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RE: AE Player tips - Allied

 
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RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/13/2009 8:23:08 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Treespider's Allied Player Tip #6

Get the Fuel Pipeline to OZ set up ASAP.

There is very little fuel in OZ. Get the pipeline setup as soon as you can. I prefer to base my tankers out of Los Angeles.

From experience - the last thing you want to do is get your carriers to OZ only to discover that they sucked up the last bit of fuel topping off their tanks....while at the same time your tankers haven't even gotten halfway from the west coast.

In the DEI use every tanker you can find to run fuel to OZ from the DEI. Forget the oil...but bring the fuel. I use my smallish tankers and YO's to make local trips from Balikpapan to Java..then run tankers from Tjilitijap on the south coast of Java to Perth.

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Post #: 31
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/13/2009 9:14:15 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Fair warning to future Allied players. #6 will take alot longer than in Stock, particularily before the Allies get merchant reinforcements from the US. Until then, be selective of the warships you base in the Oz/SoPac area. Battleships can actually become liabilities as they are fuel hogs and can suck dry your base in no time flat.

last campaign test...I spent half of 42 building up a decent reserve and that with little fleet activity.



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Post #: 32
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/13/2009 9:17:57 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline 		Maybe I missed the answer but what are more or less the unload rates? To unload a division in WitP you needed like 3 or 4 days if I remember correctly.

What about AE? x2, x3, x4... x6?

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Post #: 33
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/13/2009 9:23:29 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
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Status: offline 		Has the fuel usage for ships been changed in AE, or is there just so little fuel available that the Allies have to watch it carefully in Oz?  Places like Balikpapan and Amboina have tens of thousands of units of fuel stored in the stock game, did that change?

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Post #: 34
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/13/2009 9:39:23 PM   
treespider


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Maybe I missed the answer but what are more or less the unload rates? To unload a division in WitP you needed like 3 or 4 days if I remember correctly.

What about AE? x2, x3, x4... x6?


Depends on the port...the types of ships...unit composition ... and TF type....so can't really tell you.

Theoretically with enough of the right kind of ships in the right kind of TF you could unload your division in a day...likewise in the wrong TF with small civilian ships in a back water port with a small fishing pier it may take three weeks.

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Post #: 35
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/13/2009 9:41:36 PM   
treespider


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Has the fuel usage for ships been changed in AE, or is there just so little fuel available that the Allies have to watch it carefully in Oz?  Places like Balikpapan and Amboina have tens of thousands of units of fuel stored in the stock game, did that change?



Not sure about fuel usage....but in my experience if you are not careful, the two American CV TF will use up a fair bit of the fuel in Eastern OZ when they arrive. It won't completely drain the tanks but you could easily see Brisbane sitting at 0 for an extended period of time.

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Post #: 36
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/13/2009 9:48:05 PM   
Nikademus


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From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		case in point....i sent in some UK carriers from India to Oz and miscalculated the fuel cost. They ended up going dry and had to crawl into port the rest of the way with serious SYS forcing them to refit.

Due to the decreased assets (TK's), coupled with the redesigned map (with 40 mile hexes), coupled with bottlenecks on load/unload rates, one can no longer send in that singular 100 ship TK from the west coast with like 900,000 fuel points that can then be dumped in 2 days time. You actually have to have a continuous pipeline. So with fuel buildup now more drawn out it is far far more easy to get into the negative vs. a positive build up. As mentioned, sending in too many heavies before you have your logistical house in order can unbalance things quickly.

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Post #: 37
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/13/2009 11:19:48 PM   
m10bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Just thought I'd start a thread for some generalized player tips - this is for potential Allied players....

1. In the beginning - If you form a TRANSPORT TF on the US West Coast, DO NOT direct them to any ports other than Pearl, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane or Auckland. Use AMPHIB TF to transport Base Forces and units with Naval Support to the lesser ports first. The AMPHIB TF is not nearly as efficient as the TRANSPORT TF in terms of amount carried but the unload time at smaller ports is significantly higher.

More to follow later....



Treespider...For a couple of years I have been making transport convoys, sending them from Frisco to, say, somewhere around Nw Caledonia, and then, AT SEA, going back in and making them an amphib convoy, thereby getting the speed of the long haul, and the quicker unload speed of the amphibs.

