Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: yesman68

Actually, Mad Russian, I have the computer version of 3R published in '96 by Avalon Hill and still enjoy playing it (in the absence of people to play A3R, the boardgame).

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ORIGINAL: HansHafen

Well sorry Willy, you little ingrateful twit. I'll let you whine next time. I think I just figured out why no one answered your...

quote:

ORIGINAL: yesman68

Actually, Mad Russian, I have the computer version of 3R published in '96 by Avalon Hill and still enjoy playing it (in the absence of people to play A3R, the boardgame).

Am I to understand there is no armor exploitation in WiF?

I've never opted to buy WiF because I don't have room to set the thing up. There is such a thing as being to big.

Having said that, I will be purchasing CWiF. I'm a sucker for grand strategic scale games!!

Dan

quote:

ORIGINAL: jcprom

IMHO, the feel of exploitation is replaced mostly by the impulse system which helps create breakthroughs. The impulse/initiative/weather system is one of the best feature of WiF (if not the best).

That being said, ARM units in 3R are almost like "gods" compared to INF units. Only ARM can breakthrough and exploit. Only ARM have ZOC. With too few ARMs, you are totally helpless. You can't even defend yourself.

Whereas in 3R having more ARM means being much stronger, in WiF you only need a sufficient amount of ARMs (in order to choose the type of combat). Having too many is wasting your BPs. Many INFs have similar combat ratings for half the cost and half the building time. They "exploit" with ARMs when you get 2 impulse in a row or when enemy units are flipped.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I used to play A3R/Rising Sun in the mid-late 90's...even went to Avaloncon twice to play it there. If I remember correctly INF also had ZOC's(I never played 3R). I really like and prefer the impulse system in WiF as well. A3R was a game based on 3 month(quarterly) turns with initiative checks...sometime in 42 the initiative would swing to the Allies and give them a double move which was huge...sometimes each side would get double moves until the Allies finally maintained initiative control. The problem I have with WiF weather and intiative is that its only one die when you roll for it...I wish there was a bell curve with at least 2d10 with modifiers.

I have to disagree that having "too many" ARM in WiF is a waste of BP's. Germany and USSR always build out all their ARM. CW and USA need as much ARM as possible so their follow-up to invasion cant be blitzed off(or made more difficult). In our group the Japs always build out their ARM.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jcprom

IMHO, the feel of exploitation is replaced mostly by the impulse system which helps create breakthroughs. The impulse/initiative/weather system is one of the best feature of WiF (if not the best).

That being said, ARM units in 3R are almost like "gods" compared to INF units. Only ARM can breakthrough and exploit. Only ARM have ZOC. With too few ARMs, you are totally helpless. You can't even defend yourself.

Whereas in 3R having more ARM means being much stronger, in WiF you only need a sufficient amount of ARMs (in order to choose the type of combat). Having too many is wasting your BPs. Many INFs have similar combat ratings for half the cost and half the building time. They "exploit" with ARMs when you get 2 impulse in a row or when enemy units are flipped.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I used to play A3R/Rising Sun in the mid-late 90's...even went to Avaloncon twice to play it there. If I remember correctly INF also had ZOC's(I never played 3R). I really like and prefer the impulse system in WiF as well. A3R was a game based on 3 month(quarterly) turns with initiative checks...sometime in 42 the initiative would swing to the Allies and give them a double move which was huge...sometimes each side would get double moves until the Allies finally maintained initiative control. The problem I have with WiF weather and intiative is that its only one die when you roll for it...I wish there was a bell curve with at least 2d10 with modifiers.

I have to disagree that having "too many" ARM in WiF is a waste of BP's. Germany and USSR always build out all their ARM. CW and USA need as much ARM as possible so their follow-up to invasion cant be blitzed off(or made more difficult). In our group the Japs always build out their ARM.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jcprom

IMHO, the feel of exploitation is replaced mostly by the impulse system which helps create breakthroughs. The impulse/initiative/weather system is one of the best feature of WiF (if not the best).

That being said, ARM units in 3R are almost like "gods" compared to INF units. Only ARM can breakthrough and exploit. Only ARM have ZOC. With too few ARMs, you are totally helpless. You can't even defend yourself.

Whereas in 3R having more ARM means being much stronger, in WiF you only need a sufficient amount of ARMs (in order to choose the type of combat). Having too many is wasting your BPs. Many INFs have similar combat ratings for half the cost and half the building time. They "exploit" with ARMs when you get 2 impulse in a row or when enemy units are flipped.

In WIF the amount of armor you can build is limited to the counter mix (hence your frequent reference to "build out"). Is that true in 3R?

quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

With the 2D10, ARM/MECH is great. Need mot divs, and INF for the cities and mountains. MOT/ART/CAV is for after you have run out of the former.

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ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

With the 2D10, ARM/MECH is great. Need mot divs, and INF for the cities and mountains. MOT/ART/CAV is for after you have run out of the former.

What is a 2D10?

Good Hunting.

MR

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

With the 2D10, ARM/MECH is great. Need mot divs, and INF for the cities and mountains. MOT/ART/CAV is for after you have run out of the former.

What is a 2D10?

Good Hunting.

MR

An optional rule. The standard rule uses 1 ten-sided die for land combat resolution (1D10). The 2D10 uses a completely different CRT and 2 dice (duh). If you want to see some recent screen shots of both of these tables they are in the Player Interface Design thread - not very far back from the most recent posts in that thread (1 page back?).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

With the 2D10, ARM/MECH is great. Need mot divs, and INF for the cities and mountains. MOT/ART/CAV is for after you have run out of the former.

