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Naval Combat - 3/1/2009 5:58:40 PM   
gdrover

 

Posts: 215
Joined: 12/4/2008
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I started a 20 year marathon (1796) as Britain last night.

The French were hyper aggressive and just kept sortee-ing out of their ports and attacking my fleets. Even after several poundings, they just kept coming. I noticed that if I fight detailed battles (which is very time consuming), I almost always win (even if slightly outnumbered). However, the casualties are not too severe in lost ships: In batles with 25 - 30 ships on each side, the loser would lose perhaps 3 - 5 ships. This seems very realistic and felt good. The problem is that the French would patch their ships up and come at me again the next turn or two. So at the begining of the game, I had to fight like 8 - 10 detailed naval battles. This was fun, but starting to wear on me, so I decided to trust my fate to Quick combat. This achieved a FAR higher ship loss ratio (becasue I Meleed the enemy aggressively), which ended up destroying the French navies.

So, this all worked very well. My one suggestion is that perhaps the French AI was set to be much too aggressive with its valuable navies. Rebuilding a whole new navy would be costly and take a long time. Shouldn't they try to husband their resources after a defeat to keep the British fleets pinned watching their ports while they slowly build more fleets?
Post #: 1
RE: Naval Combat - 3/1/2009 6:13:32 PM   
gdrover

 

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One great little vignette that occured during one of the sea battles:

In the midst of a swirling battle (both lines had crashed together and had exchanged brutal broadsides and were now completely intermingled and blasting away at each other), my 81 gun 3rd-rater 'Cumberland' swung up behind the French 110 gun 1st-rater Invincible which was fouled with another French behemoth and therefore a sitting duck.  The Cumberland eased by the stern and let loose a devastating broadside.  However, before the splinters had landed, the French crew managed to grapple the smaller Cumberland.

The Cumberland's crew looked on horrified as almost 800 members of the French crew and marines prepared to storm across on the British ship.  Knowing that they would likely not survive the boarding battle that was about to occur, the British captain ordered his gunners to load grape-shot! The gun crews worked quickly and were just able to get off a devestating broadside just as the French mob thronged to the aft quarter.  The first broadside did cruel execution and mowed down almost 200 men, and before they could recover, a second swept the Frenchmen from the decks.  In total almost 300 French crewmen had been cut down before they could board.

The situation had been completely reversed, theFrench morale was shattered, and the British crew charged onboard the massive French 110 gun vessel and took control.  The prize money would make them all wealthy men if they could survive and get back to Bristol!

(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 2
RE: Naval Combat - 3/1/2009 6:37:09 PM   
elmo3

 

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Nice report. Thanks.

(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 3
RE: Naval Combat - 3/2/2009 9:41:22 PM   
meisterchow


Posts: 284
Joined: 12/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gdrover

My one suggestion is that perhaps the French AI was set to be much too aggressive with its valuable navies. Rebuilding a whole new navy would be costly and take a long time. Shouldn't they try to husband their resources after a defeat to keep the British fleets pinned watching their ports while they slowly build more fleets?


There is a portion of the French AI routine that decides in January (and presumably at game start) whether it is going to attempt any amphibious invasions that year. I'm guessing you were busy forestalling a potential French invasion of ole' Blighty.


_____________________________

'Fear God and dread nought'
Coat of Arms Motto of Baron Fisher, of Kilverstone

(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 4
RE: Naval Combat - 3/2/2009 10:47:03 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gdrover

One great little vignette that occured during one of the sea battles:

In the midst of a swirling battle (both lines had crashed together and had exchanged brutal broadsides and were now completely intermingled and blasting away at each other), my 81 gun 3rd-rater 'Cumberland' swung up behind the French 110 gun 1st-rater Invincible which was fouled with another French behemoth and therefore a sitting duck.  The Cumberland eased by the stern and let loose a devastating broadside.  However, before the splinters had landed, the French crew managed to grapple the smaller Cumberland.

The Cumberland's crew looked on horrified as almost 800 members of the French crew and marines prepared to storm across on the British ship.  Knowing that they would likely not survive the boarding battle that was about to occur, the British captain ordered his gunners to load grape-shot! The gun crews worked quickly and were just able to get off a devestating broadside just as the French mob thronged to the aft quarter.  The first broadside did cruel execution and mowed down almost 200 men, and before they could recover, a second swept the Frenchmen from the decks.  In total almost 300 French crewmen had been cut down before they could board.

The situation had been completely reversed, theFrench morale was shattered, and the British crew charged onboard the massive French 110 gun vessel and took control.  The prize money would make them all wealthy men if they could survive and get back to Bristol!



Hmm grappled vessels should not be able to loose broadsides at each others decks or rigging. Into each others hulls, sure with some penalty as the hulls are touching and thus some ports are unable to be opened, but the decks? I don't see how that could even be possible.

