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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/26/2009 4:33:12 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		In this same line of thinking, have a look at this:

http://www.ted.com/talks/pattie_maes_demos_the_sixth_sense.html

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/27/2009 7:25:25 AM   
Veldor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

In this same line of thinking, have a look at this:

http://www.ted.com/talks/pattie_maes_demos_the_sixth_sense.html


Thanks for posting that. Interesting example of Minority Report like technology (complete with the movie reference). Just goes to show most of that type of thing is just around the corner not a century or even a decade away. Just a couple years, if even.

The real trick is in how its all applied. It takes one genious to invent the technology but many more to apply it to something useful and marketable. I'd love to see someone do examples of gaming or application interfacing using the 4 colored finger pointer that guy wore in the video. Maybe for scrolling the map, zooming in and/or selecting units. Etc.

I actually really dig the supermarket example they gave. They are starting to build barcode readers into phones and mobile devices so you can scan stuff at the store and get an online amazon/ebay price etc for comparison... and/or just information on your phone about it. Their example took it one step further and made it even easier and effortless (Still I think id probably be ok with just a barcode scanner in my phone).. but if the device did all of that and more.. well then... perhaps..

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/27/2009 8:33:28 AM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

In this same line of thinking, have a look at this:

http://www.ted.com/talks/pattie_maes_demos_the_sixth_sense.html

Unfortunately, I am very, very sceptical about people in power and all too often see legislation and technology combined for the wrong reasons. I see this kind of device and this technology as a threat. I'm a law abider and it's me that's worried!! Go figure!

As the Minority Report was mentioned, I might as well say it that kind of thing that makes me sceptical....guilty until proven innocent. Also, there are things being put in place now apparently for our own safety which absolutely trample on your human rights.

Unfortunately, this is the way the world is going. Hopefully, I'll have departed this earth before the world turns into a real live "Logans Run". I do fear for my kids though.

I used to be a believer that all children born should have DNA taken at birth so that it could be easier to catch perpetrators of crime...but seeing how various "powers that be" use the information to hand??? Seeing how miscarriages of justice spring to life because one copper decided he was 100% sure that guy did it so planted the evidence???

No...you're alright thx. Everyone else can embrace the upcoming technology if they want, but when they actually see it's implementation, it's more than likely too late to whine about it.

I'd sooner NOT be tracked or monitored. I'd sooner NOT have information about me displayed on my T-shirt as soon as someone looked at me.


(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 33
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/27/2009 11:38:42 AM   
PunkReaper


Posts: 1085
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: England
Status: offline 		Well said JD.... so many people seem to love the fact that they can be tracked and snooped at. More cameras please, google street view is great, you can even see me outside my house, I love the fact that my telephone calls and e-mails are monitored, even facebook records are to be kept, etc etc.... Read history suckers, you may not be a terrorist or even a criminal but one day they may just decide to come for you! WE ARE SUPPOSED TO LIVE IN A FREE SOCIETY...... SO KEEP IT FREE..... sorry Erik was that political or just common sense.

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Post #: 34
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/27/2009 12:45:34 PM   
PunkReaper


Posts: 1085
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: England
Status: offline 		BTW before you think I'm a bit paranoid it has recently been announced that English local councils used ANTI-TERRORIST legislation 10,000 times in the last 5 years to snoop on people for such terrorist activities as being suspected of allowing their dogs to foul the footpath, or using disabled badges inappropriately. We were told that this legislation was required to catch terrorists but now we find out that it is being used to snoop on ordinary citizens..... I rest my case.... sorry again Erik.

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Post #: 35
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/27/2009 1:55:07 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, we're veering into politics. Let's stop that please and just keep talking about the tech as far as interfaces go. With that said, there's a reason why I live in Vermont and up until last year my area didn't even have any cell phone reception.

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Post #: 36
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/27/2009 2:42:25 PM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
...my area didn't even have any cell phone reception.

Sounds like bliss!

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Post #: 37
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/27/2009 7:11:56 PM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline 		Anyone snooping on me, government or otherwise, is going to be pretty bored and move along fast. All they're going to find is someone playing wargames, watching sci-fi, and posting about technology on forums.

To stay on the tech topic you'd also have to realize that the tshirt one is more of an "extreme example" they meant to make a point. You have to break down the steps involved to understand whats really going on. For instance, in order for it to display words that represent you and/or your interests (after recognizing your face or whatever) YOU would have had to already publicly posted such info all over the internet (myspace, facebook, this matrix site, wherever). There are somethings on the internet where anonymity is key, but for many (and to be useful) it is not. But its still your choice. I don't even use my real name on Boardgamegeek.com but I seem to be in the minority on that one. Whereas here, just due to how the site is setup, almost no one does.

I'd imagine if such a tech did take off there might even be an "opt-out" database or "friends only feature" like facebook has etc.

There are many who fear the internet and/or just computers in general. A lot of it comes from not understanding the technology at hand. And how can we understand a technology not even fully invented yet, not to mention not implemented yet?