What is a 2D10?

Good Hunting.

MR

An optional rule. The standard rule uses 1 ten-sided die for land combat resolution (1D10). The 2D10 uses a completely different CRT and 2 dice (duh). If you want to see some recent screen shots of both of these tables they are in the Player Interface Design thread - not very far back from the most recent posts in that thread (1 page back?).

An optional rule for MWiF or some earlier version?

In the wargames I designed I always used a 10 sided die or a pair of them to give percentage results. Much easier and a much better representation. So that concept works for me.

Good Hunting.

MR

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

At the moment I've worked my way through the tutorials to land units.

I would like to say that they are absolutely great for a veteran gamer of WiF!!

Not sure how well they would do for non-veteran WiF gamers. I have two that I've started talking to this past couple of weeks, we'll see how they do with them. I'll answer any indepth questions they have about the basic game.

Good Hunting.

MR

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

An optional rule for MWiF or some earlier version?

In the wargames I designed I always used a 10 sided die or a pair of them to give percentage results. Much easier and a much better representation. So that concept works for me.

Good Hunting.

MR

quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

An optional rule for MWiF or some earlier version?

In the wargames I designed I always used a 10 sided die or a pair of them to give percentage results. Much easier and a much better representation. So that concept works for me.

Good Hunting.

MR

Take note however, that the 2D10 table for the land attacks does not uses percentages, you merely add the results from the 2 ten dices, results 2-20 plus or minus pos/neg. bonuses.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


But this changes the distribution from a flat 10% for each of ten possibilities into a range of 1% to 10% (then back down to 1%) for rolls of 2 to 11 (then back down to 20). That provides a much finer grain for designing the CRT. [Personal peeve from long, long ago: the Avalon Hill CRTs which were identical for different games, ranging from American Civil War through WW II.]

quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

An optional rule for MWiF or some earlier version?

In the wargames I designed I always used a 10 sided die or a pair of them to give percentage results. Much easier and a much better representation. So that concept works for me.

Good Hunting.

MR

Take note however, that the 2D10 table for the land attacks does not uses percentages, you merely add the results from the 2 ten dices, results 2-20 plus or minus pos/neg. bonuses.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
So they aren't used as percentile then but just increasing the range of possibilities from 11 to 19 and evening out the range to equal chances for all the numbers.

Again, that works for me better than the 2 six sided dice rolls.

Good Hunting.

MR

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Parker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
So they aren't used as percentile then but just increasing the range of possibilities from 11 to 19 and evening out the range to equal chances for all the numbers.

Again, that works for me better than the 2 six sided dice rolls.

Good Hunting.

MR

well as said its 1% to 10% for any given result. In essence there are 100 possible rolls of a pair of 10 siders. There is only ONE way to get a 2 (or 20) that is to roll both 1's (10's) and hence 1/100 or 1%. For a three there are two ways. 1 then 2 on the 10 siders, or 2 then 1, so 2/100 or 2% likewise for 19 you can roll 10 then 9 or 9 then 10. the most probable single result being 11 of which there are 10 ways of rolling so 10/100 = 10%. 11 also happens to be the expected value of the sum of two ten siders if your into statistics.

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ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Parker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
So they aren't used as percentile then but just increasing the range of possibilities from 11 to 19 and evening out the range to equal chances for all the numbers.

Again, that works for me better than the 2 six sided dice rolls.

Good Hunting.

MR

well as said its 1% to 10% for any given result. In essence there are 100 possible rolls of a pair of 10 siders. There is only ONE way to get a 2 (or 20) that is to roll both 1's (10's) and hence 1/100 or 1%. For a three there are two ways. 1 then 2 on the 10 siders, or 2 then 1, so 2/100 or 2% likewise for 19 you can roll 10 then 9 or 9 then 10. the most probable single result being 11 of which there are 10 ways of rolling so 10/100 = 10%. 11 also happens to be the expected value of the sum of two ten siders if your into statistics.

That's not what I understood the answer to be. I understood the answer is that the two 10 sided dice are simply added together. Giving a result of only from 2 to 20.

That doesn't make them a percentile result; the way it does if one of the dice is read as ten's and the other as one's. Then you get get results from 01 to 00 or 100 results and not 19.

If all we do is add the dice there are three ways to get a 2. 1+1, 2+0 and 0+2.

If we do percentile there is only one way to get a 2. 2(ones dice) + 0 (tens dice).

If you get 100 results each result represents 1%. If you get 19 results each result represents roughly 5%.

Good Hunting.

MR

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Parker




Well each d10 is 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 so there is no 0, but if it were labeled 0-9 you would be correct.

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The MAIN difference is that a straight d100 (or percentile reading one die as tens and one as units) is a uniform distribution. I.e. there is as much probability of observing a roll of 100 as there is of observing 13. in 2d10 meaning take two ten sided dice roll them and add, you get a humped distribution. Its much less likely to see the low or high results and much more likely to see results centered on the mean (or expected value which for 2d10 is 11).

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So just to be clear, its NOT percentile, its a weighted distribution of probabilities.

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On easy way to see it is to form a 10x10 Matrix (yeah MATRIX!) and label the rows and columns 1-10 and fill in the entries by summing the row and column numbers. Then you will see a good graphical representation of the probabilities of generating any given result.

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ORIGINAL: LiquidSky

How can it be a 10 sided die if it doesnt have a 10 on it?