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Is the PIAT of any use

 
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Is the PIAT of any use - 7/23/2009 8:56:39 AM   
Droop21


Posts: 115
Joined: 7/19/2002
Status: offline 		I've always wondered whether to keep my PIAT or not in my Commonwealth ID, as they have access to armor. I know it is inferior to the Bazooka and the Panzerschreck (not that Commonwealth divisions have access to any of these), but know I'm starting to doubt it has any effective use. I was fighting the 21st Panzer in Cean against the AI. A Panzer IV was a mere 40-50m away of my 2 PIAT teams (I though that a dense urban environment would be portable AT heaven). I kept the Panzer distracted with mortar rounds (quite accurate) and small arms fire. Despite never being shot at, the 2 teams fired all their amo, actualy hitting the Pz IV (with a green circle) +/- 4 times, and did not manage to do any significant damage: it was still mobile with its main gun still working . Did I do something wrong, was I just very unlucky, or are PIAT just a waste of space.
Do you guys keep them and if so, how do you use them
Post #: 1
RE: Is the PIAT of any use - 7/23/2009 5:25:53 PM   
Rift

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 7/23/2009
Status: offline 		Hi Droop, the PIAT was generally for very very close range AT engagements. I believe it was most effective at sub-30 metres ranges. It was best aimed at weak spots, especially the rear of the tank and tracks. It was in some respects quite an effective weapon as crews could get close to a target and fire several shots before being located as there was no tell tale rocket propellant gases as the weapon used a spring to propel the projectile.

(in reply to Droop21)
Post #: 2
RE: Is the PIAT of any use - 7/23/2009 5:44:19 PM   
Scout 50

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/23/2009
Status: offline 		First person accounts said that 50 meters was the absolute max you could think about, and even this was highly questionable, even though the spec was officially 100m. Soldiers hated this "weapon", but it did take out German tanks on occasion. I would try shooting from 30m and under.

(in reply to Droop21)
Post #: 3
RE: Is the PIAT of any use - 7/24/2009 8:35:31 AM   
Droop21


Posts: 115
Joined: 7/19/2002
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info. I indeed had forgotten the (only) nice thing about this weapon: it is quite stealthy. I'm still wondering what the grognards of this game do when armor is available: do you keep PIAT squads or replace them with tanks and regular infantry ?

(in reply to Scout 50)
Post #: 4
RE: Is the PIAT of any use - 7/25/2009 12:35:38 AM   
panzerlehr62


Posts: 314
Joined: 2/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Droop

Thanks for the info. I indeed had forgotten the (only) nice thing about this weapon: it is quite stealthy. I'm still wondering what the grognards of this game do when armor is available: do you keep PIAT squads or replace them with tanks and regular infantry ?


Tell you what, if it were not for 2 piat teams I used in the opening battle at Merville Battery, I am not sure I would have ever gained access to the town at the lower middle section of that map (H2H, GC). Combo'd with the 57mm they did what I needed them to do, allow the infantry to make it across open ground and into the buildings. So they do have use outside of just using against tanks.

Gz..

(in reply to Droop21)
Post #: 5
RE: Is the PIAT of any use - 7/25/2009 10:24:58 PM   
CSO_Talorgan


Posts: 768
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		Are there not tales (from real life) of multiple PIAT rounds *bouncing off* (!) targets or being otherwise useless?

I think the bomb was lobbed by a giant spring, which is where its stealthiness came from. Imagine trying to pull that back while Tigers rumbled down the street!



Does anyone know if it was possible to fire a panzerschreck from inside an (unruined) building?

(in reply to panzerlehr62)
Post #: 6
RE: Is the PIAT of any use - 7/25/2009 11:16:09 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Droop

I've always wondered whether to keep my PIAT or not in my Commonwealth ID, as they have access to armor ...


There actually was an earlier CC scenario titled "The worth of the PIAT"

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(in reply to Droop21)
Post #: 7
RE: Is the PIAT of any use - 7/26/2009 12:54:38 AM   
Senior Drill


Posts: 199
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Quantico
Status: offline 		Personally, I use PIAT teams the same as I use Bazooka teams: Primarily as Recee or Scouts. The absence of dedicated or adhoc recon teams in the order of battle for almost all of the battle groups is a significant departure from the CC5 order of battle. The designers have said that airbourne elements did not have scout sections, but that ignores the adhoc reorgizations done on Day 1. Eh. Book learning versus pracatical application under fire. That does not explain the lack of Recee or Scout teams in Infantry divisional units, however.

