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RE: Enola Gay at Tinian personal photo

 
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RE: Enola Gay at Tinian personal photo - 5/27/2009 4:12:46 AM   
TOMLABEL


Posts: 5116
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From: Alabama - ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Wow...look at the runway. It looks like they just piled 18 inch of crushed coral on top of the soil.

Can you imagine all the solvents and tire dust and petroleum products that run right into the ocean every time in rains. I wonder how long it took to get the EIR through.

Also, how did they get a prop blade pointing exactly vertical on all 4 engines? Does that happen as a result of some mechanical mechanism or luck or did some ground crewman turn the props manually or electrically when the engines were stopped??


Radial engines collect oil in the lower cylinders and the engine starts better if the prop is turned a few times by hand before starting the engine. This pumps some of the oil up to the upper cylinders. B-29s had the largest engines deployed up to that point and the engines were marginal enough already, so hand cranking the props were a fairly standard procedure for the ground crew. They probably left the props in one, known position so it was obvious that the props had been turned.

Bill



Dang, Bill!

Attention all hands... Bill is the human encyclopedia of all things not commonly known about US aircraft!

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Post #: 31
RE: Jake's Jalopy - 5/27/2009 10:29:23 AM   
rjopel

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff

My father's B-29 crew that flew out of Tinian's North Field.



The rows are inverted as the front is really the back, etc.



Ok, I got all the crew position names except RN and CFC.

What positions are those?

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Post #: 32
RE: Jake's Jalopy - 5/27/2009 11:27:51 AM   
wdolson

 

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Status: offline 		I believe RN would be Reserve Navigator.  CFC might mean Commander, Fire Control.  There was one gunner who could designate which gunner had control of which turret.

Bill


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Post #: 33
RE: Jake's Jalopy - 5/27/2009 12:41:36 PM   
ravincravin


Posts: 131
Joined: 5/20/2009
From: Near Tampa, Florida, USA
Status: offline 		Correction to the Peashooter's designation. It's P-26 not P-31. I don't know what I was thinking of when I posted that.

Good looking crew Tocaff. I understand it was an all day flight to and from Japan from Tinian. One observation, the B-17 used a 10 member crew but I see the B-29 takes 11 members. Does that mean there was an additional machine gun station on the B-29?


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Post #: 34
RE: Carriers in Saipan Harbor - 5/27/2009 11:01:40 PM   
ravincravin


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Joined: 5/20/2009
From: Near Tampa, Florida, USA
Status: offline 		Perhaps some of the naval historians in the forum can identify the carriers in this picture. The caption is faded and I can only make out "four carriers in Saipan Harbor". My best guess for the time frame is the 2nd half of '44 to the 1st qtr. of '45.

To me they both appear to be in the carrier escort class but don't match any in the game. I'm more of an aircraft enthusiest and defer this one to the navy guys.






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Post #: 35
RE: Carriers in Saipan Harbor - 5/27/2009 11:08:32 PM   
AW1Steve


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From: Mordor Illlinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravincravin

Perhaps some of the naval historians in the forum can identify the carriers in this picture. The caption is faded and I can only make out "four carriers in Saipan Harbor". My best guess for the time frame is the 2nd half of '44 to the 1st qtr. of '45.

To me they both appear to be in the carrier escort class but don't match any in the game. I'm more of an aircraft enthusiest and defer this one to the navy guys.







I'd guess CVE's of the Commerce bay class.

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Post #: 36
RE: Carriers in Saipan Harbor - 5/27/2009 11:11:53 PM   
Terminus


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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Both of them look like Commencement Bay-class ships to me.

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Post #: 37
RE: Enola Gay at Tinian personal photo - 5/27/2009 11:15:41 PM   
Terminus


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From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TOMLABEL

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Wow...look at the runway. It looks like they just piled 18 inch of crushed coral on top of the soil.

Can you imagine all the solvents and tire dust and petroleum products that run right into the ocean every time in rains. I wonder how long it took to get the EIR through.

Also, how did they get a prop blade pointing exactly vertical on all 4 engines? Does that happen as a result of some mechanical mechanism or luck or did some ground crewman turn the props manually or electrically when the engines were stopped??


Radial engines collect oil in the lower cylinders and the engine starts better if the prop is turned a few times by hand before starting the engine. This pumps some of the oil up to the upper cylinders. B-29s had the largest engines deployed up to that point and the engines were marginal enough already, so hand cranking the props were a fairly standard procedure for the ground crew. They probably left the props in one, known position so it was obvious that the props had been turned.

