RE: ASW in 1944

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: ASW in 1944

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> RE: ASW in 1944

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: ASW in 1944 - 7/1/2009 3:21:36 PM

ckammp

Posts: 756
Joined: 5/30/2009
From: Rear Area training facility
Status: offline

deleted

< Message edited by ckammp -- 11/1/2009 2:37:26 AM >

(in reply to Charles2222)

Post #: 61

RE: ASW in 1944 - 7/1/2009 3:43:22 PM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

no wonder I�ve never seen them hitting anything as I immedietely upgrade those to Babs and further on to Dinahs as soon as they�re available. The Babs and Dinah don�t carry bombs.

_____________________________

(in reply to ckammp)

Post #: 62

RE: ASW in 1944 - 7/1/2009 3:59:00 PM

AirGriff

Posts: 701
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Historical the US lost 50+ subs during the war spread evenly through out it duration.

The number and effectiveness of US subs increased markedly towards the end of 1943 to such and extent that the Japaesed lost 5,0000,000+ tons of shipping in total to US subs and for one period during 1944 were sinking 50 ish ships per week.

In the game the best Jap a/c is the Liz but this isn't available in Stock. Use you a/c to find them and PC to sink them.

while Allied subs can be a real pain in the game, the usual outcome in a PBEM is the subs being far more impotent than they were in real life.

That might be because in real life, most of the pre-war skippers were replaced for not being agressive. How many players really take the effort to change out every skipper, and how many just leave the timid ones in place?

I usually replace the sub skippers with more aggressive one's, but I stumbled across an interesting technique to increase a sub crew's experience. I forgot to replace a really horrible sub skipper once and sent the sub out with him, at least twice before I caught it. The sub got peppered so many times from asw that the crew's experience shot up to well over 60. Now I've replaced the captain and the sub's doing pretty good...I keep a special eye on it...my little pet project. How's that for a bass ackwards method of training

_____________________________

(in reply to AW1Steve)

Post #: 63

RE: ASW in 1944 - 7/1/2009 5:58:29 PM

mdiehl

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline

quote:

Historical the US lost 50+ subs during the war spread evenly through out it duration.

52 subs to all causes, including groundings, training accidents, friendly fire, possible uboats (for at least one Atlantic US sub), collisions, mines and enemy action. I'll post a frequency distribution of losses by cause in this thread later this week. A book "The Last Patrol" provides a very good brief operational summary of the war cruises and final hours of each of the lost US subs. It predates the finding of Grunion, whose loss remains somewhat mysterious.. .circumstantial evidence is lining up in favor of a circular run.

I've finished the tally through November 1943. So far, only one US sub sunk by Japanese aircraft. It was at mooring in Cavite on 10 Dec 1941. Two others "attacked by a.c." but evidence indicates IJN DDs or subchasers accomplished the sinking.

More anon.

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to denisonh)

Post #: 64

RE: ASW in 1944 - 7/1/2009 9:07:38 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: flaggelant

seeing recon planes attacking subs always makes me laugh
(and doubt the capability of the pilot...)

*Pilot fires flare gun at sub*

supposed a betty/ nell would fly extended range, not carrying torps that would be a situation where you might score a hit,
but thats a lot of work to go trough�for some sub drifting along hundreds of miles out of the coast..

nothing to do with extended range. All torp carrying aircraft carry (should carry) bombs when being on nav search. But that doesn�t work for IJN 2e bombers in my WITP version.

You are correct about the recon planes, that�s just odd...

At least some recon planes have bomb(s) in their loadout.

depends on the mod probably. Never played a mod that had armed recons in and stock definetely hasn�t. At least not for the Japanese and I�m not aware of a bomb armed Allied recon either in stock.

i thought some of the Dutch recon planes had a bomb, but i'll check...

EDIT: when i get home in about 9 hours...

FK.51 (biplane) has no bombs,
CW.22 Falcon - has 2 x 7.7 mgs, 100 pound GP bomb external in CHS and stock

Attachment (1)

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 65

RE: ASW in 1944 - 7/1/2009 9:28:28 PM

stuman

Posts: 3907
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline

So the Ida my be moderately effectively as a sub spotter/attacker ? I never thought about that. Are we sure the Ida really uses its bombs ? I will start paying attention.

< Message edited by stuman -- 7/2/2009 9:37:03 AM >

_____________________________

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley

(in reply to mdiehl)

Post #: 66

RE: ASW in 1944 - 7/1/2009 11:54:40 PM

Charles2222

Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ckammp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: flaggelant

seeing recon planes attacking subs always makes me laugh
(and doubt the capability of the pilot...)

*Pilot fires flare gun at sub*

supposed a betty/ nell would fly extended range, not carrying torps that would be a situation where you might score a hit,
but thats a lot of work to go trough�for some sub drifting along hundreds of miles out of the coast..

nothing to do with extended range. All torp carrying aircraft carry (should carry) bombs when being on nav search. But that doesn�t work for IJN 2e bombers in my WITP version.

