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RE: Letters from Iwo Jima

 
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RE: Letters from Iwo Jima - 7/14/2009 2:24:12 PM   
morganbj


Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

No, Thin Red Line is not the movie that shall not be named.  But I think it is even worse than the movie that shall not be named.  Windtalkers was bad but nowhere near the level of TRL or that which shall not be named.

That's correct. And anyone who even THINKS of the movie Peral Harbor should be banned. Period.

(in reply to rockmedic109)
Post #: 31
RE: Letters from Iwo Jima - 7/14/2009 2:28:48 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Thin Red Line and the movie that shall not be named are as bad as they get.

Letters was a good movie.

Wind Talkers was awful too, but not as cataclysmically awful as the first two.

I think Enemy at the Gates (Stalingrad) may be the best World War II movie I've seen.

(in reply to morganbj)
Post #: 32
RE: Letters from Iwo Jima - 7/14/2009 3:47:57 PM   
Ubercat

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Near Allentown, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: String


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ubercat

I'm curious. Is Thin Red Line the film that can not be named? I loathed it.

spoiler alert

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The Americans were all racist jerks (except the main character), and the Japanese were all saints who begged pretty please for him to surrender at the end so they wouldn't have to shoot him. Of course, in that alternate universe, the rape of Nan King never occurred. Oh, and didn't the main character also play Jesus in that blood/gore extravaganza Passion of the Christ? I need a vomiting smiley.



TRL is a love/hate movie. I personally love it. I guess it's hard for some people to swallow the fact that sometimes their fellow countrymen are not portrayed as saints and heroes in a movie.


lol. I bet I'm at least as willing to recognize the failings of my fellow Americans as you are. We have our fair share of racist jerks today, and I'm sure we had an even greater proportion in the 40's. I just get pissed at the Americans are ALWAYS the bad guys mentality that rewrites history. However bad we were, the Japanese were worse. Why else would the Pacific Islanders have always welcomed liberation from us as eagerly as they did? I guess they just didn't appreciate being maimed for the amusement of IJA soldiers.

quote:

Don't know where you came up with the "japanese were all saints" part though. There's exactly one scene where they try to convince an american to surrender, and that most likely is because they needed/were ordered to take a prisoner for intel purposes.


It has been years since I saw it. The please please surrender scene is the only one I remember that strongly featured Japanese that weren't being brutally slaughtered and flame throwered by laughing, leering US marines.

_____________________________

"I’m not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I’ve seen what it can do to skyscrapers." -William H. Gascoyne

(in reply to String)
Post #: 33
RE: Letters from Iwo Jima - 7/14/2009 3:49:45 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Terence Malick has a particular story telling style best described as an inner monologue fest. You either like it or you don't. I liked it except for a slew of casting decisions . . . Travolta, Nolte, Clooney, Penn and Cusack all looked terribly out of place. At least Travolta was unintentionally funny. Nolte and Clooney looked like their mortgage was due.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 34
RE: Letters from Iwo Jima - 7/14/2009 4:00:30 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ubercat


It has been years since I saw it. The please please surrender scene is the only one I remember that strongly featured Japanese that weren't being brutally slaughtered and flame throwered by laughing, leering US marines.



Well, considering how you view and feel about ww2 japanese soldiers, would you have treated them kindly, and with compassion, taken their offers of surrender and so on, when you knew that there was noone really watching, and even if there was someone, they wouldn't really mind...

And TBH, i don't really recall any such scenes from the movie anyway, yes, soldiers were being killed here and there in battlescenes, but one would expect that. You could say at some points the japanese were being slaughtered, but they were so because of a rather successful american attack. Close quarters fighting ain't pretty.

PS: It wasn't "please please surrender". It was more like "I, and 12 of my squadmates, have guns pointed at you, now drop your weapon". Language barrier intervenes, one side doesn't understand the other, american gets shot.

PS2: Americans always the bad guys? Saving Private Ryan? Band of Brothers? The new and upcoming The Pacific? most of the war movies made in america.. since.. well, from the beginning?

< Message edited by String -- 7/14/2009 4:04:09 PM >

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(in reply to Ubercat)
Post #: 35
RE: Letters from Iwo Jima - 7/14/2009 4:03:41 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		My distaste for TRL had nothing to do with the portrayal of the Americans.  I don't even remember whatever part of the movie you are talking about.  My dislike has to do with poor acting, actors strutting about with 2002 personnas, the use of a modern Navy frigate, and a really inaccurate depiction of the fighting on Guadalcanal.

Contrast that with two other movies that had story lines that were glamorized and rather nauseating at times:  Saving Private Ryan and Titanic.  While both were flawed in that regard, each did a magnificent job of giving viewers a stunning view of historic event.  TRL, in contrast, was limp and inaccurate.

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 36
RE: Letters from Iwo Jima - 7/14/2009 4:20:08 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

My distaste for TRL had nothing to do with the portrayal of the Americans.  I don't even remember whatever part of the movie you are talking about.  My dislike has to do with poor acting, actors strutting about with 2002 personnas, the use of a modern Navy frigate, and a really inaccurate depiction of the fighting on Guadalcanal.

