Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

It's a company sized game of Nijmegen and Arnhem, part 1 of a 2 game series to cover all of market Garden at that scale.

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub

For ZOD ...


( censored )

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub
For ZOD ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

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ORIGINAL: Nikademus

The Russians were generally unimpressed with the initial Lend-Lease planes they received. (Hurricanes and Tomahawks). They were mainly compared unfavorably with the new Yak-1 which was considered superior to both planes. The LaGG-3 was a disapointment in service, being found to be an underperformer, especially at lower altitudes and a poor climber. The good news was that the design was eventually evolved into the much more effective La-5. MiG-3 was designed as a high altitude fighter but ended up doing it's primary fighting at lower altitudes and suffered as a result.

Part of the problem with the Hurricanes was that the specimens they received were not in the best shape and quickly degenerated further given the very low octane gas used by the Russians at the time. Many of their pilots were also used to the far more nimble (but slower) I-16 Ishak so the 'adjustment' period was difficult...the tactics required to be successful were very different. The whole "Better chances in an Ishak vs a Hurricane" actually originate from a New Zealand pilot flying restored I-16's in the 90's? who also flew Hurricanes. It was his opinion that British pilots might have fared better had they flown I-16's vs. Hurricanes. I take that comment with a grain of salt. In fairness...the I-16, while obsolecent could still be a formidable opponent. It was one of the most nimble monoplanes of the war and could turn on a dime. While vulnerable to catching fire from the flanks, it held the edge in head on attacks vs. the faster 109 (the latter with a vulnerable radiator)

Russians liked the Tomahawk best for their radios. (something Russian fighter pilots didn't have at the time) and it's turning attributes, but mirrored Commonwealth pilot comments about it's vertical disadvantages vs. the 109. The P-39 was the one great exception to the general negative reaction to LL aircraft. They loved the Airacobra.

A lot of the first MkII Hurricanes the Russians got were rebuilt MkIs, so they were already well worn. Really by 1942 the Hurricane was outclassed in front line roles. We only sent Tomahawks because we didn't really want them either Some MkIIds were sent, which would have been a useful ground attack aircraft, but by the time they were received the SU were building plenty of IL-2s. The only British aircraft that the SU really wanted were Spitfires and by the time they got those they were obselescent MkVs that had already seen service in the Mid East. Most of the British LL was either used or unwanted by us, and truth be told probably by the SU as well.

The VVS weren't too keen on the P-47 either from memory.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub
It's not a blonde, but they're using the chocolate well here ... yummy ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


It seems to me that the Aircobra's ruggedness was the factor that kept it in the front lines long after the Hurris were shuffled off to relatively stable and quiet areas.

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ORIGINAL: thegreatwent

Good to know. The more I learn about the Eastern Front the more foreign it feels. While Glantz and others are doing great research one always has the sense that there is more. Once you grasp one part, Stalingrad for instance, you then discover that Operation Mars was occurring at the same time. The scale is incredible, Stalingrad was huge and yet only a part of the whole. One's mind retreats and then settles on the air war.

Planes. I know something about the air war so this should be more accessible. But wait the rules are different here as well. While the map is still huge, range is less a factor. Yes the factories had moved out of range for the Germans, but the air war was fought at close range. Some pilots flying five or more sorties a day. Ground support plays a much greater factor in arrangement of commands, aircraft operating as a form of artillery. In essence adding a limited vertical component to the battlefield. While ground support missions were part of the Pacific and Western Theatres the US and UK air commands operated virtually autonomously compared to their Soviet counterparts.

Now pack this confusing mess under years of cold war politics and cultural differences and serve. No wonder one has the urge to simplify what occurred in the East, it is easier to grasp that way. It is interesting as well.

When I started playing WitP I would have said I knew a great deal about the Pacific. I had family that had served there, read books about Midway and Guadacanal. Even played simulations of Coral Sea and watched films and documentaries. Well now I know different and will confidently say I know a little bit about the PTO.