You are correct about the recon planes, that�s just odd...

At least some recon planes have bomb(s) in their loadout.

depends on the mod probably. Never played a mod that had armed recons in and stock definetely hasn�t. At least not for the Japanese and I�m not aware of a bomb armed Allied recon either in stock.

Oh no, there was definitely a recon plane for IJ that had a bombing capability. I know this as fact because for my very limited playtime (I only play stock), early on I had a group of these planes and they were the terror of subs. They by far outperformed other IJ planes in hitting subs. The problem was their payload was slight, so they would probably never sink anything, but you would assume they were at least damaging them. I think there is only 1-2 groups of that plane the entire game. I can't remember what they were called. One of them starts on the east China coast somewhere.

In stock, the Ki-36 Ida is a recon equipped with 5x30 Gp bombs. There are two units: 6th Rec.Sentai in Tientsin, and 74th Rec.Chutai in Takao. I've never used them for ASW, so I don't know how effective they would be in that role.
Hope this helps.

Great, yup, that's the one. I could only recollect that it was a short lady's name.

(in reply to ckammp)

Post #: 67

RE: ASW in 1944 - 7/2/2009 12:08:21 AM

Charles2222

Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline

For anybody who wishes to use the Ida for sub chasing, I can't recall how I used them to tell the truth. I was operating under the notion that concentrating search ranges to even below the optimal level would achieve higher results. The reason that is important is because the area where I used them was very confined (the Takao area) so that there were plenty of targets within two hexes. With things so close as well, I tended very heavily to use ASW missions instead of naval searches. I probably wouldn't put more than one or two groups into some degree of a search in that area, as there were tons of subs anyway. So despite it's short range, since I had plenty of range 1 targets, I'm thinking I used them for ASW instead of searching. I probably did this also because I was surprised they could ASW. Somebody here at Matrix IIRC, was saying that they probably have added capability to hit and/or spot subs because they have recon ability, unlike probably any of the other planes we can use for ASW.

I don't think I ever checked to see what damage they caused, so they might not even be inflicting anything, but I was definitely getting alleged hits. It's at least something to use early in the war, as all that aerial power around Takao, even with many having a lot of experience, can't seem to manage to hit anything the first month except the Ida.

< Message edited by Charles_22 -- 7/2/2009 12:09:07 AM >

(in reply to Charles2222)

Post #: 68

RE: ASW in 1944 - 7/2/2009 12:08:20 PM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: ckammp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: flaggelant

seeing recon planes attacking subs always makes me laugh
(and doubt the capability of the pilot...)

*Pilot fires flare gun at sub*

supposed a betty/ nell would fly extended range, not carrying torps that would be a situation where you might score a hit,
but thats a lot of work to go trough�for some sub drifting along hundreds of miles out of the coast..

nothing to do with extended range. All torp carrying aircraft carry (should carry) bombs when being on nav search. But that doesn�t work for IJN 2e bombers in my WITP version.

You are correct about the recon planes, that�s just odd...

At least some recon planes have bomb(s) in their loadout.

depends on the mod probably. Never played a mod that had armed recons in and stock definetely hasn�t. At least not for the Japanese and I�m not aware of a bomb armed Allied recon either in stock.

Oh no, there was definitely a recon plane for IJ that had a bombing capability. I know this as fact because for my very limited playtime (I only play stock), early on I had a group of these planes and they were the terror of subs. They by far outperformed other IJ planes in hitting subs. The problem was their payload was slight, so they would probably never sink anything, but you would assume they were at least damaging them. I think there is only 1-2 groups of that plane the entire game. I can't remember what they were called. One of them starts on the east China coast somewhere.

In stock, the Ki-36 Ida is a recon equipped with 5x30 Gp bombs. There are two units: 6th Rec.Sentai in Tientsin, and 74th Rec.Chutai in Takao. I've never used them for ASW, so I don't know how effective they would be in that role.
Hope this helps.

Great, yup, that's the one. I could only recollect that it was a short lady's name.

How do you know she was a short lady?
(barummm-pummmm)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by m10bob -- 7/2/2009 12:10:47 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Charles2222)

Post #: 69

RE: ASW in 1944 - 7/2/2009 1:18:35 PM

Charles2222

Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: ckammp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: flaggelant

seeing recon planes attacking subs always makes me laugh
(and doubt the capability of the pilot...)

*Pilot fires flare gun at sub*

supposed a betty/ nell would fly extended range, not carrying torps that would be a situation where you might score a hit,
but thats a lot of work to go trough�for some sub drifting along hundreds of miles out of the coast..

nothing to do with extended range. All torp carrying aircraft carry (should carry) bombs when being on nav search. But that doesn�t work for IJN 2e bombers in my WITP version.

