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tonys and tojos finally here

 
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tonys and tojos finally here - 3/9/2009 12:48:22 AM   
undercovergeek

 

Posts: 1526
Joined: 11/21/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		at last 1/8/42 my tojos and tonys are rolling off the production line - i have 202 for tony and 193 for tojo in the production info - this was r+d and is now real production, im still producing 145 oscars too - do i now change oscar production to r+d in something else? and what do i change to tonys and what to tojos?

thanks for any help
Post #: 1
RE: tonys and tojos finally here - 3/9/2009 12:59:35 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		FRANKS and JACKS!



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Post #: 2
RE: tonys and tojos finally here - 3/9/2009 2:01:26 AM   
Local Yokel


Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
Status: offline 		This probably depends in part upon the mod you're playing. Woos has done some excellent graphical aids to show the upgrade paths for Japanese aircraft production - go to this link for more details.

In CHS the initial production lines for Type 3 Hiens (Tony) automatically upgrade to a later version with more potent cannon armament, and thereafter to the Ki-100.

Also in CHS both Type 2 Shoki (Tojo) and Type 1 Hayabusa (Oscar) auto-upgrade to Type 4 Hayate (Frank). The Type 4 is a highly respectable penetration fighter and I would want to stage a production surge to upgrade all my outdated Type 1's and 2's to it ASAP. Depending upon attrition rates you may be able to shut down a lot of Type 1 production, but I would keep the Type 1 factories as they are so they auto-convert to the Type 4 without having to pay an enormous conversion cost in supply points. Unless, that is, you want to make a big R&D commitment to the Type 4: probably this machine justifies such an investment more than any other.

The J2M Raiden (Jack) is a JNAF point defence fighter, so you should assume you won't be able to re-equip JAAF units with it.

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Post #: 3
RE: tonys and tojos finally here - 3/9/2009 10:16:09 AM   
eastwindrain

 

Posts: 230
Joined: 11/29/2005
Status: offline 		I'm glad UNDERCOVERGEEK ask this question as I'm playing stock as the Japanese, now at 7/12/42 and keep checking the production lines and aircraft availability for these fighters. All being well and in order will they arrive during August 42 ?.

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RE: tonys and tojos finally here - 3/9/2009 11:22:27 AM   
Local Yokel


Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
Status: offline 		In stock the Types 2 and 3 fighters (Shoki/Tojo and Hien/Tony) are both due to commence production in August 1942.

There are substantial differences between the production line upgrade paths for stock and those for CHS. In stock the Ki-43-I (Oscar 1) line upgrades to Ki-61 (Tony) shortly after the Ki-61 starts production. Ki-61 production later upgrades to Ki-100, as one would expect.

The big difference is that in stock only the Ki-44 (Tojo) lines automatically upgrade to Ki-84 (Frank). Ki-43-II production, which starts in Jan 43, is terminal: it does NOT automatically upgrade to Ki-84 production as in CHS. This means that if you want to make a substantial switch to Ki-84 production (the course I would want to take) then you will have to make tough choices about what line/s you are going to convert and what supply point cost you are prepared to pay for doing so.

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Post #: 5
RE: tonys and tojos finally here - 3/9/2009 2:51:46 PM   
eastwindrain

 

Posts: 230
Joined: 11/29/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for the advanced warning, have written this down in my campaign notes with a BIG RED HIGHLIGHT.

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Post #: 6
RE: tonys and tojos finally here - 3/9/2009 3:05:00 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Local Yokel is right, you REALLY have to check the upgrade paths of the version you are playing. I am in Big B, and it follows stock basically: Tojo upgrades to Frank (very useful), Tony upgrades to Ki-61c and then Ki-100 (somewhat useful), and Oscar upgrades...to more Oscars (not at all useful).

To me, the auto-upgrade to Frank, and use of Nakajima engines, makes the TOJO the winner of the Tony/Tojo debate. The TONY engines are "terminal"; you have no use for your spare Kawasaki engines or factories.

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RE: tonys and tojos finally here - 3/9/2009 3:26:13 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Which brings up anothe question of mine.

What would most of you do with the Ki-45 Toryu (Nick) line? I generally keep a small number in production to serve in places like China.