Jim


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(in reply to gdrover)
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RE: Naval Combat - 3/3/2009 1:16:45 PM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: gdrover

One great little vignette that occured during one of the sea battles:

In the midst of a swirling battle (both lines had crashed together and had exchanged brutal broadsides and were now completely intermingled and blasting away at each other), my 81 gun 3rd-rater 'Cumberland' swung up behind the French 110 gun 1st-rater Invincible which was fouled with another French behemoth and therefore a sitting duck.  The Cumberland eased by the stern and let loose a devastating broadside.  However, before the splinters had landed, the French crew managed to grapple the smaller Cumberland.

The Cumberland's crew looked on horrified as almost 800 members of the French crew and marines prepared to storm across on the British ship.  Knowing that they would likely not survive the boarding battle that was about to occur, the British captain ordered his gunners to load grape-shot! The gun crews worked quickly and were just able to get off a devestating broadside just as the French mob thronged to the aft quarter.  The first broadside did cruel execution and mowed down almost 200 men, and before they could recover, a second swept the Frenchmen from the decks.  In total almost 300 French crewmen had been cut down before they could board.

The situation had been completely reversed, theFrench morale was shattered, and the British crew charged onboard the massive French 110 gun vessel and took control.  The prize money would make them all wealthy men if they could survive and get back to Bristol!



Hmm grappled vessels should not be able to loose broadsides at each others decks or rigging. Into each others hulls, sure with some penalty as the hulls are touching and thus some ports are unable to be opened, but the decks? I don't see how that could even be possible.

Jim



Yip I have to agree with you on that one Jim,being grappled together hulls touching, the Cumberland 3rd Rate 2 Decker in no way should be able to fire grape shot at the crew of the Invincible 1st Rate 3 Decker, so I'm afraid the above situation would never be able to occur, the result should have been that the Cumberland would have been taken as a prize by the French boarding party!

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 6
RE: Naval Combat - 3/9/2009 11:56:57 PM   
gdrover

 

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Joined: 12/4/2008
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Hmmm.... Well I don't know what to say. It seemed odd that they could grapple me at all since I was behind them and at a crossed T to their stern. Once they did, they didn't board and so it was my action. Their crew was much larger, so all I could do was to load grapeshot and shoot low. It worked like a charm!

Not sure if the game wasn't supposed to let me do that, if it was the unique situation because I was behind and my broadside was aimed full-on to sweep their deck... or what, but it happened. :-)

G

< Message edited by gdrover -- 3/9/2009 11:58:11 PM >

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 7
RE: Naval Combat - 3/10/2009 12:00:37 AM   
gdrover

 

Posts: 215
Joined: 12/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charlie Lewis


quote:

ORIGINAL: gdrover

My one suggestion is that perhaps the French AI was set to be much too aggressive with its valuable navies. Rebuilding a whole new navy would be costly and take a long time. Shouldn't they try to husband their resources after a defeat to keep the British fleets pinned watching their ports while they slowly build more fleets?


There is a portion of the French AI routine that decides in January (and presumably at game start) whether it is going to attempt any amphibious invasions that year. I'm guessing you were busy forestalling a potential French invasion of ole' Blighty.



Still, they just kept coming. Even after they had lost sea battle after battle and the odds were stacked against them, they just kept sortee-ing.



(in reply to meisterchow)
Post #: 8
RE: Naval Combat - 3/10/2009 11:24:21 PM   
hellfirejet


Posts: 1052
Joined: 12/16/2008
From: Scotland
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Hi gdrover,
1ST POINT = As you say grappled together crossed T,Broadside v Stern. Allowing for the fact that the French ship a 3DECKER 1st rate did not attempt to board the smaller 2DECKER Cumberland 3rd rate,that fault appears to be with the AI lack of agressive decision making,the French crew should have boarded the Cumberland via the stern.

2ND POINT = Cumberland firing broadsides via the stern of the 1st rate,although the stern is a vunerable part of any ship, you were using grape shot so would only be able to effect, the small amount of crew who happened to be there, main gun deck and middle deck only,it would be impossible to fire at the quarter deck etc!!!!! Your cannons should have been loaded with double round shot, firing the lenght of the ship through the stern gallerys,in this scenario the effect would have been a massacre of the main gun deck.

_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to gdrover)
Post #: 9
RE: Naval Combat - 3/11/2009 12:35:18 PM   
henri51


Posts: 1151
Joined: 1/16/2009
Status: offline
The French navy IS too aggressive with the AI. Playing the French, I set both strategy and tactics on auto with the intention of just managing battles and diplomacy and a few odds and ends. Each move, the AI sortied my French fleets until I only had two ships left!

At the start of the campaign, the French fleets are no match for the British, and in addition you would think that after losing foour or five battles in a row, the French AI would wise up and keep the fleets away from the British.

This really needs to be adjusted - at worse, just tell the AI to leave French fleets at home...

Try it, you wont like it

Henri

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 10
RE: Naval Combat - 3/11/2009 4:10:41 PM   
Hard Sarge


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Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
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take it over yourself, or set it up, so it can win

the French Navy isn't a weakling, but it does need some leadership, even if you let the AI take it, you still have to give it the leadership it needs to keep going


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