I never deemed it gamey because it was basically the same role as the APA's...

Is this no longer a capability, or will AE continue to allow me to swap convoy types mid-ocean?



You can no longer switch between Transport and Amphib TF...mid voyage.

Units that are loaded on a Transport TF can only be in Strategic Move mode...meaning all of there equipment has been palletized and consolidated for shipping purposes...

Units that are loaded on Amphib TF can only be in Combat Mode...their equipment is loaded so as to be readily accesible for immediate use...this translates into less efficient use of available stowage space.

Once loaded onto a ship you cannot change the units mode...hence the TF that the ships are in that the unit is loaded on cannot be changed.



While I had enjoyed doing what I had been doing, I feel not being able to swap them mid ocean to be a vast improvement, for the very reasons you explained..Thank you..

(Gosh, I love it when they talk dirty!)..

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Post #: 38
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/13/2009 11:38:48 PM   
scout1


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Status: offline 		ok damn it, where's the AE Player tips - Japanese .... ?


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Post #: 39
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/13/2009 11:47:41 PM   
treespider


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scout1

ok damn it, where's the AE Player tips - Japanese .... ?





Treespider's Japanese Player Tips #1

Patience!!!

Unlike WitP, set reasonable goals as the Japanese player...ie read a history book. Perhaps there were some very justifiable reasons why the Japanese did not try to have Oz, India or the far South Pacific conquered by January 1942.


I'll have more Jpanese tips after I've played around with them some more....

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Post #: 40
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 1:54:29 AM   
goodwoodrw


Posts: 2661
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Status: offline 		Is there any sort of documentation a player is privy to that list what size port/TF type. I guess what I'm asking is, in the game documentation is there an unloading schedule formula a player can apply?

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Post #: 41
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 2:38:34 AM   
treespider


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BASB

Is there any sort of documentation a player is privy to that list what size port/TF type. I guess what I'm asking is, in the game documentation is there an unloading schedule formula a player can apply?


Pages 110 through 126 of the manual deal with TF Loading and have several pages of charts within that span...that being said page 127 deals with unloading. Port Load rates have been discussed in other threads...and the Manual will be released shortly...but here is an excerpt

6.3.3.3 Task Force Unloading
TF Unloading is governed by the TF type and is put into two categories: Normal Unloading and Assault Unloading.

6.3.3.3.1 Normal Unloading
Normal Unloading is governed by exactly the same rates, as a function of Port Size, as Loading; both for individual Ship Rates and for the Daily Port Rate. A TF will Unload using the same rate calculations used for loading, modified by the presence of Naval Support and Port Damage, as described above. (AS I noted above this is all discussed on pages 110 thru 126)

-Port Load Adjustments: Naval Support and Damage both affect a Port’s native ability to unload a Task Force.

-Port Rate Limitations: The Daily Port Rate applies to Loading and Unloading together. If a Loading TF uses 70% of the Daily Port Rate, then only 30% remains available for Unloading.

-Port Dock Limitations: The Largest Ship in Port and the Total Tonnage Docked limitations apply to Loading and Unloading together.

-TF Docked/Undocked: All TFs can unload when not docked, amphibious TF types at a more advantageous rate.

6.3.3.3.2 Amphibious Unloading
The Amphibious Unload Rate bonus applies only to ships in an Amphibious TF. Amphibious Unload rates are determined by ship type (i.e., beaching craft, amphibious ship types, or ordinary transport/cargo ship types). There are no Port-derived cargo handling limits. Amphibious Unload only applies to Troops and Cargo (equipment and supply). Amphibious Unload does not apply to Fuel, Oil or Resources. Note that there is also an “initial operations” bonus for the Japanese during the first 4 months of the war.

< Message edited by treespider -- 7/14/2009 2:39:12 AM >

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Post #: 42
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 4:56:03 AM   
byron13


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scout1

ok damn it, where's the AE Player tips - Japanese .... ?




Japanese Player Tip #2: Don't attack the Allies. While it may take some time for the Allies to collect, the cost to play is too high for the Japanese!

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Post #: 43
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 5:13:45 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Treespider's Allied Player Tip #3

Sacrifice some of the Chinese.

The Chinese have a number of weak corps with 40-50 squads. Look at the TO&E's. Some of these corps have a TO&E with 700+ squads others have a TO&E of around 162.