Bill



Dang, Bill!

Attention all hands... Bill is the human encyclopedia of all things not commonly known about US aircraft!


Erm, that's quite common knowledge... Sorry...

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Post #: 38
RE: Enola Gay at Tinian personal photo - 5/27/2009 11:27:57 PM   
mdiehl

 

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quote:

I'm not sure what memorial day is, is it the Victims of the Atomic Bomb we remember or the ones who dropped it ?


The ones who dropped it, along with other American soldiers of WW2 and other wars who fought in defense of freedom.

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Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

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Post #: 39
RE: Enola Gay at Tinian personal photo - 5/27/2009 11:33:41 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		Diehl, just FYI, "Japan" knew exactly what Memorial Day is.

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Post #: 40
RE: Enola Gay at Tinian personal photo - 5/27/2009 11:34:06 PM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		RN is "radioman-navigator." I think CFC is something like "Central Fire Control" officer. B-29s that retained their AA weaponry had a GE computer operated by a central fire control operator that could be used to slave all the MG turrets to a single operator and correct for different angles of deflection from the gun turrets to a single target, thus placing 12x .50cal on a single hostile at the CFC's discretion.



< Message edited by mdiehl -- 5/27/2009 11:37:16 PM >

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Didn't we have this conversation already?

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Post #: 41
RE: Jake's Jalopy - 5/27/2009 11:39:34 PM   
pmelheck1

 

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From: Alabama
Status: offline 		I think CFC is central fire control... Top and bottom turrets. Been my experence there's only one commander on an aircraft and their a little protective of the title.

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Post #: 42
RE: Enola Gay at Tinian personal photo - 5/27/2009 11:40:48 PM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		BTW, just so you get an idea of how effective that was, one B-29 called "A Square 52" survived being rammed by 2 Japanese fighters, and was credited with destroying 12 other fighters using fire control slaved to the central computer, on 27-1-1945.

The computer could slave both top and both bottom turrets to a single target. IIRC it couldn't slave the tail gun.

< Message edited by mdiehl -- 5/27/2009 11:43:04 PM >

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Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

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Post #: 43
RE: Enola Gay at Tinian personal photo - 5/28/2009 1:25:52 AM   
ravincravin


Posts: 131
Joined: 5/20/2009
From: Near Tampa, Florida, USA
Status: offline 		I heard the B-29 was the first bomber with a pressurized cabin which made it necessary for remotely operated machine guns but I didn't know they were tied into a computer and were that effective. Wow, very interesting. Thanks for the info.

I concur about the Commencement Bay Class after comparing it to the photo.

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Post #: 44
RE: Jake's Jalopy - 5/28/2009 1:34:57 AM   
wdolson

 

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From: Near Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravincravin

Correction to the Peashooter's designation. It's P-26 not P-31. I don't know what I was thinking of when I posted that.

Good looking crew Tocaff. I understand it was an all day flight to and from Japan from Tinian. One observation, the B-17 used a 10 member crew but I see the B-29 takes 11 members. Does that mean there was an additional machine gun station on the B-29?




B-29 crews varied in size. I believe a full crew was 12. On some planes, some positions weren't filled and when they stripped the turrets off them, the gunners were out of jobs.

Bill

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Post #: 45
RE: Jake's Jalopy - 5/28/2009 4:51:14 AM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Further inspection shows that "A Square 52" was the group ID and plane number. An "A" over an open (not filled) black box over 52 on the rudder. Crash landed back at base because of the damage inflicted by the two planes that rammed her.

quote:

heard the B-29 was the first bomber with a pressurized cabin which made it necessary for remotely operated machine guns but I didn't know they were tied into a computer and were that effective.


Another advantage of the computer was that if a gunner was wounded or killed the CFC could slave the injured gunner's turret to one of the other gunners. You could have one gunner attending another wounded gunner with help from a third gunner and have the fourth gunner shooting with all four turrets on one target.

Also bear in mind that 12 credited probably amounts to something like 4 shot down. Still a very good targeting system. The B-29 really was a generation ahead of every other bomber and in every way. They have a B-17, a B-24, and a B-29 at the local air and space museum. If you stick your head in through the first two and then the B-29 it really feels like you stepped out of the 1930s and into the 1950s. It shows in EVERYTHING.

