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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/29/2010 8:10:36 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub

They sure know how to build beautiful planes.


No, they know how to COPY them.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Grollub)
Post #: 24511
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/29/2010 8:11:38 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

RIP Dennis Hopper.


Darn...


Leo "Apollo11"


He'd been very very ill for a long time. When you're that sick, death is not necessarily a bad thing.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 24512
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/29/2010 8:17:31 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

Thanks Nik. Is there a source for that?


Vincent O'Hara The Struggle for the Middle Sea

_____________________________


(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 24513
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/29/2010 8:26:42 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

So what prevented them from throttling up, adjusting the oxygen mixture and diving for the deck, the poor dears?

.

The VF-2 escort from the Lexington strike were in a low cruising speed because the F4F's range was very short, one of it's weaknesses (prior to a proper drop tank being developed) and because they had to throttle back to not overtake the slower bombers, especially the TBD's. On reaching the scene of the crime, a couple elements of the strike were attacked by Zeros. From my research, maybe one Wildcat was shot down in the initial bounce/high speed pass. The others....obviously alerted, throttled up and the battle proceeded.

Its a bullshit argument argument of course. Planes don't fly around at full speed anyway all the time. Even in combat, planes will throttle up and down depending on what menuever/situation they find themselves in. One might as well say....."well the pilots were bounced so it wasn't a fair fight" Air combat is all about advantage and disadvantage. The last time this trick was pulled out, (after the manditory claims about Wildcats always winning) i asked our troll why he wasn't counting instances where Zeros were caught in disadvantagous positions. (such as the first one shot down.....just launched, at low alt and "Low power" and never seeing it's attacker. (ambushed from above and behind)

Naturally my querry and offer to participate in a LPP (Low Power Party) was ignored.

< Message edited by Nikademus -- 5/29/2010 8:27:50 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 24514
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/29/2010 8:59:16 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
The weeds aren't sniggering anymore.

When did Sukhoi become the main Russian plane manufacturer. Did Mikoyan just up and flop?


_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 24515
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/29/2010 9:05:08 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

When did Sukhoi become the main Russian plane manufacturer. Did Mikoyan just up and flop?


It is like that for many many years now... Sukhoi is state favourite...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 24516
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/29/2010 10:50:12 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Zsssssssssss time...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 24517
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/29/2010 11:15:32 PM   
Grollub


Posts: 6674
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Lulea, Sweden
Status: offline 		G'night gents

_____________________________

“Not mastering metaphores is like cooking pasta when the train is delayed"

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 24518
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 2:07:13 AM   
thegreatwent


Posts: 3011
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		Tithe

_____________________________


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Post #: 24519
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 2:30:30 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


The weeds aren't sniggering anymore.

When did Sukhoi become the main Russian plane manufacturer. Did Mikoyan just up and flop?


As an aside (something Onime would appreciate), I used to work with the great grandson of Gurevich. He was a veterinary surgeon in Marin County, CA. When I first met him, he was astonished that I asked if he was related to the Gurevich of the MiG fame.

Being a total dorkweed comes in handy some times...

_____________________________


(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 24520
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 9:04:03 AM   
Grollub


Posts: 6674
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Lulea, Sweden
Status: offline 		Good morning gents.

_____________________________

“Not mastering metaphores is like cooking pasta when the train is delayed"

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 24521
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 9:50:00 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Good morning!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Grollub)
Post #: 24522
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 1:03:30 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Good morning.

_____________________________


(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 24523
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 1:07:14 PM   
Dixie


Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		back from Devon tithe 

_____________________________



Bigger boys stole my sig

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 24524
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 2:11:45 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Good day!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Dixie)
Post #: 24525
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 2:15:18 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Pudding?

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 24526
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 2:23:51 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Pudding?


Chocolate pudding?




Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 24527
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 2:29:18 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Puddiiiing...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 24528
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 3:04:04 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Puddiiiing...


No chocolate then?

I also prefer vanilla pudding... it is so good when I make it (vanilla by Dr Oetker) and put homemade strawberry sweet sauce on it...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 24529
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 3:07:35 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Just to illustrate:



+





Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 24530
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 3:37:55 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline 		Morning tithe.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to comte)
Post #: 24531
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 3:38:30 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline 		A tipsy partygoer's head was impaled by a fence after he fell from a balcony at a Chelsea party early Saturday - and his family is overjoyed he survived.