With War in the East coming soon, I'll say that I know little about that theater and hope to someday know a bit more. I will probably get as much enjoyment from researching the time period as playing the game, the game providing focus for an otherwise intimidatingly broad subject

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ORIGINAL: JWE

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ORIGINAL: Nikademus

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ORIGINAL: thegreatwent
Still why the difference between the P-40 and P-39? They both used Allison V-1710 engines and performed well at low altitudes, the P-39 going on to be a great race plane. Was the cannon armament that much of a deal maker or were there other criteria?

The Soviets considered the P-39 to be superior in the vertical axis in particular and best suited to their new Eagle Strike tactics and Bookshelf formations. The armament, including the cannon was considered more than sufficient to blast German targets at close range. They dealt with the Airacobra's "vices" with typical Russian stoicism. They kept flying it right through to the end of the war.

Reminds me of that joke Army people used to tell: Two Sov tank generals sitting in a cafe in Paris, sucking down vodka, and one says, "By the way Pavel Dimitrovich, who won the air war?"

What airplanes do, and how their specs are evaluated, is based on just who is doing the evaluating. The US AirFarce sits in the stratosphere and makes pronunciamento about ground support (about which they know nothing), while the poor dumb ba$tards on the ground are exposed and rant about lack of air support because of air superiority priorities (about which they, too, know nothing).

Most plane evals, on the Internet, are done by the US, where all the test pilots are AirFarce strato/hotrods so if it aint knockers up, it sucks. Specs are specs, but they have to be applied appropriate to the mission (something the AirFarce can't quite get through it's egotistical, pointed, and very small, head). I much prefer the Sov evaluations of planes. They knew the difference and maximized it.

I also appreciate that the game stuff was done by Elf, who is a Navy puke, who understands this stuff.

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ORIGINAL: Grollub

For ZOD ...

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ORIGINAL: USS America

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub

For ZOD ...


( censored )

Ask, and ye shall receive.

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ORIGINAL: Grollub

It's not a blonde, but they're using the chocolate well here ... yummy ...

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ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub
It's not a blonde, but they're using the chocolate well here ... yummy ...

woof!, woof!!, oh seriously woof!, woof!!. I would be looking for some serious diabetic support after a time with that sweetie, but, hey ... I'm like good with checking out after a month with that darlin, but by golly whillikers, licking all that chocko off!! .. There is a special place in heaven (or hell) that is reserved for people who get to do that.

Per, you are a very interesting man.

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ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


It seems to me that the Aircobra's ruggedness was the factor that kept it in the front lines long after the Hurris were shuffled off to relatively stable and quiet areas.

Not according to Loma.

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ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub

For ZOD ...

Per!!!!!!!!!!

Dear Thread, man! Are you suddenly channeling Pasternakski?

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ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub

It's not a blonde, but they're using the chocolate well here ... yummy ...

Perhaps, but is she Swedish?

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ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
But imagine how bored she'd be by the time youre done.

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ORIGINAL: JWE

Reminds me of that joke Army people used to tell: Two Sov tank generals sitting in a cafe in Paris, sucking down vodka, and one says, "By the way Pavel Dimitrovich, who won the air war?"

What airplanes do, and how their specs are evaluated, is based on just who is doing the evaluating. The US AirFarce sits in the stratosphere and makes pronunciamento about ground support (about which they know nothing), while the poor dumb ba$tards on the ground are exposed and rant about lack of air support because of air superiority priorities (about which they, too, know nothing).

Most plane evals, on the Internet, are done by the US, where all the test pilots are AirFarce strato/hotrods so if it aint knockers up, it sucks. Specs are specs, but they have to be applied appropriate to the mission (something the AirFarce can't quite get through it's egotistical, pointed, and very small, head). I much prefer the Sov evaluations of planes. They knew the difference and maximized it.

I also appreciate that the game stuff was done by Elf, who is a Navy puke, who understands this stuff.

Bigger boys stole my sig

(in reply to JWE)