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RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/14/2009 1:12:31 PM

Mad Russian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

In all the games we've played we never actually saw China defeated as a nation either. We did destroy the Chinese armed forces on several occasions and had the Chinese down to only holding Urumchi.

Good Hunting.

MR

They'd be defeated then. Urumchi has no factory.

No, they were not defeated. It has a factory on my maps.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Post #: 31

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/14/2009 2:04:14 PM

composer99

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You can also check out the web site set up by the Ottawa (Ontario) World in Flames group: http://capitalwif.wikidot.com/start.

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Post #: 32

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/14/2009 6:38:40 PM

gridley

Posts: 126
Joined: 10/2/2006
From: Caledon
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Although I'm pretty sure China was defeated a couple times in our games, it was very very rare. Plus when introducing new players it was usually with the China/USA combo, could have been in one of those games...it was a while ago.

Anyway, when I said "knocked out" refering to the Chinese, I meant eliminating them as a serious threat.

Gridley.

(in reply to composer99)

Post #: 33

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/14/2009 8:49:12 PM

Zorachus99

Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

In all the games we've played we never actually saw China defeated as a nation either. We did destroy the Chinese armed forces on several occasions and had the Chinese down to only holding Urumchi.

Good Hunting.

MR

They'd be defeated then. Urumchi has no factory.

No, they were not defeated. It has a factory on my maps.

Good Hunting.

MR

The factory is gone, and one irritating thing about Urumchi is that the Chinese can stockpile an oil point there to start the game, even though there is no rail that could have transported the oil to Urumchi. It's nearly impossible to strat bomb Urumchi, so the chinese will always be able to reorganize 0.4 worth the oil dependant units.

Bleh.

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Post #: 34

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/14/2009 9:12:02 PM

Orm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

In all the games we've played we never actually saw China defeated as a nation either. We did destroy the Chinese armed forces on several occasions and had the Chinese down to only holding Urumchi.

Good Hunting.

MR

They'd be defeated then. Urumchi has no factory.

No, they were not defeated. It has a factory on my maps.

Good Hunting.

MR

The factory is gone, and one irritating thing about Urumchi is that the Chinese can stockpile an oil point there to start the game, even though there is no rail that could have transported the oil to Urumchi. It's nearly impossible to strat bomb Urumchi, so the chinese will always be able to reorganize 0.4 worth the oil dependant units.

Bleh.

You can always try to send an outflanking fast moving (cheap) unit to outflank the Chinese and capture a line of hexes between Urumchi and the Chinese troops so he cant trace the oil to the units. Even if it fails it is annoying to the Chinese and may draw some units to stop it.

(in reply to Zorachus99)

Post #: 35

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/15/2009 12:54:14 AM

paulderynck

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It is interesting to note that for all of us - grognards and noobs alike, the war in China will be a new experience because it uses the European map scale. If there's one place where the unlimited breakdown option will come into vogue, I predict China will be it. Same goes for any Russo-Japanese wars. And you thought it was hard to protect the trans-siberian RR in the boardgame!

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Post #: 36

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/15/2009 3:56:01 AM

lomyrin

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In quite a few CWiF games, with the same scale as MWiF, I have seen China get conquered or thoroughly lamed several times. I have also seen a very strong China that the Japanese did not push very hard against.

With the optional extra cities in China this is likely to be a new experience though.

In a game presently ijn process in the spring of 43 my China has 3 SUB's harassing the Japanese as well as several lendleased Ftrs. Here Japan completely ignored China and DoW'd the CW in January of 40, then took Australia and NZ out and is holding Calcutta where they are stalemated by the CW indian units.

The Germans and Italians built massive SUB fleets and caused the CW heavy production losses that are now about back to normal production levels again and with US and CW troops almost through Spain and landed in France. The Germans are sitzing against Russia and that requires most of their units.

Russia is working on Japan and now have most of Manchuria under their control and will soon be pushing hard against the Germans. The USA has sunk a couple of Jap Carriers and is slowly advancing in the Pacific.

Lars

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 37

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/15/2009 4:52:31 AM

gridley

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Wow! I just checked out this thread after reading your post. What a huge difference. I can't help but think this will help Japan...they can now make this front more of a manouvering war in the Centre and North. It should also negate that tough line the communists used to be able to make now that they will have to spread out more. Even in the South...

This will be interesting.

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 38

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/15/2009 6:16:33 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gridley

Wow! I just checked out this thread after reading your post. What a huge difference. I can't help but think this will help Japan...they can now make this front more of a manouvering war in the Centre and North. It should also negate that tough line the communists used to be able to make now that they will have to spread out more. Even in the South...

This will be interesting.

So, did you read all 683 posts there?

