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RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/3/2009 8:02:14 PM   
SireChaos

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: Frankfurt, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


It was a no-brainer to unload under WITP. I'm re-thinking that under AE. Still leaning toward unloading for fuel efficiency purposes.



Personally, I think it would be easier to keep the small TFs intact to move back and for forth between the base and hub, rather than have to recreate it each time I have to drain the base.



Precisely. It also means you can use shorter-ranged ships around the hubs, and save longer-ranged ones for moving stuff to the Home Islands.

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 151
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/3/2009 8:06:26 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


It was a no-brainer to unload under WITP. I'm re-thinking that under AE. Still leaning toward unloading for fuel efficiency purposes.



Personally, I think it would be easier to keep the small TFs intact to move back and for forth between the base and hub, rather than have to recreate it each time I have to drain the base.



Yep, that's the 'unload' model. As opposed to gathering the small ones into a big task force to go to the home islands with no unloading.

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Post #: 152
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/3/2009 8:47:37 PM   
grraven2004


Posts: 273
Joined: 3/4/2004
From: Cuyahoga Falls OH
Status: offline 		Ok guys let me see if I follow this correctly.

1. Use small freighters and tankers at the bottom of the chain to load the goods.
2 Send these to a central hub unload TF and deadhead it back for another load. Or reload with fuel and supplies if necessary
3 Create a TF with longer legged and larger capacity ships to head to the home islands or a closer hub to the islands
4 Unload those in the HI reload with fuel and or supply to send out to the forward areas.

Is this how I'm reading what you guys are saying?

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Post #: 153
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/3/2009 9:03:37 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: grraven2004

Ok guys let me see if I follow this correctly.

1. Use small freighters and tankers at the bottom of the chain to load the goods.
2 Send these to a central hub unload TF and deadhead it back for another load. Or reload with fuel and supplies if necessary
3 Create a TF with longer legged and larger capacity ships to head to the home islands or a closer hub to the islands
4 Unload those in the HI reload with fuel and or supply to send out to the forward areas.

Is this how I'm reading what you guys are saying?


Basically, that's how I see it and plan to do it. The size of the TF (tonnage and capacity) will be based on the port size and the output at that base.

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Post #: 154
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/3/2009 9:38:26 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
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From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

Speaking as an AFB reading this, you guys probably would need more Betties and less Zeroes than in WITP.

Fighter vs fighter combat is considerably less bloody than it was, but the Betty really is a flying zippo now.  50 a month?  You need more than that.  A lot more.



In Vanilla I make 150 a month...and that is by the middle of 1942. The land based Val/Kate units will be invulable as well most likely.

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Post #: 155
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/4/2009 6:16:53 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline 		Japanese Air Production information ... to doodle on ...

http://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/Home

--Damian--

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 156
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/4/2009 8:57:02 AM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		Thank you Damian, very usefull!

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Post #: 157
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/4/2009 1:33:18 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
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From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Thank you Damian, very usefull!


Indeed, many thanks!!!

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Post #: 158
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/4/2009 2:26:28 PM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		Japanese production i feel like a kid in a toy shop(with 2 cents) i am afraid to buy any thing in case it is to expensive.

Tiger!  

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Post #: 159
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/4/2009 4:23:14 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline 		I cannot get the WitP Staff program to run on my machine - I think its an OS issue which I will be fixing this weekend, but can someone post or link a list of all resources, oil, etc... in the game ? I believe you can export this into an excel spreadsheet. I am using the Grand Campaign. There are far too many bases to do this manually. Many thanks.

Xargun

(in reply to tigercub)
Post #: 160
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/4/2009 5:02:11 PM   
morphin

 

Posts: 572
Joined: 4/26/2002
From: Switzerland
Status: offline 		Hi Damian
Thank's for the AC Production list. You TBO.YTA is not quite correct.:
For Example G4M1-L Betty: TBO.YTA you say 90

Yes, 90 G4M1-L Betty are arriving in 3 Groups, but there are also 3 groups that upgrade to G4M1-L Betty (2x L3Y2 Tina and 1x L3D2 Tabby)
and you also have to count ev. resizing of the groups:

So there are (potential) additional 72 Tina (2x27 resized to 36) and 18 Tabby that upgrades . So it is getting complicated
I speak with PDU off.

