Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Morning men

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

The biggest issue I have in regards to this is that my understanding of the mechanical and design virtues of these birds is very limited. From what I know, however, the MiG-1 had a number of serious issues that did not endear it to pilots. There are various references to continued improvement of the model to be found in both memoirs and later historical works. That is about as candid as Soviet-era writers got on such a topics, but it is no less clear if due attention is paid to the subtext. The LaGG, however, seems to have been a much better airplane (better than the Hurri?).

Bigger boys stole my sig

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)

quote:

then someone else starts a new page...

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thegreatwent

quote:

The biggest issue I have in regards to this is that my understanding of the mechanical and design virtues of these birds is very limited. From what I know, however, the MiG-1 had a number of serious issues that did not endear it to pilots. There are various references to continued improvement of the model to be found in both memoirs and later historical works. That is about as candid as Soviet-era writers got on such a topics, but it is no less clear if due attention is paid to the subtext. The LaGG, however, seems to have been a much better airplane (better than the Hurri?).

I do have a book somewhere by Yefim Gordon that records a Soviet reaction to the Hurri as less than positive. Something along the lines of, a bad plane that won't dive or climb IIRC. That said I am sure most pilots would choose the Hurricane over the I-15, or the I-16 Rata. At least I would

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,


I think they said 60 - 100 meters...


Still very amazing (and scary) sight!



Leo "Apollo11"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Morning men

Amazing... for the n-th time I post the very last message on a page and then someone else starts a new page...


Leo "Apollo11"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

The biggest issue I have in regards to this is that my understanding of the mechanical and design virtues of these birds is very limited. From what I know, however, the MiG-1 had a number of serious issues that did not endear it to pilots. There are various references to continued improvement of the model to be found in both memoirs and later historical works. That is about as candid as Soviet-era writers got on such a topics, but it is no less clear if due attention is paid to the subtext. The LaGG, however, seems to have been a much better airplane (better than the Hurri?).

That would probably be about right, my knowledge of Soviet fighters isn't too great. British fighters ran on 100 octane fuel, which from memory was at best scarce in Russia. The fuel was also often dirty which added extra problems. The Vokes filters (tropical filters) fitted to lots of the L-L Hurricanes knocked a good 20mph off the speed as well.
British fighters were generally expected to be operating from well established bases with decent support, things that weren't always available in Russia. Like a lot of western equipment they weren't intended to cope with the extreme cold of the Russian winter. Russian aircraft were obviously designed with a more robust approach in mind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

then someone else starts a new page...

The bum

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Morning men

Amazing... for the n-th time I post the very last message on a page and then someone else starts a new page...

A constant problem for me. Let's protest!

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Oh my!!!


Giant sinkhole in Guatemala, Guatemala!

Looks like a shot from District 9 or something. How deep is that sucker?

I think they said 60 - 100 meters...


Still very amazing (and scary) sight!



Leo "Apollo11"

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

I can only think that those who have only ever bought computer wargamers aren't real wargamers otherwise they wouldn't baulk at £56 for a game. Real wargamers expect to pay a lot:


The Devil's Cauldron $190.00

Atlantic Navies:

Domestic Orders (USA, but not PA)
$137.50 (incl. 10% S&H)

Domestic Orders (PA only, incl. 6% sales tax)
$145.00 (incl. 10% S&H)

Canadian Orders
$150.00 (incl. 20% S&H)

Rest of the World
$162.50 (incl. 30% S&H)

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

I can only think that those who have only ever bought computer wargamers aren't real wargamers otherwise they wouldn't baulk at £56 for a game. Real wargamers expect to pay a lot:


The Devil's Cauldron $190.00

Atlantic Navies:

Domestic Orders (USA, but not PA)
$137.50 (incl. 10% S&H)

Domestic Orders (PA only, incl. 6% sales tax)
$145.00 (incl. 10% S&H)

Canadian Orders
$150.00 (incl. 20% S&H)

Rest of the World
$162.50 (incl. 30% S&H)

Bigger boys stole my sig

(in reply to sprior)

quote:

some sexy counters

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thegreatwent

quote:

The biggest issue I have in regards to this is that my understanding of the mechanical and design virtues of these birds is very limited. From what I know, however, the MiG-1 had a number of serious issues that did not endear it to pilots. There are various references to continued improvement of the model to be found in both memoirs and later historical works. That is about as candid as Soviet-era writers got on such a topics, but it is no less clear if due attention is paid to the subtext. The LaGG, however, seems to have been a much better airplane (better than the Hurri?).

I do have a book somewhere by Yefim Gordon that records a Soviet reaction to the Hurri as less than positive. Something along the lines of, a bad plane that won't dive or climb IIRC. That said I am sure most pilots would choose the Hurricane over the I-15, or the I-16 Rata. At least I would

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

The Russians were generally unimpressed with the initial Lend-Lease planes they received. (Hurricanes and Tomahawks). They were mainly compared unfavorably with the new Yak-1 which was considered superior to both planes. The LaGG-3 was a disapointment in service, being found to be an underperformer, especially at lower altitudes and a poor climber. The good news was that the design was eventually evolved into the much more effective La-5. MiG-3 was designed as a high altitude fighter but ended up doing it's primary fighting at lower altitudes and suffered as a result.

Part of the problem with the Hurricanes was that the specimens they received were not in the best shape and quickly degenerated further given the very low octane gas used by the Russians at the time. Many of their pilots were also used to the far more nimble (but slower) I-16 Ishak so the 'adjustment' period was difficult...the tactics required to be successful were very different. The whole "Better chances in an Ishak vs a Hurricane" actually originate from a New Zealand pilot flying restored I-16's in the 90's? who also flew Hurricanes. It was his opinion that British pilots might have fared better had they flown I-16's vs. Hurricanes. I take that comment with a grain of salt. In fairness...the I-16, while obsolecent could still be a formidable opponent. It was one of the most nimble monoplanes of the war and could turn on a dime. While vulnerable to catching fire from the flanks, it held the edge in head on attacks vs. the faster 109 (the latter with a vulnerable radiator)

Russians liked the Tomahawk best for their radios. (something Russian fighter pilots didn't have at the time) and it's turning attributes, but mirrored Commonwealth pilot comments about it's vertical disadvantages vs. the 109. The P-39 was the one great exception to the general negative reaction to LL aircraft. They loved the Airacobra.

Bigger boys stole my sig

(in reply to Nikademus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Pudding?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Oh my!!!


Giant sinkhole in Guatemala, Guatemala!

Looks like a shot from District 9 or something. How deep is that sucker?

I think they said 60 - 100 meters...


Still very amazing (and scary) sight!



Leo "Apollo11"

I'm waiting for the Balrog to come climbing out of there...

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Hurricane IID and IV were hardly outclassed in the front line...

Bigger boys stole my sig

(in reply to Terminus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

I can only think that those who have only ever bought computer wargamers aren't real wargamers otherwise they wouldn't baulk at £56 for a game. Real wargamers expect to pay a lot:


The Devil's Cauldron $190.00

Atlantic Navies:

Domestic Orders (USA, but not PA)
$137.50 (incl. 10% S&H)

Domestic Orders (PA only, incl. 6% sales tax)
$145.00 (incl. 10% S&H)

Canadian Orders
$150.00 (incl. 20% S&H)

Rest of the World
$162.50 (incl. 30% S&H)

I think the difference is that buying a real wargame for $75 then I'm going to get a shiny map and some sexy counters With a PC game I don't get that, there's no physical sense of owning it.