I like to run the small corps with the big TO&E into the Japanese rear...let them get cut-off and try my best to get them annihilated. Once destroyed they will reappear in Chungking 30 days later with 200+ squads.




Japanese tip number 1 - pin these units down and let them die by attrition and they dont come back. At least in stock. Havent tested in AE but I would be surprised if that changed. Can be done in 1 of 3 ways. 1) let the Chinese unit move into an occupied hex, then move in a unit behind it. 2) trap the unit against a natural barrier (seacoast for example or impassible river). 3) move in from all 6 sides. Leave 1 unit behind (I usually use a base force) to hold the unit in place and leave.


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Treespider's Allied Player Tip #4 -

Withdraw Allied Aircraft


A number of American air groups in the US are in restricted commands and have to be withdrawn within the first few months. Go ahead and get rid of them sooner rather than later...the pilots and planes are removed from the game when withdrawn, and so are of no use anyway....so to avoid forgetting to withdraw them and suffering PP penalties just get rid of them ASAP.


I tried this in a 1 player game with the GOLD build. Problem with doing this is, it will eat PPs. So yes, you save planes and pilots but with a trade off of losing PPs. I had 1 PP and I disbanded the P-40s in the PI and I found I was sitting at neg 55 PPs after the fact.

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 7/14/2009 5:15:00 AM >

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Post #: 44
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 6:53:18 AM   
jwilkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
I tried this in a 1 player game with the GOLD build.


GOLD build!? Problem is we don't actually have one of those yet - but we're workin' on it!



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Post #: 45
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 9:58:21 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
I tried this in a 1 player game with the GOLD build.


GOLD build!? Problem is we don't actually have one of those yet - but we're workin' on it!




Ok, perhaps you can translate this for me then (from post 1 of the FAQ):


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


We expect AE to be released in the second half of July. The manuals have not yet "landed" but they are currently on schedule to arrive in our warehouse in that same second half of July. As soon as we have confirmation that the manuals are safely in hand, we will release the game. We are very close to gold on the development side, currently we are checking a gold candidate and it looks like the next build will _probably_ be the gold master.



I guess I dont speak "Matrix", but in MY language that sounded to me like I could refer to it as the gold build and be "_probably_" accurate.

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Post #: 46
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 10:35:11 AM   
Dili

 

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Status: offline 		Candidate is not Gold

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Post #: 47
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 11:55:17 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
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From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Treespider's Japanese Player Tip #2

Don't advance your limited air search assets too far south, leaving a wide open gap into your supply lanes for an American carrier to drive into.

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Post #: 48
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 11:58:27 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Treespider's Allied Player Tip #3

Sacrifice some of the Chinese.

The Chinese have a number of weak corps with 40-50 squads. Look at the TO&E's. Some of these corps have a TO&E with 700+ squads others have a TO&E of around 162.

I like to run the small corps with the big TO&E into the Japanese rear...let them get cut-off and try my best to get them annihilated. Once destroyed they will reappear in Chungking 30 days later with 200+ squads.




Japanese tip number 1 - pin these units down and let them die by attrition and they dont come back. At least in stock. Havent tested in AE but I would be surprised if that changed. Can be done in 1 of 3 ways. 1) let the Chinese unit move into an occupied hex, then move in a unit behind it. 2) trap the unit against a natural barrier (seacoast for example or impassible river). 3) move in from all 6 sides. Leave 1 unit behind (I usually use a base force) to hold the unit in place and leave.





Treespider's Japanese Player Tip #3 ---

Don't forget every Chinese unit that is eliminated re-appears in Chungking 30 days later at 1/3 strength. Yammy claims that tactic...but never implemented against me and provided a nice stream of reinforcements.

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Post #: 49
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 11:58:43 AM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider
Treespider's Japanese Player Tips #1
Patience!!!
Unlike WitP, set reasonable goals as the Japanese player...ie read a history book. Perhaps there were some very justifiable reasons why the Japanese did not try to have Oz, India or the far South Pacific conquered by January 1942.
I'll have more Jpanese tips after I've played around with them some more....