< Message edited by mdiehl -- 5/28/2009 4:55:36 AM >

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

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Post #: 46
RE: Jake's Jalopy - 5/28/2009 6:17:38 AM   
sanch

 

Posts: 421
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Status: offline 		The 'computer' was analog - the guts were 'servo motors' which were similar to normal electrical motors except they had two sets of coils. One was fixed at constant voltage at 400 mhz, and the other variable. As the variable changed, the rpm's changed. Gang these things together, and use the output to drive rheostats or other electrical switches for turret motor power feeds, and presto - remote controlled turrets.

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Post #: 47
RE: New Picture of Tinian - 5/29/2009 12:07:48 AM   
ravincravin


Posts: 131
Joined: 5/20/2009
From: Near Tampa, Florida, USA
Status: offline 		Excerpt from Meet the Marianas, a War Dept. publication.

“Don’t blame Japanese beer if you see flying foxes hanging from trees like tiny Tarzans. They are really fruit bats. Thay are small and smelly but the islanders consider them a tasty dish. … if you like to eat small smelly bats.

But you really had too much to drink when you see snakes. The only snake in the Marianas has a name bigger than its size—Typhlops braminus. It looks like a somewhat seedy earthworm, hardly longer then your finger. Harmless, too.

You can carry a gecko around in your pocket if you want to. … His cousin, the monitor lizard, wouldn’t fit into your pocket. He’s hour feet long. He’s got sharp teeth and claws. Give him a chance to run away from you. He likes you less than you like him.

Wasps and ants are pretty mean here. They sting. So do scorpions. Centipedes don’t sting. They bite. It feels the same either way: hurts like hell.”

End of except.

Of course, the best way to handle pain is to not feel it at all. You can always get plastered at your neighborhood officers club in Tinian (photo below). The caption of this photo is “This is our officer’s club we built. It gives you an idea of it anyhow.”





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Post #: 48
RE: Jake's Jalopy - 5/29/2009 1:28:39 AM   
AW1Steve


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From: Mordor Illlinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I believe RN would be Reserve Navigator.  CFC might mean Commander, Fire Control.  There was one gunner who could designate which gunner had control of which turret.

Bill



I've heard former B-29 crew members refer to a "radar/Navigator". Could that be the RN? The B-29 was the 1st bomber to have ESM gear and several types of RADAR as standard equipment.

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Post #: 49
RE: New Picture of Tinian - 5/29/2009 1:33:07 AM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
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From: Mordor Illlinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravincravin

Excerpt from Meet the Marianas, a War Dept. publication.

“Don’t blame Japanese beer if you see flying foxes hanging from trees like tiny Tarzans. They are really fruit bats. Thay are small and smelly but the islanders consider them a tasty dish. … if you like to eat small smelly bats.

But you really had too much to drink when you see snakes. The only snake in the Marianas has a name bigger than its size—Typhlops braminus. It looks like a somewhat seedy earthworm, hardly longer then your finger. Harmless, too.

You can carry a gecko around in your pocket if you want to. … His cousin, the monitor lizard, wouldn’t fit into your pocket. He’s hour feet long. He’s got sharp teeth and claws. Give him a chance to run away from you. He likes you less than you like him.

Wasps and ants are pretty mean here. They sting. So do scorpions. Centipedes don’t sting. They bite. It feels the same either way: hurts like hell.”

End of except.

Of course, the best way to handle pain is to not feel it at all. You can always get plastered at your neighborhood officers club in Tinian (photo below). The caption of this photo is “This is our officer’s club we built. It gives you an idea of it anyhow.”






Unfortunately a cargo ship from the Solomons off loaded stowaways. Guam and the other Marianas Islands have a problem with the Brown tree snake. It has no natural enemies there, and has decimated the native song bird population. And fruit bats , while tastey (or so my Chamorran friends say) are now endangered. In two years on the Marianas I only saw them in a small "zoo".

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RE: New Picture of Tinian - 5/29/2009 12:09:20 PM   
ravincravin


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From: Near Tampa, Florida, USA
Status: offline 		It's sad how one small act could screw up the ecology of the Marianas in such a short time. Bummer!

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Post #: 51
RE: New Picture of Tinian - 5/29/2009 12:58:41 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravincravin

It's sad how one small act could screw up the ecology of the Marianas in such a short time. Bummer!


Yeah just ask our Australian friends about those rabbits!

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