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Prior to Dec 7/41 - 7/30/2002 5:53:47 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Don't start that here. Let's make sure Matrix and 2BY3 do well with UV/WITP engine, Then get them to think about a 19th/20th Century geopolitical game.;)

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 31
- 7/30/2002 6:59:09 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		Party pooper. We were just hoping that the WitP could start in 1918 with the end of WWI. That way, everyone, including the Germans, could jockey for position in the Pacific. If you hadn't cut us off so rudely, ;) I was going to suggest that there be an option for head to head players to negotiate their own naval limitations treaties outlawing all carriers. That way, America would be forced to develop jets by 1935 and, by 1941, would have B-52s and maybe even . . . even, like maybe Polaris missiles. Plus, if you started that early, America, China, and Japan could invade the Soviet Union and put an end to communism. Then Japan and the U.S. can join forces to divide the Pacific. In retaliation, the Soviets attack Pearl Harbor, and the U.S. is forced to send its forces to the defense of Japan against the Soviets and the Europeans. :rolleyes:

Ron, do I remember that you were going to beta test this thing? Don't remember why I'm thinking that, but I have a vague notion that that is the case. If so, any idea when you're going to get plugged in?

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 32
- 7/30/2002 8:18:45 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		I'm working on the Naval OOBs for WITP. I'm just a history geek.:D Knock on wood, though.

That Naval limitation idea sounds interesting. Really pee someone off so they declare war in 1920s. I'd be interested in WITP 1920/30s style, but with a tactical naval engine. Big friggin' Jutland style Plan Orange game.:):)

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 33
- 7/30/2002 10:51:10 AM   
Ranger-75


Posts: 610
Joined: 6/29/2001
From: Giant sand box
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by showboat1
[B]I think there should be the possibility of an alternate peace scenario between Japan and China. If Japan and China had agreed to a peace with Japan leaving the occupied zones (except of course those captured from the Brits and Manchuria) then that would free up additional land and air units. This possibility was always a fear of the Allied high command and they went to great lengths to keep Chiag happy and in the war. [/B][/QUOTE]

Japan's entire purpose for going to war with the US & Great Britain was to secure oil / resources needed to "finish" the so called "China Incident" their aggressive invasion of China in July 1937. They had 4 & 1/2 years to win a victory in China with NO outside interference, but FAILED and everyone wants to "change the course of the war in China". Here's an idea - do not invade China.

Sugiyama told the Hirohito that it would take one month to overtake China. HA! When he later told Hirohito that the Pacific ops would take a similar time- Hirohito remarked "Oh really, you said the war in China would be over on 1 month, now it is 4 years later and still going on"

Japan making a peace with China? Go back up 2 paragrqphs and read it again. Even after getting their a$$ handed to them by the US on a regular basis since June 1942, the only thoughts in Japan was "if we can settle the 'China Incident'..." Peace or withdrawl in China was not even considered. Japan had their chance to withdraw from the occupied Chinese territory before the pacific war began, but they refused.

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 34
- 7/31/2002 7:52:09 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ron Saueracker
[B]I'm working on the Naval OOBs for WITP. I'm just a history geek.:D Knock on wood, though.[/B][/QUOTE]

I'm green with jealousy. :p (That's me being green). Let me know if I can help. Where are you, by the way? I don't have much personally anymore, but I've got several university libraries nearby that usually have some amazing stuff printed by the government. Or I could go online. Pensacola and Ft. Rucker are pretty close, and I think they'd have good resources for naval and army aviation OOBs.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ron Saueracker
[B]That Naval limitation idea sounds interesting. Really pee someone off so they declare war in 1920s. I'd be interested in WITP 1920/30s style, but with a tactical naval engine. Big friggin' Jutland style Plan Orange game.:):) [/B][/QUOTE]

Don't EVEN go there!

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 35
- 8/7/2002 1:11:28 AM   
Ranger-75


Posts: 610
Joined: 6/29/2001
From: Giant sand box
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by byron13
[B]

I'm green with jealousy. :p (That's me being green). Let me know if I can help. Where are you, by the way? I don't have much personally anymore, but I've got several university libraries nearby that usually have some amazing stuff printed by the government. Or I could go online. Pensacola and Ft. Rucker are pretty close, and I think they'd have good resources for naval and army aviation OOBs.



Don't EVEN go there! [/B][/QUOTE]

Look at "The American Magic" by Ronald Lewin. The US infuriated the Japanese during and after the 1922 (?) Washington Naval Conference & Treaty, by using intel that informed the US that even though the Japanese would "protest" the limits of 10-10-6 that in the end they would agree to the 10-10-6 ratio. The US representative, knowing this, informed the other attendees that the US was quite capable of outbuilding everyone else combined and would gladly do so if the proposed ratio was not accepted. ( I wonder if congress would ever approve such building in the 20's - the USN never even built up to its limits in Cruisers and Battleships until the very late 30's.) This didn't make the British any happier either, but is really torqued off the Japanese, when later on, they purchased some "information" from Robert Yardley who later published a book containing the info that he "sold" to Japan. Really made a mess of things for the intel community and earned the US a neverending hatred from Japan. If further built on the hatred that was present since 1848.

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 36
- 8/7/2002 8:40:13 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		Naw. I was just suggesting, playfully, that we're getting a little far afield. ;)

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 37
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