This is what worries me about AE - for me, the real fun in WitP as the Allied player was getting pummeled early, surviving, and coming back. If India, Australia, and other outposts are fairly secure, and if the game adheres much closer to historial capabilities and reality, the adrenaline rush may decline. What's John III gonna do if he can't go bezerk during the first year of the game? :(

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RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 12:56:11 PM   
Mistmatz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider
Treespider's Japanese Player Tips #1
Patience!!!
Unlike WitP, set reasonable goals as the Japanese player...ie read a history book. Perhaps there were some very justifiable reasons why the Japanese did not try to have Oz, India or the far South Pacific conquered by January 1942.
I'll have more Jpanese tips after I've played around with them some more....


This is what worries me about AE - for me, the real fun in WitP as the Allied player was getting pummeled early, surviving, and coming back. If India, Australia, and other outposts are fairly secure, and if the game adheres much closer to historial capabilities and reality, the adrenaline rush may decline. What's John III gonna do if he can't go bezerk during the first year of the game? :(



Well, it seems AE is less of a game and more of a simulation.

And I like it, especially that the 'simulation' is not as easy as it used to be for the allies. The japanese players always had many options to ruin their war effort (eg industry and shipbuilding). Now, with logistics becoming a major problem, the allied players also have something to seriously think about.

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Post #: 51
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 1:18:25 PM   
vettim89


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider
Treespider's Japanese Player Tips #1
Patience!!!
Unlike WitP, set reasonable goals as the Japanese player...ie read a history book. Perhaps there were some very justifiable reasons why the Japanese did not try to have Oz, India or the far South Pacific conquered by January 1942.
I'll have more Jpanese tips after I've played around with them some more....


This is what worries me about AE - for me, the real fun in WitP as the Allied player was getting pummeled early, surviving, and coming back. If India, Australia, and other outposts are fairly secure, and if the game adheres much closer to historial capabilities and reality, the adrenaline rush may decline. What's John III gonna do if he can't go bezerk during the first year of the game? :(


Still gnawing on that old bone, Dan? Can we please actually see AE before we declare it broken? I think AE is going to be a lot different than WiTP as far as how the game is played. One of my profesors in Vet school told us this addage" "Sometimes different is not wrong; sometimes different is just different". No that was in reply to one of my classmates questioning how another veterinarian had handled a case. The student was insinuating that the other vet had screwed up because he had not done it the way we would have doine it at THE Ohio State University. My prof was merely pointing out that there is often more than one correct answer to life's problems.

So no, we won't see the wild free flowing games in AE like WiTP but at the same time we have a lot more cool stuff to play with, more realistic combat results, and a more historical pace. That said, I still think you will see bold moves by good Japanese players because even though it will be harder for the Japanese to do offensive operations, it will likewise be harder for the Allies to set up a decent defense in 1942. It has already been pointed out that the Allies will be hurting for shipping in 1942 and the Port rules will make getting any serious combat power onto far flung islands for defense very difficult for the AFB. So it will be DIFFERENT but not necessarily boring or less stressful as the Allied player early in the war.

ALso from my reading so far, I think places with big ports have become even more important. So Noumea, Auckland, Rabaul, and such are now even more important. My guess is you will see a lot more JFB's heading to places like this as opposed to OZ, India, and places like Palmyra, Nanumea, and Howland/Baker Island.

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Post #: 52
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 2:23:34 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		I haven't declared it broken, I've just been worried that an unintended result of all the improvements may be a decline in excitement.  I hope I'm wrong.  I probably am wrong.

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Post #: 53
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 3:38:25 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Treespider's Japanese Player Tip #2

Don't advance your limited air search assets too far south, leaving a wide open gap into your supply lanes for an American carrier to drive into.


Wouldnt have been bad if air search worked. I had over lapping air cover from Japan right down to Fiji (based on aircraft ranges) but seemingly air search doesnt work (by Bradys testing, I was going to test that when he posted) beyond 10 to 12 hexes. And naval combat doesnt "spot" enemy ships for airplanes either (although subs do - go figure).

The Jap player only has 34 H6Ks they can deploy outside Japan (and 21 more there). Doesnt leave a lot of room for rear area searches which frankly I have a problem with. I feel this is a serious shortcoming in the game.

The Nell has a range of 17 hexes, the Betty a range of 21. It is 33 hexes from Saipan to Tokyo. I had a 36 plane Betty group at Tokyo on 30% search and a 27 (24 actual) Nell group at Saipan also at 30% search. Failed to sight enemy carrier force that is launching strikes at merchies in between them and failed to sight a surface force 12 hexes out that engaged in surface combat twice. You are entitled to your opinion that thats the way it should work. And you would be right. I am entitled to my opinion that that is flawed, and I would be right as well. My opinion is its flawed.

