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jap radar - 6/6/2009 6:28:23 AM

tigercub

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any one who has good info on this subject to come forward and ad please.

1. did you know When the Marines captured the airfield on Guadalcanal, they also captured an intact air warning radar!
2.The IJN equiped, IIRC, Hyuga with a 10cm radar in May 1942. This means that the IJN had a centimetric radar deployed within 6 months of the British deployment of Type 271, and within months of the first combat use of SG by the USN.
3.my records show that the japs made 3,903 radar sets large and small there was more made but i do not have the information at this time.
i will scan a copy of my info shorty it gives a brake down of sets ranges and types from the Australian goverment.
http://www.combinedfleet.com/radar.htm
I know its not a question about AE but there a lot of talk about Jap radar.

Tiger!

< Message edited by tigercub -- 6/7/2009 2:09:26 PM >

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RE: jap radar - 6/6/2009 10:08:01 AM

Terminus

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The Hyuga did have a Type 22 10cm radar installed in late May 1942. This was a prototype, and was removed shortly afterwards when testing found it unsatisfactory. The Type 22 didn't enter full service until 1944.

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RE: jap radar - 6/6/2009 1:47:18 PM

wdolson

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The Japanese also didn't embrace radar like other countries did. I've read they recovered some radar sets in their conquests, which boosted their development. However, the Code of Bushido kind of frowned on such technological advances. As a result, operator training was initially poor and it took a while before practicality overcame idealism.

By late war they were using radar a fair bit, but they still lagged behind the US and British in application of it. At Leyte Gulf, the Japanese surface ships were still mostly relying on visuals for gun laying, even though many ships had radar. At Surigao Strait, Olendorf's BBs never laid eyes on the enemy, but their radar aiming was good enough to pummel anything in range. One US ship ended up getting damaged by friendly fire from the BBs.

The Japanese were quicker to adopt air warning radar though.

Bill

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RE: jap radar - 6/6/2009 2:20:11 PM

jwilkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub
I know its not a question about AE but there a lot of talk about Jap radar.

We have good data on Japanese radar and it is incorporated into AE. You will see clear differences between AE and stock in this regard.

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RE: jap radar - 6/7/2009 4:36:42 AM

Kull

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

We have good data on Japanese radar and it is incorporated into AE.

I'll bet you do. Somebody working up a doctoral dissertation on the technological aspects of the WWII Pacific Theatre might be able to write the whole thing referencing nothing more than the AE team archives.

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Post #: 5

RE: jap radar - 6/7/2009 5:18:54 AM

Japan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

We have good data on Japanese radar and it is incorporated into AE. You will see clear differences between AE and stock in this regard.

Better or worse then in AE ?

Regardless of anwser, I think it is good that you have adjusted it to the more "correct"... But what is the adjustment ? Better or Worse ?

-

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RE: jap radar - 6/8/2009 12:02:06 AM

tondern

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The Hyuga did have a Type 22 10cm radar installed in late May 1942. This was a prototype, and was removed shortly afterwards when testing found it unsatisfactory. The Type 22 didn't enter full service until 1944.

Thanks Mr. T. for an mpressively precise response. J. Prados in "Combined Fleet Decoded" (p.277) states that in March 1942 HIRYU had air search radar during the Indian Ocean raid. That seems early, but he cites specific Japanese after battle reports.

Does that mean HIRYU had radar at Midway, or was this another experimental unit that was removed? Given the "radar bonus" this would have significant implications for the 1942 carrier battles.

Of course, if I'm the allied player I should not KNOW if an enemy carrier had radar. In fact I probably would assume they could not have it (in'42), given the allied (mis-)underestimation of Japanese capabilities.

Hmmm. Historical accuracy is difficult to replicate.

Thanks,
Johnny

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RE: jap radar - 6/8/2009 12:11:31 AM

jwilkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Japan
Better or worse then in AE ?

Define "better or worse" in this case.

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RE: jap radar - 6/8/2009 3:45:09 AM

tigercub

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I made this post to get information not start in fighting,i have never read about in March 1942 HIRYU having Radar! but this is the stuff i am looking for.Thanks Tondern

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RE: jap radar - 6/8/2009 6:06:07 AM

tigercub

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The battleship Isa had a 1.5m mark2 model 1 air warning Radar in the battle of midway range 100 km for groups of planes and 70km for single planes.