Nicholas Blossom, 21, was causing a ruckus outside on the third-floor balcony on Sixth Ave. near W. 26th St. when the cops were called around 4 a.m., sources said.

As cops arrived, Blossom - of Williamsburg, Brooklyn - tripped and fell off the balcony, only to land a floor below with his head impaled by a fence on the platform, cops and family said.

Police had to use an electric saw to remove the piece of fence that had pierced Blossom's head, and surgeons removed the metal shaft soon later, family said.

"We were really concerned," said his mother, Emily Blossom, of Berkeley, Calif. "We're all just pulling for him."




_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 24532
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 3:39:13 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline 		So youre saying that they didnt drink much besides the gin?

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 24533
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 3:41:26 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub

They sure know how to build beautiful planes.


No, they know how to COPY them.


I wish people wouldnt post comments like this. Theyre neither true nor very smart.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 24534
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 3:41:52 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

Thanks Nik. Is there a source for that?


Vincent O'Hara The Struggle for the Middle Sea


Thank you Nik.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 24535
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 3:44:48 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

So what prevented them from throttling up, adjusting the oxygen mixture and diving for the deck, the poor dears?

.

The VF-2 escort from the Lexington strike were in a low cruising speed because the F4F's range was very short, one of it's weaknesses (prior to a proper drop tank being developed) and because they had to throttle back to not overtake the slower bombers, especially the TBD's. On reaching the scene of the crime, a couple elements of the strike were attacked by Zeros. From my research, maybe one Wildcat was shot down in the initial bounce/high speed pass. The others....obviously alerted, throttled up and the battle proceeded.

Its a bullshit argument argument of course. Planes don't fly around at full speed anyway all the time. Even in combat, planes will throttle up and down depending on what menuever/situation they find themselves in. One might as well say....."well the pilots were bounced so it wasn't a fair fight" Air combat is all about advantage and disadvantage. The last time this trick was pulled out, (after the manditory claims about Wildcats always winning) i asked our troll why he wasn't counting instances where Zeros were caught in disadvantagous positions. (such as the first one shot down.....just launched, at low alt and "Low power" and never seeing it's attacker. (ambushed from above and behind)

Naturally my querry and offer to participate in a LPP (Low Power Party) was ignored.


Thats pretty much what I thought. And then there was a separate conversation about p-40s vs Oscars IIRC.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 24536
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 3:49:16 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


The weeds aren't sniggering anymore.

When did Sukhoi become the main Russian plane manufacturer. Did Mikoyan just up and flop?


As an aside (something Onime would appreciate), I used to work with the great grandson of Gurevich. He was a veterinary surgeon in Marin County, CA. When I first met him, he was astonished that I asked if he was related to the Gurevich of the MiG fame.

Being a total dorkweed comes in handy some times...


The reason he was astonished is because neither Gurevich, nor in some parts of the country, Mikoyan, are very rare names.

But thats very cool. Did he have any stories?

One of my profs at college had met Kerenski for dinner once by virtue of working with his grandson. Evidently, the old guy was only too happy to talk to an excited history grad student.

Oh, and Lakers Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 24537
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 4:02:33 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub

They sure know how to build beautiful planes.


No, they know how to COPY them.


I wish people wouldnt post comments like this. Theyre neither true nor very smart.


And it's smarter to imply that the Sukhoi is not a carbon copy of the F-22? Please...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 24538
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 4:03:31 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

So youre saying that they didnt drink much besides the gin?


Correct. Gin was the scourge of the poor: dirt cheap, low-quality and extremely potent.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 24539
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/30/2010 4:35:44 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub

They sure know how to build beautiful planes.


No, they know how to COPY them.


I wish people wouldnt post comments like this. Theyre neither true nor very smart.


And it's smarter to imply that the Sukhoi is not a carbon copy of the F-22? Please...


I doubt that there are more than a handful of people in the world today with sufficient knowledge of both aircraft to make a statement of that nature in a meaningful way, and you are NOT one of those people. Past experience has shown unequivocally that previous aircraft which bear visual resemblance to western models are completely different machines in every meaningful way. If you want to accuse them of aesthetic unoriginality, I'd be perfectly fine with that, and if your statement means that the Sukhoi aircraft does bear a strong physical resemblance to the F-22, than yes you are correct. But if physical resemblance is your primary basis for saying that one aircraft is a "carbon copy" of another, I completely stand by my previous statement....and have fun looking at the pretty pictures.

< Message edited by Onime No Kyo -- 5/30/2010 4:36:19 PM >

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 24540
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