A lot of people contributed to the revisions of the China map and I believe the result benefits enormously from all the knowledgable advice the forum members provided.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to gridley)

Post #: 39

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/16/2009 4:44:41 AM

Mad Russian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

So, did you read all 683 posts there?

I started to but had too many questions. What is WiF FE and are the lines on the map rail lines?

I need to disappear for about a month while I go read the tutorials.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Post #: 40

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/16/2009 5:06:30 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

So, did you read all 683 posts there?

I started to but had too many questions. What is WiF FE and are the lines on the map rail lines?

I need to disappear for about a month while I go read the tutorials.

Good Hunting.

MR

WIF - World in Flames, the board game by Australian Design Group (ADG) created in 1985 and having numerous editions and dozens of addons since then.
WIF FE - World in Flames Final Edition, the 5th edition of WIF was a landmark one, but WIF FE surpassed that as the 'standard'.
MWIF - Matrix Games' computerized version on WIF.
CWIF - Computerized World in Flames developed by Chris Marinacci for ADG. This formed was the starting point for my work on MWIF (I think of the C as also standing for Chris).
===
WIF uses rail lines almost exclusively. There are roads shown but only in a few isolated places, the Burma Road being the most notable.

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Post #: 41

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/16/2009 2:20:30 PM

Mad Russian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

So, did you read all 683 posts there?

I started to but had too many questions. What is WiF FE and are the lines on the map rail lines?

I need to disappear for about a month while I go read the tutorials.

Good Hunting.

MR

WIF - World in Flames, the board game by Australian Design Group (ADG) created in 1985 and having numerous editions and dozens of addons since then.
WIF FE - World in Flames Final Edition, the 5th edition of WIF was a landmark one, but WIF FE surpassed that as the 'standard'.
MWIF - Matrix Games' computerized version on WIF.
CWIF - Computerized World in Flames developed by Chris Marinacci for ADG. This formed was the starting point for my work on MWIF (I think of the C as also standing for Chris).
===
WIF uses rail lines almost exclusively. There are roads shown but only in a few isolated places, the Burma Road being the most notable.

I thought so. My WiF maps have no roads or raillines either one.

C stands for computer IIRC.

Still need to head for the tutorials.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Post #: 42

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/16/2009 4:53:39 PM

Cheesehead

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quote:

Seriously though, has anyone actually seen the CW conquered in WIF?

I too have had the indignity of losing England in a Sea Lion. It was not a case of inexperience or inattentiveness, either. Here is how it happened.

The Germans/IT built TRS, AMPH, NAV, and ships (including finishing the Graf Zep right away, so I knew that I would be facing a sea lion. However, I prepared to defend Spain from the start by having CW DOW Portugal and then starting to unload corps into Portugal right around the fall of France in late summer 1940. Italy began building up an offensive force in Libya to after Egypt. By early 1941 Japan was moving into position to attack India and Australia. This caused me to rush more corps to the Asia/Pacific theater, nearly emptying England of ground corps in early 1941.

By early 1941 it was becoming evident that the GE/IT were not going after Spain, but rather were preparing to invade England. I was able to move some of my corps in Egypt and most of the corps in Portugal back to England but this was with some difficulty as the Axis had taken control of Biscay with strong NAV and Fighters in the two box. The BoA was not going well, either. I had lost quite a few CP and was running out of spare convoys by mid '41. The CW navy was spread thin by JP aggressive move on India and australia in early '41 as well.

The surprise move came in MA41 when the Axis DOWed Ireland and landed easily on the surprise impulse. They were then able to walk into Belfast the following turn, land a few NAV on rebase into Belfast and threaten to cut off CWs only convoy link to the empire in the Faeroes. This forced the CW to move precious fighters to cover the 0 box, Faeroes gap.

In MJ the Germans took an air and few ground strikes against just about every ground unit south of Manchester. Alexander was flipped as well as most every other land corps. The invasion hit Harwich and and the hex just north with bouth amphibious invasion and paradrops. Both hexes had just notional defenders and they were covered with CAP so that I couldn't fly ground support. I think both invasions combats were +14 (2D10), and both attacking stacks landed without flipping. The remaining CW Fighters were in the North Sea desperately trying to find the Axis AMPH and TRS in the 3 box (which didn't have air cover). No luck with that.

Because most of the CW ground units were flipped, as well as Alexander (Gort was in Scotland) I could not attack the landing hexes with anything close to a decent attack. In addition to trying to wall of the Axis occupied hexes west of London, I had to defend against the MAR which was threatening the Liverpool area from Ireland. Finally, I had to bring the corps down from Scotland and fall back to the Manchester-Birmingham line. London was still held, but he was ignoring it.