The battleship Hyuga had a 10cm surface radar type2 model2 range:aircraft, group at 35 km, single at 17 km, surface ship (large) 34.5 km.

not much use to them when the battle ships were far to the south.LOL

< Message edited by tigercub -- 6/8/2009 6:24:43 AM >

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RE: jap radar - 6/8/2009 6:57:57 AM

Howard Mitchell

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tondern

J. Prados in "Combined Fleet Decoded" (p.277) states that in March 1942 HIRYU had air search radar during the Indian Ocean raid. That seems early, but he cites specific Japanese after battle reports.

Does that mean HIRYU had radar at Midway, or was this another experimental unit that was removed? Given the "radar bonus" this would have significant implications for the 1942 carrier battles.

Haven't got time to look it up now, but I have read somewhere (Shattered Sword?) that this arose because of a mis-translation of a Japanese document - no Japanese carrier had radar at Midway.

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RE: jap radar - 6/8/2009 7:03:17 AM

tigercub

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its seems the hiryu did not have Radar in the battle of Midway...

Take a look at this http://ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/USSBS/IJO/IJO-2.html
Q. Did the Hiryu of any of the other carriers or ships have radar?
A. No, not any. As soon as we got back they put them on the carriers. July 1942 both battleships and carriers received them.
Close the bloody gate on your way out (The horse has bolted Sir)

< Message edited by tigercub -- 6/8/2009 7:05:01 AM >

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RE: jap radar - 6/8/2009 8:22:36 AM

Japan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Define "better or worse" in this case.

Ok.. Is the Jap Radar in AE "better" as in Stronger, Longer Range, More Reliable, more accurate... Or "worse" as in less accurate, less range ect...

I think adjustment towards more historical correct (whatever direction) is an improvement that is good.

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RE: jap radar - 6/8/2009 2:38:07 PM

jwilkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Japan

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Define "better or worse" in this case.

Ok.. Is the Jap Radar in AE "better" as in Stronger, Longer Range, More Reliable, more accurate... Or "worse" as in less accurate, less range ect...

I think adjustment towards more historical correct (whatever direction) is an improvement that is good.

I can say YES to the more historically accurate part.

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Post #: 14

RE: jap radar - 6/8/2009 4:24:24 PM

HMS Resolution

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tondern

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The Hyuga did have a Type 22 10cm radar installed in late May 1942. This was a prototype, and was removed shortly afterwards when testing found it unsatisfactory. The Type 22 didn't enter full service until 1944.

Thanks Mr. T. for an mpressively precise response. J. Prados in "Combined Fleet Decoded" (p.277) states that in March 1942 HIRYU had air search radar during the Indian Ocean raid. That seems early, but he cites specific Japanese after battle reports.

Does that mean HIRYU had radar at Midway, or was this another experimental unit that was removed? Given the "radar bonus" this would have significant implications for the 1942 carrier battles.

Of course, if I'm the allied player I should not KNOW if an enemy carrier had radar. In fact I probably would assume they could not have it (in'42), given the allied (mis-)underestimation of Japanese capabilities.

Hmmm. Historical accuracy is difficult to replicate.

Thanks,
Johnny

According to Shattered Sword, Hiryu did not have radar.

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RE: jap radar - 6/8/2009 9:25:43 PM

tondern

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Thanks Howard, Tigercub and HMS Resoluition,

I had believed that it was, at the earliest, around July - August '42 before IJN carriers had even experimental radar on a few CVs, but Prados is definite in claiming March '42. Tigercub's reference to the Hiryu's air officer at Midway, Cpt. Kawaguchi, does seem pretty clear, unless the translator in the interrogation botched "radar."

Isn't it interesting that this factual detail is not clear after copius research and almost 70 years?

Given the tenor of some posts I hasten to add that I am not criticizing the developers' choices. They should use the historical consensus for device dates, even if some intriguing outlier data points exist.

Best,
Johnny

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Post #: 16

RE: jap radar - 6/9/2009 12:09:13 AM

Crimguy

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I just read an article written by one of the pilots that sunk Hyuga:

LINK

Reads like a Hollywood script.

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RE: jap radar - 6/9/2009 12:58:28 AM

Erik Rutins

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That's quite a read, thanks for the link, Crimguy.

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Post #: 18

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jap radar