But the basics I think comes down to trust and optimism. Many of you are in the majority there. Distrust the government, distrust the "smart people". Many might be right, others are probably just displacing blame for something else wrong in their life. I don't know.. but in my little corner of the world everyone is happy, we love America and the government, and embrace technology or anything having to do with the future. Like it or hate it its a much happier way to live your life IMHO.

Or you can just grumble about how everyone else is crazy and wrong until you die. :)

PS. Having said that I'm still not that enthralled by some of the examples put forth in the video. Its far more interesting to me, and potentially useful, for how that tech might be applied in the privacy of one's home anyway...say for using your computer, playing games, watching TV, etc.

But hey I would take that phone dialing on your hand projection thing today if it were available for purchase.

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RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/28/2009 8:41:08 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Unfortunately, Veldor, without brancing into politics which we have been warned off, I can't effectively reply to your email.

Suffice it to say it's not lack of knowledge of the technology that scares me. It the lack of trust in political bodies that scares me. I've seen and heard of too many miscarriages of justice and I've seen and heard of many instances (like Punk Reaper pointed out) where authorities, people in power, have used information and technology for their own gains, often targeting innocent people.

The point you alluded to about the blog showing info up on your t-shirt. I still do not want to be identified by what is typed on my blog or any other website. I also do not believe "opt outs" work or are indeed adhered to.

The day will come when the technology used is being used for the wrong reasons and the naysayers and doubters will be sad they didn't step in sooner.

Politicians and scientists make for a bad mix in my view (generally speaking of course). Most of the technology discovered and sciences discovered are being discovered by, I believe, genuine people who want to use it to help and make life easier...but money turns.

What about the film Terminator...the guy who designed the chip? He believed he was creating something good. He had no idea it would be "turned". A film I know...but I truly believe that goes on in this lovely world of ours.

I might have touched on politics there and I apologise but it was difficult to retorte to an accusation of being scared of the technology through lack of understanding without explaining my reasons for being scared of it. Nuff said.

The End.

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Post #: 39
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/28/2009 8:50:14 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline 		I see the point but I think there are just as many times where technology helps people. Look at DNA evidence. But I'll pass on the politics as well.

It's also a bit ironic your name here is JudgeDredd. I'm far more scared of a world where the police officer approaching me is "judge, jury, and executioner"....

Where the only technology is that which they use to kill me with ...

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Post #: 40
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/28/2009 10:20:34 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		IMO politicians aren't the worst. Private corporations, private citizens and even small businesses can be the worst when equipped with powerful technology.
Let's remember that a lot of that stuff ends up in hands of people who don't have anything against selling frozen food that was unfrozen/refrozen multiple times, "refreshed food", sell stuff without disclosing its true nature or simply like to harass people "for the lulz".
Actually there are thieves who use information from social sites to pick their new victims.
Not to mention things like gymnasium kids using phone cams to make movies about how harass and sexually molest people and then using the internet to publish them.

Simply, the technological progress is way before the moral progress of humanity.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 3/28/2009 10:23:53 AM >

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Post #: 41
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/28/2009 11:21:10 AM   
Veldor


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From: King's Landing
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

IMO politicians aren't the worst. Private corporations, private citizens and even small businesses can be the worst when equipped with powerful technology.
Let's remember that a lot of that stuff ends up in hands of people who don't have anything against selling frozen food that was unfrozen/refrozen multiple times, "refreshed food", ...


Right. But on the otherhand there is simple technology that COULD be bought that actually puts a sensor in each box and/or on each item that tells you if the item has EVER been out of a preprogrammed temperature range. Mostly today its just used for entire pallets so that they can be rejected at certain points (sat on a dock somewhere too long etc.).

We as a nation dont want to go through a checkout at the grocery and have all our items scanned automatically and charged to our card (I mean without taking a single item out of the cart) yet we are okay with our car passing under the exact same device on the toll road and charging our credit card... I find that strange considering the later can also be used to tie you to a crime (even adultery) based on your time and location. It can contribute to you getting a speeding ticket based on your time between two tolls.... BUT in the same ways could be used to clear you of a crime etc (This later part is generally ommitted by those complaining which suspiciously often don't have a credit card to begin with.).






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Post #: 42
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/28/2009 12:05:29 PM   
PunkReaper


Posts: 1085
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: England
Status: offline 		Veldor I would sooo like to reply to your posts but Erik has me strapped to a chair shouting "NO POLITICS" in my face. He traced me to my home via my several data bases he keeps on his computer..........

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Post #: 43
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/28/2009 12:59:32 PM   
PunkReaper


Posts: 1085
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: England
Status: offline 		BTW I think he traced me from the local council data base they have from the chip they have placed in my garbage bin (which it is illegal to remove) they use to monitor the weight of my rubbish.......
Or was it from one of the hundreds of data sticks that contain personal information that government employees have admitted to losing, or from one of the sensitive computers that the government loses every week. (average one per week)

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Post #: 44
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/28/2009 1:00:44 PM   
PunkReaper


Posts: 1085
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: England
Status: offline 		oops I suppose that was a reply I said I wasn't going to make........