In SO41, after making progress against central England the Axis sprung another invasion up in depleted Scotland. This was the coup de grace. USE was so bad that even after England was invaded the US didn't gear up until JA41., although part of that was due to my mismanagement of tension. Because the Axis were able to establish such a firm stranglehold on England/Scotland/Ireland by SO41, they were able to begin shifting MECH and ARM corps to the east to face down the Russians. USSR would have to attack in 1942, but by the time the good weather approached, England was finished and the bulk of the German army was already heading east. The Axis had something like 8 good NAV and about an equal number of fighters that could reach the 2 box that were able to completely dominate Biscay and Faeroes. This meant that even when the US was able to DOW sometime in 1942, they would not be able to approach the contient except through Spain. India was inundated with JP corp and Australia had been conquered. Game over.

But it was a great learning experience!

Cheers

John

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RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/16/2009 5:19:48 PM

gridley

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From: Caledon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

So, did you read all 683 posts there? A lot of people contributed to the revisions of the China map and I believe the result benefits enormously from all the knowledgable advice the forum members provided.

That'll teach me...

It was an eye opening 683 post read. Not just to see the end result, which is great. But to see the process...

My problem is that there is just so much to digest. From the other thread, I've been trying to come to grips with how the composite maps, NRD, and NRS all work, but everytime I seem to get sidetracked.

I'm sure it will all be easier to understand once I've got the game in front of me...July still, right?

you don't have to answer that

< Message edited by gridley -- 4/16/2009 6:57:15 PM >

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Post #: 44

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/16/2009 7:13:53 PM

Jagdtiger14

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From: Miami Beach
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Hey Cheesehead! Fellow Cheesehead originally form Washington County here...

So tell me, what did you learn from this Sealion experience?

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Post #: 45

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/16/2009 7:43:43 PM

Cheesehead

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From: Appleton, Wisconsin
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quote:

Hey Cheesehead! Fellow Cheesehead originally form Washington County here...

So tell me, what did you learn from this Sealion experience?

I learned that if the Axis are building for a Sea Lion, don't assume they will go after Spain/Gibralter first. That was my biggeste mistake. The GE/IT were able to control the sea zones around England with massive amounts of NAV and fighters. I think the GE build one MECH and a MECHdiv before 1941. Otherwise it was all air power, MTN, MAR and PARA as well as TRS, AMPH, CV and BBs. I needed more fighters and NAV to contend the North Sea and still have enough fighters to prevent him from groundstriking everything in southern England.

Since then my USE strategy has always been to delay playing most options until I can cut off JP oil. I always play opton 15 and 19 ASAP, then go right for 13, 23 and 31. This hurt me because I didn't have enough tension to gear up until it was too late. I have since adjsuted my USE management to make option 22 the number one goal.

Go Packers!

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RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/16/2009 8:05:49 PM

micheljq

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As for GE/IT, after purchasing so much TRS/AMP/CV/BBs, how was their land forces in 1942. Were they able to have a sizeable land force to attack USSR in 1942?

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Post #: 47

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/16/2009 8:23:32 PM

Cheesehead

Posts: 418
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From: Appleton, Wisconsin
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quote:

As for GE/IT, after purchasing so much TRS/AMP/CV/BBs, how was their land forces in 1942. Were they able to have a sizeable land force to attack USSR in 1942?

Yes, they actually did. GE started building land units heavily in MJ41. The sad fact for the Allies was that after losing England the Axis didn't need much in the line of land forces to defend the west because they could position 3 or 4 NAVs escorted by as many 4+ range fighters in the Faeroes and Biscay Sea zones in order to prevent an Allied landing. I surrendered before 1942 so I never got to see it play out any further, but there was no way the Axis were going to lose. I could see that the GE would be able to mount enough of an attack on the Russians to knock them back to the river line (at least) with their superior air forces and keep Russia from mounting any kind of offensive until ????

This was an example of a game dominated by air power.

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Post #: 48

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/16/2009 9:06:55 PM

Jagdtiger14

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I have been playing WiF since 2000, but have only played CW twice. Most in our group make sure UK is well defended with land units and at least one MECH to blitz invaders off the beach. Make sure you have either units or ZOCs on every coastal invadable hex(the ZOC gives an additional notional). We play with TERR, so we usually have the Blefast TERR plus one other unit in Belfast to negate the -2. Gibraltar is of course heavily defended with control of CSV with defensive SB. Hold on to Morocco as long as you can, and have as much air in both Gib and UK as you can. As for India and Australia...just defend them with the units that can be built there. If you lose India and/or Australia...that can really suck, but certainly not as bad as losing UK. As you build land units for UK, you will build Indian and Aus units as well.

Air power in WiF as well as in real life is dominant.

Go Packers!!!