As for pushing "limited air search assets too far south", I had a line of H6Ks from Lae, to Munda, to Tarawa with Nells at Saipan and Wake and Bettys at Tokyo. Sailing the Yorktown just out of Zero range off Japan inviting strikes to chew up bombers in Jan 42 may be a tactic you see no problem with, and frankly I dont either. But when these forces do all this crap, with all these search forces in the area, and I dont spot a thing, THAT I have a problem with.

I also have a problem with your surface combat force reacting to my ships when you dont have any ammo left on them. At least twice this happened. Again, I see a problem with this. Mow frankly I wouldnt have mentioned this at all, but since you brought it up, I thought I would set the record straight.

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Post #: 54
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 4:16:04 PM   
jwilkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz
Well, it seems AE is less of a game and more of a simulation.

Actually, it is a simulation-game.


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Post #: 55
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 5:04:49 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
I haven't declared it broken, I've just been worried that an unintended result of all the improvements may be a decline in excitement.  I hope I'm wrong.  I probably am wrong.


My guess is that there will be the initial stage where everyone tries to figure out how to deal with the new realistic rules and logistical limitations, then as happened with WITP, people will start figuring it out and some remarkable strategies will be created that will be every bit as exciting.

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Post #: 56
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 6:06:52 PM   
SuluSea


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Status: offline 		Any more Allied player tips forthcoming Tree/Guys?

It would be cool to have seperate threads for Japan and allied forces.

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Post #: 57
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 7:40:26 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Status: offline 		Only 1 Tree hasnt been looking at a recent build the China tactic is no longer workable because most of the small Chinese Armies have a reduced TOE so they respawn with moderate strengh I think I missed one Chinese Corps but the rest wont gain strength if destroyed so na na naa na na

I did miss one which I will pick up in patch 1 if the current build stands up

My main watchword for the allies is it is VERY easy to get sucked into a forward defence that cripples your army.

A lot of forces on map at the start have forces you can deploy overseas and it may well look attractive to do so but you do it at the expnse of long term strength.

e.g.

Australian Militia Bdes are cheap to buy out because they start under strength and you deploy them overseas - BUT the c 100 CMF Militia Squads in those Bdes have 1,000 prime Infantry you dont get the mass of devices you got in stock because of the half way house upgrade system.

Each starting squad has the manpower that will eventually turn into AIF Inf Sections.

Because the individual devices convert on upgrade if you waste these undertrained half equipped soldiers you can cripple your later offensive punch.

Same with the Indians you need to preserve your rear area troops and only commit them when trained and fully equipped unless 100% certain the payoff is worth it.

e.g. committing a couple of Aus Militia Divs to PM/ Gili Gili and Lunga is probably possible if you do nothing else with your PP's but A. their combat value in open terrain without forts is negligable and b. losing them will remove those forces from later operations even if you get a cadre back to base.

Small Cadre rebuilds are proibitive because of the drain on key devices.

Be VERY VERY carefull about commiting undertrained and equipped troops.

You have a lot of ways to screw up in the early game by over committing to defence. 

< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 7/14/2009 7:49:59 PM >

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 58
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 7:42:17 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		p.s. BUT if you run away you giv the Japanese the one thing they never have enough of TIME.

You need to balance your ooptions a lot more carefully than stock.

I did a typical Allied turn in about 20 minutes in stock - AE takes me about 40 mins becausae there is so much more to think about.

In many ways the increased complexity after the initial 6 months hits the allies more than the Japanese.


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 59
RE: AE Player tips - Allied - 7/14/2009 9:18:22 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Australian Militia Bdes are cheap


Yeah, you will look at the Aussie Brigade (in Australia) and go - wow! I have a huge Army! But if you check the details - you will find you mostly have a "huge mob". The Armoured units are driving trucks will MGs, and the Infantry must be carrying BB guns - or brown besses - - based on the firepower. So don't send these units toe to toe against like sized Japanese units. You can use a big pile of them on defense if you get desperate - but I would not move them overseas until after they train up and upgrade.

Same goes for the bulk of the Indian units.




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(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 60
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