You are correct about the recon planes, that�s just odd...

At least some recon planes have bomb(s) in their loadout.

depends on the mod probably. Never played a mod that had armed recons in and stock definetely hasn�t. At least not for the Japanese and I�m not aware of a bomb armed Allied recon either in stock.

Oh no, there was definitely a recon plane for IJ that had a bombing capability. I know this as fact because for my very limited playtime (I only play stock), early on I had a group of these planes and they were the terror of subs. They by far outperformed other IJ planes in hitting subs. The problem was their payload was slight, so they would probably never sink anything, but you would assume they were at least damaging them. I think there is only 1-2 groups of that plane the entire game. I can't remember what they were called. One of them starts on the east China coast somewhere.

In stock, the Ki-36 Ida is a recon equipped with 5x30 Gp bombs. There are two units: 6th Rec.Sentai in Tientsin, and 74th Rec.Chutai in Takao. I've never used them for ASW, so I don't know how effective they would be in that role.
Hope this helps.

Great, yup, that's the one. I could only recollect that it was a short lady's name.

How do you know she was a short lady?
(barummm-pummmm)

I saw that coming from galaxies away!

(in reply to m10bob)

Post #: 70

RE: ASW in 1944 - 7/2/2009 4:11:28 PM

Dili

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I usually replace the sub skippers with more aggressive one's, but I stumbled across an interesting technique to increase a sub crew's experience. I forgot to replace a really horrible sub skipper once and sent the sub out with him, at least twice before I caught it. The sub got peppered so many times from asw that the crew's experience shot up to well over 60. Now I've replaced the captain and the sub's doing pretty good...I keep a special eye on it...my little pet project. How's that for a bass ackwards method of training

Seems the commander wasn't so bad after all. Maybe a typo in his CV...

(in reply to Charles2222)

Post #: 71

RE: ASW in 1944 - 7/2/2009 4:51:37 PM

bradfordkay

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

BTW, IJN level bombers set to Nav Search or ASW do not score hits. Ever. You will see them attack, but not hit anything.

From yesterday's turn:

Ki-49 Helen attacking Finback at 45,53
Finback is reported HIT

I suppose that because the Helen is an IJA level bomber, your statement might hold true...

EDIT: I see that the problem with IJA LBs is that the game loads them with torpedoes, reducing their chances to hit a sub. It's strange that our DDs can torp a sub, but not the LBs...

Just another problem with the "all torpedoes, all the time" model of IJN LBs!

< Message edited by bradfordkay -- 7/2/2009 5:01:32 PM >

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Q-Ball)

Post #: 72

RE: ASW in 1944 - 7/2/2009 5:11:17 PM

AirGriff

Posts: 701
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

quote:

I usually replace the sub skippers with more aggressive one's, but I stumbled across an interesting technique to increase a sub crew's experience. I forgot to replace a really horrible sub skipper once and sent the sub out with him, at least twice before I caught it. The sub got peppered so many times from asw that the crew's experience shot up to well over 60. Now I've replaced the captain and the sub's doing pretty good...I keep a special eye on it...my little pet project. How's that for a bass ackwards method of training

Seems the commander wasn't so bad after all. Maybe a typo in his CV...

Nah, records indicate the skipper was "Lewis, Jerry"

Leadership-44
Inspiration-90 (made crew laugh a lot)
Nav Skill-35 (reports indicate this number is as high as it is due to commander's unpredictable underwater antics)
Air Skill-40 (accidently launches himself into the air at times with various pieces of equipment)
Land-60 (he learned a lot from that movie he made, "At War with the Army")
Admin-10 (confused supply officers to no end)
Aggression-80 (more than enough bravado to get everybody into a lot of trouble)

_____________________________

(in reply to Dili)

Post #: 73

RE: ASW in 1944 - 7/2/2009 5:54:21 PM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

BTW, IJN level bombers set to Nav Search or ASW do not score hits. Ever. You will see them attack, but not hit anything.

From yesterday's turn:

Ki-49 Helen attacking Finback at 45,53
Finback is reported HIT

I suppose that because the Helen is an IJA level bomber, your statement might hold true...

EDIT: I see that the problem with IJA LBs is that the game loads them with torpedoes, reducing their chances to hit a sub. It's strange that our DDs can torp a sub, but not the LBs...

Just another problem with the "all torpedoes, all the time" model of IJN LBs!

like mentioned earlier, the game is supposed to load the torp carrying aircraft with bombs (extended range loadout) which seems to work with 1E bombers but not with 2E bombers or torp carrying patrols.

When the bomber usually carries bombs then there�s no such problem. Not really related to IJA or IJN, only related to "carries torp at normal range". As the Peggy also has a torp as default loadout, this IJA bomber doesn�t work either on nav search if you�re speaking about hits.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 7/2/2009 5:55:09 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to bradfordkay)

Post #: 74