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Post #: 49

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/16/2009 10:42:46 PM

coregames

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In my first game of MWiF, I want to try to have it all as Germany, hoping to get an idea of how the AIO responds. I will try for Poland and Yugoslavia in '39, to settle the Balkans early, then try and crush the French in time to get Gibralter before the Americans come in. Suez is next, then India, then Russia in '43. The Japanese will help with India, and also grab oil in Persia should Russia go to war with them. This means a southern strategy against the Chinese, waiting to DoW the Russians if at all until the Germans can help stretch their forces.

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Post #: 50

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/17/2009 12:14:44 AM

sajbalk

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I have never seen the CW conquered. But I have seen the UK, Australia, NZ, S.A, and India all fall. India is toughest of the Dominions.

Has anyone, ever, seen Canada fall?

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Post #: 51

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/17/2009 4:10:01 AM

Mad Russian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

Has anyone, ever, seen Canada fall?

Not a chance.

If you are going to invade Canada you might as well try to take out the US. You are going to have to fight them at the invasion site anyway and if you were to be successful, which you won't be, the US is a bigger fish than Canada.

Besides once the US falls Canada will be easy. If you got Canada first the US is still waiting and they would know you are coming....or more likely they would come for YOU!

Good Hunting.

MR

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Post #: 52

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/17/2009 10:14:00 AM

chacal83000

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@coregames:

Russia in 43 ?

Aren't the ruskies that will come for you in 43' ?

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Post #: 53

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/19/2009 7:03:17 PM

willycube

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Punt on first down.

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Post #: 54

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/19/2009 11:48:45 PM

coregames

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chacal83

@coregames:

Russia in 43 ?

Aren't the ruskies that will come for you in 43' ?

Of course, but they will have to pay attention to the Caucusus and not just run rampant to Berlin.

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Post #: 55

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/20/2009 4:29:02 AM

borner

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what to try in the first game? get used to all the changes! amazing what you can do when you do not have to worry about more table space for a new/bigger map. I too am looking forward to China. It will make things much more interesting.

(in reply to coregames)

Post #: 56

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/20/2009 6:33:43 AM

Mad Russian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

what to try in the first game? get used to all the changes! amazing what you can do when you do not have to worry about more table space for a new/bigger map. I too am looking forward to China. It will make things much more interesting.

I'm wondering how all those new cities in China will affect US Entry. If there is a chance that USE goes up each time a city is lost and now there are 16 new cities.....well, do the math....US Entry in January 1941!!!!!

Think I'll play the US this time around...yeah..that's what I'll do...

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 4/20/2009 1:50:55 PM >

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Post #: 57

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/20/2009 7:24:40 AM

Orm

Posts: 22154
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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

what to try in the first game? get used to all the changes! amazing what you can do when you do not have to worry about more table space for a new/bigger map. I too am looking forward to China. It will make things much more interesting.

I'm wondering how all those new cities in China will affect US Entry. If there is a chance that USE goes up each time a city is lost and now there are 16 new cities.....well, do the math....US Entry in January 1941!!!!!

Think I'll play the US the time around...yeah..that's what I'll do...

Good Hunting.

MR

US entry has been lowered for chinese cities if you play with the extra cities.

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 58

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/20/2009 11:13:45 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

what to try in the first game? get used to all the changes! amazing what you can do when you do not have to worry about more table space for a new/bigger map. I too am looking forward to China. It will make things much more interesting.

I'm wondering how all those new cities in China will affect US Entry. If there is a chance that USE goes up each time a city is lost and now there are 16 new cities.....well, do the math....US Entry in January 1941!!!!!

Think I'll play the US the time around...yeah..that's what I'll do...

Good Hunting.

MR

US entry has been lowered for chinese cities if you play with the extra cities.

Yes. There was a lot of discussion about this and I make a final decision about the reduction magnitude (which I believe was supported by a forum member group consensus - foggy memory, perhaps wishful).

_____________________________

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 59

RE: What will you try in Your first MWiF game ? - 4/20/2009 12:12:57 PM

Orm

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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

what to try in the first game? get used to all the changes! amazing what you can do when you do not have to worry about more table space for a new/bigger map. I too am looking forward to China. It will make things much more interesting.

I'm wondering how all those new cities in China will affect US Entry. If there is a chance that USE goes up each time a city is lost and now there are 16 new cities.....well, do the math....US Entry in January 1941!!!!!

Think I'll play the US the time around...yeah..that's what I'll do...

Good Hunting.

MR

US entry has been lowered for chinese cities if you play with the extra cities.

Yes. There was a lot of discussion about this and I make a final decision about the reduction magnitude (which I believe was supported by a forum member group consensus - foggy memory, perhaps wishful).

You decided in favor of the majority of the voting forum members.

If you want to look at the discussion you find it here at http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1864802
Steves decision is post #67

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 60