Andy

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 161
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/4/2009 5:07:36 PM   
morphin

 

Posts: 572
Joined: 4/26/2002
From: Switzerland
Status: offline 		Xargun

Three possibilities:

1) Use the CSV-files in SCEN directory (if they doesn't exist for your scenario you can generate it with the witploadAE.exe in the same directory)
->That are the "raw"-Data like you see in the editor
2) Generate CSV-Files with the witpstaff utility ->only a subset, but it has additional calculated data
3) Connect to the witpstaff database with openoffice -> also only a subset, but with additional calculated data


Regards
Andy

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 162
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/4/2009 5:19:49 PM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morphin

Hi Damian
Thank's for the AC Production list. You TBO.YTA is not quite correct.:
For Example G4M1-L Betty: TBO.YTA you say 90

Yes, 90 G4M1-L Betty are arriving in 3 Groups, but there are also 3 groups that upgrade to G4M1-L Betty (2x L3Y2 Tina and 1x L3D2 Tabby)
and you also have to count ev. resizing of the groups:

So there are (potential) additional 72 Tina (2x27 resized to 36) and 18 Tabby that upgrades . So it is getting complicated
I speak with PDU off.

Andy


Well that is true, I only deal with TBO that is in incoming groups, not upgrades - otherwise it does get a little confusing ... I'll think about adding that later.

quote:

Xargun

Three possibilities:

1) Use the CSV-files in SCEN directory (if they doesn't exist for your scenario you can generate it with the witploadAE.exe in the same directory)
->That are the "raw"-Data like you see in the editor
2) Generate CSV-Files with the witpstaff utility ->only a subset, but it has additional calculated data
3) Connect to the witpstaff database with openoffice -> also only a subset, but with additional calculated data


4... You'll have to wait a week or two before I tell you ;)

--Damian--

(in reply to morphin)
Post #: 163
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/4/2009 5:47:01 PM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline 		Or
3.5 you can download a list here ... (I felt sorry for you guys) ...
download a list here


--Damian--

[edit]Not sure of data integrity as I'm still running tests ...

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 164
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/4/2009 6:38:05 PM   
Mynok


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Pity is not a virtue in a programmer....

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Post #: 165
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/4/2009 8:01:57 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline 		Many thanks for the spreadsheet, Damian. I will give it much use :)

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Post #: 166
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/7/2009 5:08:29 PM   
Local Yokel


Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
Status: offline 		What, no posts here since Tuesday?! Time to give this a nudge.

I've been playing around in a database with data dumped from scenario one, and produced a summary of Japanese aircraft production by factory location, which may be of some use. Treat with caution; I think it's accurate, please let me know of any errors. Here it is as a graphic:




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 167
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/7/2009 5:12:45 PM   
Local Yokel


Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
Status: offline 		...and here it is as a csv file (with .txt extension):

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 168
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/7/2009 5:20:12 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel

...and here it is as a csv file (with .txt extension):


many thanks!

I am working on the TBO for IJN planes right now and, if no one else works on that, will do the TBO for IJAAF planes afterwards. It is just that this week work has been a killer, and will continue to be so the whole weekend :)

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Post #: 169
RE: The Japanese Economy - 8/7/2009 6:15:19 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Nice Local Yokel, thanks!!!!

Still digesting where the needs are. For example, torpedo bombers. In WITP I would produce a fair amount. Now, the need is less. Why?

1. You get a grand total of 2 LBA units, 9 A/C between them, that are not stuck in the Home Islands. All other units are RESTRICTED, including a fat 36-plane Kate Unit.

2. The MABEL isn't bad, it's pretty comparable to the Kate actually, so that has to be figured in at-start units

You really only need replacements for the CVs now, until 1944 when you finally start getting larger LBA units

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Post #: 170
RE: The Japanese Economy - 10/13/2009 8:56:40 PM   
fabertong


Posts: 4546
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Bristol, England, U.K.
Status: offline 		Bumping for any newcomers..........or people with short memories like me.....now, what was I saying ?