Under the current ORBAT, I use PIAT and Bazooka teams as Recee / Scouts. I place them if needed to counter tanks, but primarily use them as fast moving throw-away units to gain ground, clear unexplored terrain to deny that ground for enemy placement on any further battle and to press my territory claims into the enemy's flanks, middle and rear. It is a shame to have to expend AT units as scouts, but there is no other choice in the TLD ORBAT.

If you are up againt tanks in an urban map, PIAT's might be of some small use. A MMG team or any team with a Gammon bomb will probably serve you better.

In bocage or forested terrain, PIATs and Bazooka teams are best used as scouts or replaced with heavier fireprower units.



_____________________________

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre.

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 8
RE: Is the PIAT of any use - 9/21/2009 10:22:14 AM   
FatFlint

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 8/10/2009
From: California
Status: offline 		Piat teams take out my Panther G in Caen.

My opponent took the screen cap and sent it to me. He also got a piat kill earlier in the campaign, but that was on a armored car.

I have a new found respect for Piat teams.


Flint




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

“A pipe of kif before breakfast gives a man the strength of a hundred camels in the courtyard”

(in reply to Senior Drill)
Post #: 9
RE: Is the PIAT of any use - 9/21/2009 10:50:39 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		ow...right up the exhaust pipe!

(in reply to FatFlint)
Post #: 10
RE: Is the PIAT of any use - 9/30/2009 11:41:43 PM   
David The Great

 

Posts: 98
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline 		Does anyone know if it was possible to fire a panzerschreck from inside an (unruined) building?


I m not sure but think not, i know if you fire a normal AT weapon from inside a room ( LAW and simular ) the exhaust flame will BBQ you and all in the room, i believe they recomend a safety zone off about 10 by 50 m behind a LAW .
There are exceptions, i seem to remember that certain shoulder launched AT rockets could be launched from inside a building , Carl Gustav en Pzfst 3 , but i could be mistaken about the exact types. Think the bazooka will give you a nice brown tan if you fire it from inside though

(in reply to CSO_Talorgan)
Post #: 11
RE: Is the PIAT of any use - 10/1/2009 12:10:54 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		in CC you can fire from within buildings


i real life you would have to be very brave or foolhardy.

(in reply to David The Great)
Post #: 12
RE: Is the PIAT of any use - 10/1/2009 11:39:11 PM   
panzerlehr62


Posts: 314
Joined: 2/23/2009
Status: offline 		From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia...

**************************************************************************
"The first model was the RPzB 43 which was 164 cm long and weighed about 9.25 kg when empty. Operators of the RPzB 43 had to wear a protective poncho and a gas mask without a filter to protect them from the heat of the backblast when the weapon was fired. In October 1943, it was succeeded by the RPzB 54 which was fitted with a blast shield (I bet that went over with a bang) to protect the operator. This was heavier and weighed 11 kg empty. This was followed by the RPzB 54/1 with an improved rocket, shorter barrel and a range increased to about 180 meters.


Firing the RPzB generated a lot of smoke both in front and behind the weapon. Because of the weapon's tube and the smoke, the German troops nicknamed it the Ofenrohr ("Stove Pipe"). This also meant that Panzerschreck teams were revealed once they fired, making them targets and, therefore, required them to shift positions. This type of system also made it problematic to fire the weapon from inside closed spaces (such as bunkers or houses), filling the room with toxic smoke and revealing the firing location immediately. This was in contrast to the British PIAT's cumbersome, but non-smoking system, or the Panzerfausts short burst launch system"
**************************************************************************

So not only could a bystander get a tan, but the old boy pulling the trigger might get one as well. The toxic smoke is also somethg I didnt really think about but makes sense since Germany didnt have OSHA.

Gz...







"I know Fritz its 105 degrees out, but the manual says without the filter it should only feel like 103!"

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by panzerlehr62 -- 10/1/2009 11:43:37 PM >

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 13
RE: Is the PIAT of any use - 10/5/2009 9:26:49 PM   
CSO_Talorgan


Posts: 768
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		What does "OSHA" stand for?

(in reply to panzerlehr62)
Post #: 14
RE: Is the PIAT of any use - 10/24/2009 6:00:13 AM   
FeurerKrieg


Posts: 3397
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		Occupational Safety and Hazard association.

They try to keep workers safe from chemicals and stuff in the workplace.

_____________________________


Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

(in reply to CSO_Talorgan)
Post #: 15
RE: Is the PIAT of any use - 10/25/2009 11:43:35 AM   
CSO_Talorgan


Posts: 768
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Occupational Safety and Hazard association.

They try to keep workers safe from chemicals and stuff in the workplace.


So it's America's equivalent of the Health & Safety Executive (HSE).

OK

Cheers!

(in reply to FeurerKrieg)
Post #: 16
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