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Post #: 45
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/28/2009 1:01:23 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		If I could give an instance where technology helps but is unfair?

Speed cameras.

In the UK, they werte initially put deliberately in places where they would be least seen and most likely to catch people speeding. Now, whilst I am against speeding and in my view if you are caught by a camera because you were speeding, then tough s^^t...do the crime and take the time. (the fact that the speed cameras would've been better served being on dangerous junctions, or outside schools/hospitals etc is another point).

However, there was a case recently, documented on the internet (the guy at work read it out to me). Apparently, a guy was caught doing 170mph. He contested and it went to court. The police swore blind the camera was "within legal parameters for error". Turns out, the guy got a representative from the car company to come to court (or give evidence) and inform the court that the car was actually incapable of such speeds and could only muster whatever...say 110mph.

Now whilst cameras can serve a purpose, this is an absolute example of guilty until prove innocent. How many people have been served speeding fines who were actually caught by a camera that wasn't calibrated? Whilst it's true that it has caught some guilty parties also, I'm not one for thinking collateral damage is ok!

Another instance in the UK is where a family were targeted and CCTV used to determine whether the family were in the right catchment area for a school. Now in my eyes, that's an invasion of privacy for no good reason.

No. It's not the technology or the science that's wrong. It's the people that get their hands on it.

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Post #: 46
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/28/2009 1:06:26 PM   
PunkReaper


Posts: 1085
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: England
Status: offline 		The Judge is correct again....






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 47
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/28/2009 8:23:52 PM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline 		Most of what you've said is around the wrongfully accused argument. While no one wants to be wrongefully accused it does not take technology for that to happen. And in most cases these "media stories" are either greatly exaggerated in the first place and/or 1 in a 100000+ chance of error. In this particular case the person was likely still speeding anyway. I know thats not the point but the rest is pure speculation not necessarily fact. I do agree about the problem still being the people not the tech. And for the rightful goal of creating a safe environment you dont even need working cameras. Just put a fake camera up and it will deter a lot of people from running red lights or speeding. Rotate which ones are active to save on costs etc. Lastly, as a taxpayer, Im all for any system that generates more tax dollars from others based upon minor infractions. If they had no cameras we'd all pay $100 more in taxes... With cameras I pay $100 less and someone who speeds pays 3 times their normal share ($300 or whatever). I love that.

I once got a ticket for parking my own car in front of my own house past curfew. Now that might sound right but it was a brand new house without even a driveway poured yet (And a sidewalk thats 1.5 feet deep prior to pouring the driveway). No way for me to park my car anywhere else. No tech involved.

I once got a ticket for speeding where the cop stated that he "paced" my red sports car. No radar gun or anything. Thats legal in some counties here. I contested and got the maximum fine. I'd rather a broken uncalibrated radar gun than it simply being his word against mine (As the judge says "Excuse me sir, Am I to believe you are in fact accusing this officer of lying?). The judge even asked what kind of car I drove, as if that should matter? No tech involved.

So I'm not necessarily saying we should just blindly adopt any and all tech.. And I agree the predominate problem is still who and how. But I do think, in general, it doesnt hurt society nearly as much as the extreme examples make it to. If anything it can add more checks & balances to the "other side" as well should you wish to view it that way. Take police station videotaping of confessions as one example. Tech or No Tech we do a plenty good job of screwing many things up either way.

And, in an attempt to steer this discussion a tad bit back on course... I think we were all originally primarily talking about tech being used in gaming until that video that Erik (ahem) posted.

PS. Honestly I don't have nearly the extreme view on all this that it might seem... just as I'm (hoping?) a few of you aren't quite as close to standing around on street corners with "The End is Near" signs as you generally come of as....

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Post #: 48
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/28/2009 9:15:53 PM   
hadberz


Posts: 1629
Joined: 5/11/2000
From: Moncks Corner, SC
Status: offline 		If I can't use a mouse and keyboard, I don't want it. Besides once 2012 hits and the solar storms wipe out all electronic devices, we'll all be back to boardgames 

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Post #: 49
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/30/2009 11:31:35 PM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Barthheart
But is just me or are those to "nancy boys" just NOT the wargaming types?


quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc
I was thinking the same thing...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
Same here.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.
Yep, those two tripped the ghey alarm. Those were NOT your average wargamer.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
This video looked like they had a bet - who loses is on the bottom.


Would this be a very very bad time to point out that my acting debut was in that first video?

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Post #: 50
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/31/2009 2:14:39 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		ROTFL


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People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

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Post #: 51
RE: Video Released of how Wargames Will Be Played In Th... - 3/31/2009 2:40:17 AM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline 		I watched a gameplay demo at gametrailers.com, finally got to see how combat is.So far it looks pretty good.Hoping they show us some East Front and Pacific battles as well.I'm also curious if there is going to be full fledged naval only battles, with aircraft carriers, submarines, etc where we get full control of naval forces.From the gameplay demo it looked like he had NO CONTROL of the Battleship support assets at all.I have to say though the AA shooting up high into sky to attack the B-17s was authentic.

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 3/31/2009 2:41:56 AM >

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Post #: 52
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