Contrast that with two other movies that had story lines that were glamorized and rather nauseating at times:  Saving Private Ryan and Titanic.  While both were flawed in that regard, each did a magnificent job of giving viewers a stunning view of historic event.  TRL, in contrast, was limp and inaccurate.


I like the "Thinn red Line" movie!

I also like the book the movie was made upon - it is 1960's novel of the same name by James Jones. He did serve before WWII and at Guadalcanal in WWII and was even wounded - thus "inaccurate depiction of the fighting" is very bold statement!

Also the movie is very fatefuly to the book (and with same sentiment and pace)...

BTW, please read the "The Thin red Line" book and please read the "The Naked and The Dead" book by Norman Mailer (from late 1940's) - they have many similariies!


Leo "Apollo11"

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 37
RE: Letters from Iwo Jima - 7/14/2009 5:28:35 PM   
Ubercat

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Near Allentown, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: String

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ubercat


It has been years since I saw it. The please please surrender scene is the only one I remember that strongly featured Japanese that weren't being brutally slaughtered and flame throwered by laughing, leering US marines.



Well, considering how you view and feel about ww2 japanese soldiers, would you have treated them kindly, and with compassion, taken their offers of surrender and so on, when you knew that there was noone really watching, and even if there was someone, they wouldn't really mind...


I don't know what kind of marine I'd have made if I'd been of age to be one in WW2. As I said, I'm sure that plenty were jerks. My overwhelming impression after seeing the movie was of a grossly imbalanced depiction of both sides morality.

quote:

And TBH, i don't really recall any such scenes from the movie anyway, yes, soldiers were being killed here and there in battlescenes, but one would expect that. You could say at some points the japanese were being slaughtered, but they were so because of a rather successful american attack. Close quarters fighting ain't pretty.

PS: It wasn't "please please surrender". It was more like "I, and 12 of my squadmates, have guns pointed at you, now drop your weapon". Language barrier intervenes, one side doesn't understand the other, american gets shot.


My impression was of pleading to the point of an agonizing unwillingness to shoot the rifle holding American. Saints indeed.

quote:

PS2: Americans always the bad guys? Saving Private Ryan? Band of Brothers? The new and upcoming The Pacific? most of the war movies made in america.. since.. well, from the beginning?


In no way shape or form did I imply that all American made WW2 movies depict us as the bad guys. Mallick made TRL and it was his agenda that colored his work.

_____________________________

"I’m not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I’ve seen what it can do to skyscrapers." -William H. Gascoyne

(in reply to String)
Post #: 38
RE: Letters from Iwo Jima - 7/14/2009 7:26:29 PM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		TRL gets a lot of hate from wargamers. I liked it quite a bit. It was always over shadowed by Saving Private Ryan which came out that same year.

My grandfather who fought in the Pacific as a army engineer said it was to him the most accurate protrayal of being a soldier. Hours of endless boredom punctuated by sheer terror. He also liked that the viwer was as confused as the soldiers in the movie during combat. He said 90% of the time in combat you never knew what the hell was going on more than 10 feet from you.
The movie does have some 'artsy' aspects which I think would turn off a lot of viewers looking for a pure actionfest or hero worship.

(in reply to Ubercat)
Post #: 39
RE: Letters from Iwo Jima - 7/14/2009 7:37:54 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		If we didn't like TRL we're looking for a pure actionfest or hero worship; and because we're wargamers we "hate" the movie?  My father, who is 85 and still spry as he can be, served in the US Army in WWII and saw combat.  He's never played a wargame nor, to my knowledge, touched a computer.  He detested TRL, but appreciated Saving Private Ryan. 

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 40
RE: Letters from Iwo Jima - 7/14/2009 9:10:04 PM   
Footslogger


Posts: 1232
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Washington USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

If we didn't like TRL we're looking for a pure actionfest or hero worship; and because we're wargamers we "hate" the movie?  My father, who is 85 and still spry as he can be, served in the US Army in WWII and saw combat.  He's never played a wargame nor, to my knowledge, touched a computer.  He detested TRL, but appreciated Saving Private Ryan. 



My father served in the Navy, Pacific Theatre. What did your father do, if I may ask?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 41
RE: Letters from Iwo Jima - 7/14/2009 10:00:08 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Sergeant in the OSS (Office of Strategic Services) working in counterespionage - primarily locating and assisting in eradication or "flipping" of enemy agents in France.

(in reply to Footslogger)
Post #: 42
RE: Letters from Iwo Jima - 7/14/2009 11:21:36 PM   
Vladd


Posts: 69
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not American, but I didn't see TRL as portraying the US as bad guys. Just as guys, really. It did show tortured and mutilated US corpses which hardly portrays the Japanese as saints.

It wasn't a patriotic film either, I grant that, but it wasn't trying to be.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 43
RE: Letters from Iwo Jima - 7/15/2009 2:57:07 AM   
Ubercat

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Near Allentown, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vladd

I'm not American, but I didn't see TRL as portraying the US as bad guys. Just as guys, really. It did show tortured and mutilated US corpses which hardly portrays the Japanese as saints.

It wasn't a patriotic film either, I grant that, but it wasn't trying to be.


It did? Like I said, it's been years. Maybe I judge too harshly.

_____________________________

"I’m not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I’ve seen what it can do to skyscrapers." -William H. Gascoyne

(in reply to Vladd)
Post #: 44
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