On the Ki-44 Shoki vs Ki-61 Hien debate. In my case, the Ki-61 is slightly better against the heavy allied bombers and those are eating my lunch in my PBEM. So I've gong all in for for Ki-61 production, but I did not sacrifice all my Ki-44 production. Right now I'm sitting with a stockpile of about 1300 Kawasaki engines, which is about a 6 month supply for my Ki-61s. The idea is that I will have enough when I do switch to keep the lines open while I convert my engine production, hopefully it works out.

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Post #: 8
RE: tonys and tojos finally here - 3/9/2009 3:43:05 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		I personally hate the Nick. I never found any use for it other than PT-busting, and even then, the Allies will catch on, CAP the PT's, and eat your Nick FBs for lunch.

The Irving is equally near-useless, as well as the Nick NF. I suppose you have to build them to get the pilots, and they can serve a purpose in defending bases that Allied fighters can't get to. But other than that, they are a waste.

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Post #: 9
RE: tonys and tojos finally here - 3/9/2009 3:55:45 PM   
Local Yokel


Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Which brings up anothe question of mine.

What would most of you do with the Ki-45 Toryu (Nick) line? I generally keep a small number in production to serve in places like China.


Pending arrival of the J2M Raiden the big thing the Ki-45 has going for it is its ceiling: better than any other JAAF fighter. Not quite good enough to reach the B17-E's at 36000', but sufficient to reach most other Allied 4E bombers. I upgrade the Kai-A variant to Kai-B as soon as I can. The Kai-B carries a 37mm cannon, and even though its accuracy is poor it ought to do better against those tough Allied bomber hides than its predecessor. Haven't yet decided how far to pursue the Kai-C night fighter upgrade with its Schräge Musik installation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

On the Ki-44 Shoki vs Ki-61 Hien debate. In my case, the Ki-61 is slightly better against the heavy allied bombers and those are eating my lunch in my PBEM. So I've gong all in for for Ki-61 production, but I did not sacrifice all my Ki-44 production. Right now I'm sitting with a stockpile of about 1300 Kawasaki engines, which is about a 6 month supply for my Ki-61s. The idea is that I will have enough when I do switch to keep the lines open while I convert my engine production, hopefully it works out.


Trying to knock down heavies in a Nik Mod game is a wearisome task. In CHS my preference is for the Ki-44 against the Kai-1b variant of the Hien: both carry a quartet of half-inch Ho-103 MG's, but on the Shoki two of them are the more accurate centreline version, and this is reflected in the results I have obtained. Different matter with the late production Hien, which totes 4 x 20mm Ho-5 cannon - "yes, I'll take some of those please."

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Post #: 10
RE: tonys and tojos finally here - 3/9/2009 4:11:36 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Which brings up anothe question of mine.

What would most of you do with the Ki-45 Toryu (Nick) line? I generally keep a small number in production to serve in places like China.


Pending arrival of the J2M Raiden the big thing the Ki-45 has going for it is its ceiling: better than any other JAAF fighter. Not quite good enough to reach the B17-E's at 36000', but sufficient to reach most other Allied 4E bombers. I upgrade the Kai-A variant to Kai-B as soon as I can. The Kai-B carries a 37mm cannon, and even though its accuracy is poor it ought to do better against those tough Allied bomber hides than its predecessor. Haven't yet decided how far to pursue the Kai-C night fighter upgrade with its Schräge Musik installation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

On the Ki-44 Shoki vs Ki-61 Hien debate. In my case, the Ki-61 is slightly better against the heavy allied bombers and those are eating my lunch in my PBEM. So I've gong all in for for Ki-61 production, but I did not sacrifice all my Ki-44 production. Right now I'm sitting with a stockpile of about 1300 Kawasaki engines, which is about a 6 month supply for my Ki-61s. The idea is that I will have enough when I do switch to keep the lines open while I convert my engine production, hopefully it works out.


Trying to knock down heavies in a Nik Mod game is a wearisome task. In CHS my preference is for the Ki-44 against the Kai-1b variant of the Hien: both carry a quartet of half-inch Ho-103 MG's, but on the Shoki two of them are the more accurate centreline version, and this is reflected in the results I have obtained. Different matter with the late production Hien, which totes 4 x 20mm Ho-5 cannon - "yes, I'll take some of those please."


Well like I said I didn't give up either line. Have about 130 Ki-44 and 170 Ki-61 ramped up per month.

As far as the heavies...defending force of 60 A6M2 Reisen, 20 Ki-27, and 12 A6M2-N vs 4 (that's right only 4!) B-17s and couldn't take down even one. It's really aggravating.

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Post #: 11
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