Just got BGNW....

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> John Tiller's Battleground Series >> Just got BGNW....

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Just got BGNW.... - 5/2/2009 2:11:56 AM

V22 Osprey

Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline

The gameplay is very differnt from Battleground Civil War!Some of the game mechanics are different and is gonna take alot to get used to.But I have to say grahpics are a definite big improvement over civil war, even the 2D graphics.Overall a great buy, especially with the bonus Age of Sail which I'm still learning(game just came in the mail today after all).

Any tips, this is my first napoleonic wargame and I'm having a tough time getting used to things like only being able to change formation in the Defensive phase.

And, I now have all the John Tiller game packs(BGCivil War and Campaign Series and now BG Napoleonic wars)

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 5/2/2009 2:14:56 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Just got BGNW.... - 5/2/2009 12:45:23 PM

Andy Moss

Posts: 102
Joined: 5/14/2007
From: Birmingham UK
Status: offline

Civil War and Napoleonics are very different. Orientation of the maps is different and so are a number of aspects of gameplay. Graphics are better. You can melee whilst disordered. No ADF. But the biggest difference is the use of skirmishers of which you can develop a whole subgame on that subject alone. I prefer Napoleonics I have to say.

Start with a small scenario playing both sides manual. Then play the AI. Then increase scale. Don't start with full Waterloo or Borodino. Then you can if you wish start playing another human in PBEM mode, the AI isn't really much of a challenge.

Then of course there are all the free add-ons soon to be available!!!!!

(in reply to V22 Osprey)

Post #: 2

RE: Just got BGNW.... - 11/12/2009 8:22:14 PM

John S

Posts: 101
Joined: 9/5/2004
Status: offline

When you ask about the differences between the BGACW and the BGNW series, I'll give a bit of background that might interest the "war game historians" in the crowd.
Back about 1979, SPI published one of its early "monster games" - Terrible Swift Sword by Richard Berg. This three map, regiment based civil war game was truly ground breaking. The TSS units used a three hex frontage and the game had a lot of other truly memorable and new features for a civil war board game.
About three years later, SPI came out with another "monster game" and what was, in my humble opinion, the greatest board game ever created (and I played board war games from 1960 through 1990) - Wellington's Victory. WV used a two hex frontage with two hex sides flanks and two hex rears. The cavalry rules, with charges and reaction charges, the introduction for the first time of skirmishers, the breakdown of some units into entire groups of skirmishers while other units could only release one strength point of skirmishers, these and many other concepts and rules were among the most inventive developments in war gaming at the time. Sadly, about two years later SPI went out of business at some point and other bad things happened with respect to the company and the business (though Strategy & Tactics is still going strong and is still the best historical resource of its kind in the business).
Now, I am not trying to start a controversy here, but as a guy who was very familiar with both TSS and WV, I would say to you that when the BG games first came out in the 90's - BG Gettysburg and BG Waterloo - the resemblance in game play, rules, counters, (all the elements) to TSS and WV was, in my humble opinion, truly striking. I recall thinking when I first bought each of these computer games that the differences between the BGACW system and the BGNW approach had everything to do with the decision to use the best elements of TSS on the one hand and WV on the other hand, and the fact that each of them (TSS and WV) had had their origins with different developers using what were, at the time, entirely different and new game development concepts.
This is not to take anything away from the BG developers except to say that when we are enjoying these two computer games, it is nice to recognize that, in my opinion, the most enjoyable parts of the games were originally the creations of some very skillful and imaginative board game developers more than 25 years ago and the differences between the two systems are, in large part, (again in my opinion) reflective of their different points of origin.
By the way, I'll take credit for being the person who suggested to the guys who were in the process of developing BG Shiloh, that they give the attacker a "plus" for fire into the flank/rear of the defending unit!!!

(in reply to Andy Moss)

Post #: 3

RE: Just got BGNW.... - 11/13/2009 12:57:10 AM

simovitch

Posts: 5488
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Moss

But the biggest difference is the use of skirmishers of which you can develop a whole subgame on that subject alone. I prefer Napoleonics I have to say.

Interesting Andy - I like the BGCW treatment of skirmishers better, only because there is less chance of the skirmisher rules being abused by players (and I loathe "house rules" for anything but ftf play.)

One thing a new player should realize is that there are some missing, incorrect, and contradicting statements in the rule books for both games. To compound matters, the in-game "Scenario Notes" files do not display correctly for the different modules (which can be remedied by some simple file houskeeping) and these display the all important parameter data files (which themselves have minor errors...)

Anyway all that aside, I'm still suprised at how much fun it is to play these games. And I've done several graphic mods and AI tweaks and script modifications that gives the AI a better edge in some of the longer scenarios. Hopefully I can compile all this stuff into a patch someday (eh, Erik?)

_____________________________

simovitch

(in reply to Andy Moss)

Post #: 4

RE: Just got BGNW.... - 11/13/2009 1:52:32 PM

Andy Moss

Posts: 102
Joined: 5/14/2007
From: Birmingham UK
Status: offline

Ah yes. Wellington's Victory. And War in the Pacific. Acres of floorspace taken up, counters either being sucked up the vacuum cleaner or chewed up and regurgitated by the cat. Wondering where the sliderule or calculator (big things in those days) had gone to. One of my correspondents actually had to get in and out of his room through his bedroom window! I agree the ideas were there in those games, but we have to thank Tiller for transforming them into pc format, and taking them to a new level. Now I can play a turn at lunchtime on my office pc, then save until I'm ready to play again.

(in reply to John S)

Post #: 5