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 171
RE: The Japanese Economy - 10/13/2009 9:00:43 PM   
Frandoxxx


Posts: 61
Joined: 12/22/2007
From: Denver, Colorado
Status: offline 		As a newbie Japanese player WITH a short memory thanks for the bump!

(in reply to fabertong)
Post #: 172
RE: The Japanese Economy - 10/14/2009 6:37:30 PM   
iley

 

Posts: 57
Joined: 11/28/2004
Status: offline 		Local Yokel:

Thank you most useful:

Iley

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Post #: 173
RE: The Japanese Economy - 10/14/2009 10:08:01 PM   
stldiver


Posts: 724
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: West Palm Beach, USA
Status: offline 		Might add, I'm newbie to Japan.

Need to ship supplies out of Japan to china, just had looming shortages cropping up. I'm in early Feb 42. It held good till then.

(in reply to iley)
Post #: 174
RE: The Japanese Economy - 10/18/2009 1:00:39 PM   
Swenslim

 

Posts: 437
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Odessa, Ukraine
Status: offline 		Shortage of supplies in China ?!!! How it is possible ? You have Canton, Hong Kong, Shanhai and hole Mancuko industry !

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Post #: 175
RE: The Japanese Economy - 10/18/2009 2:28:21 PM   
stldiver


Posts: 724
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: West Palm Beach, USA
Status: offline 		It takes a lot of supplies to round up the chinese and march them off to work camps, and retrain them to the belief in the Co-prosperity sphere!
They eat a lot!

(in reply to Swenslim)
Post #: 176
RE: The Japanese Economy - 10/22/2009 2:43:06 PM   
Hanzberger


Posts: 921
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: SE Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		BUMP Just hoping this thread continues. 

(in reply to stldiver)
Post #: 177
RE: The Japanese Economy - 10/22/2009 2:55:13 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Here are a couple follow-on observations, are you guys finding the same thing?

1. MIRI IS A PROBLEM CHILD: You can't really expand the port, but it takes alot of baby TKs to keep the fuel moving and not spoiling. So far I am lifting to Cam Ranh, but a better idea might be to expand Brunei, and set a 3-4 TK CS Convoy to move it that one hex the entire game. Haven't figured it out yet, but Miri is a problem. I suspect Palembang will be too, the port is larger, but fuel is going to accumulate FAST with that huge refinery.

2. HOKKAIDO IS TOO: So many resources, so few ports. That little base on the east coast, you have to really work to keep that empty. Same for Toyohara actually.

3. HOARDERS IN SHIMONSEKI: Do not ever unload resources at Shimonsek. I learned that the hard way; now I have several convoys from Shimonseki to Osaka, just to keep the 999,999 pile of resources there from spoiling. Why won't it move by rail? Irritating.

At any rate, it's certainly fun to figure all this out.

At Miri and Palembang, it might be a valid tactic to turn the refinery off at times, if Fuel is in danger of spoiling. Oil doesn't spoil. As it is, I am NOT repairing refineries, just Oil, and planning to move some Oil to Home Islands.

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Post #: 178
RE: The Japanese Economy - 10/22/2009 3:07:39 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Q-ball,

Thank you very much for your practical observations about the Japanese economy. I find these posts to be most helpful. Alas, I cannot offer much guidance in return as I have yet to get to the economic / resource exploitation phase in my IJ PBEM games.

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Post #: 179
RE: The Japanese Economy - 10/22/2009 3:08:54 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

3. HOARDERS IN SHIMONSEKI: Do not ever unload resources at Shimonsek. I learned that the hard way; now I have several convoys from Shimonseki to Osaka, just to keep the 999,999 pile of resources there from spoiling. Why won't it move by rail? Irritating.

Just out of curiosity, did you get any OPS report messages about spoilage or just realize that it wasn't moving by chance?


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Post #: 180
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