incident at Jutland are related, in that subordinates obeyed patently faulty orders & risked disaster. Both cases are related to the general tactical rigidty in the RN that emphasized the chain of command and penalized individual initiative.

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Post #: 28
- 5/16/2002 12:21:01 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

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Status: offline 		Because you are obviously going to read this thread, rather than play UV that you have just had delivered, here are the answers!

S1. Mad is he? Then I hope he will bite some of my other generals.
GEORGE II ABOUT JAMES WOLFE
S2. A man who hath had his hand very deep in the blood of many innocent men.
OLIVER CROMWELL ABOUT PRINCE RUPERT OF THE RHINE
S3. There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today, _______.
SIR DAVID BEATTY TO CHATFIELD HIS FLAG CAPTAIN
S4. In defeat unbeatable; in victory unbearable.
CHURCHILL ABOUT BERNARD MONTGOMERY
S5. There is ______, standing like a stone wall. Let us determine to die here, and we will conquer.
BRIGADIER GENERAL BERNARD BEE ABOUT T J JACKSON
S6. Brilliant to the top of his army boots.
DAVID LLOYD GEORGE ABOUT DOUGLAS HAIG
S7. In this country it is thought proper to kill an admiral from time to time, to encourage the others.
VOLTAIRE ABOUT JOHN BYNG
S8. By many degrees, the greatest soldier on record.
DUKE OF WELLINGTON ABOUT HANNIBAL
S9. _______ was the only man on either side who could lose the war in an afternoon.
CHURCHILL ABOUT JELLICOE
Part 2. Who said, or wrote the following

S10. I have tremendous admiration for Caesar. But …I myself belong rather to the class of Bismarcks.
MUSSOLINI
S11. I know I have the body of a weak and feeble woman, but I have the stomach of a king….
ELIZABETH I
S12. Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds. (modern quote, not original source).
ROBERT OPPENHEIMER
S13. Scratch one flat top. (bonus point for the occasion).
COMMANDER ROBERT DIXON SINKING OF SHOHO CORAL SEA 7/5/42
S14. I shall return.
MACARTHUR
S15. All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable…..
SUN TZU
S16. I've lost my leg, Egad!
LORD UXBRIDGE TO WELLINGTON
S17. Peccavi.
(I HAVE SINNED) SIR CHARLES NAPIER, AFTER BATTLE OF HYDERABAD 1843
S18. My dear McClellan, If you don't want to use the army, I should like to borrow it for a while.
ABRAHAM LINCOLN
S19. The enemy came. He was beaten. I am tired. Good night.
HENRI DE LA TOUR D'AUVERGNE, VICOMPTE DE TURENNE (TUNEN 1658)
S20. And Finally, which operation caused R W Thompson to write:
In fact, Montgomery's decision to mount the operation…. was as startling as it would have been for an elderly and saintly Bishop suddenly to decide to take up safe-breaking and begin on the Bank of England.
MARKET-GARDEN (ARNHEM SEPT 1944)

I guess the quizzes will stop now!

_____________________________

I have a cunning plan, My Lord

(in reply to HMSWarspite)
Post #: 29
Page:   [1]
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