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Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 4:36:47 AM   
Cmdrcain


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From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
Status: offline 		I notice Clark AFB is on coast, has a PORT and somehow that doesn't make sense...

An Error?



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RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 4:40:17 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain

I notice Clark AFB is on coast, has a PORT and somehow that doesn't make sense...

An Error?




No it isn't an error. Clark Field is indeed located in that hex (although right up near the Eastern edge of the hex).

Andrew

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Post #: 2
RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 5:41:37 AM   
Cmdrcain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain

I notice Clark AFB is on coast, has a PORT and somehow that doesn't make sense...

An Error?






But it has a PORT...

I Don't recall Clark AFB ever having a port...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Air_Base


Sure it was in a province that had a coast, but Clark was away from coast, inland, no port and I know of no port near to it... do you?

http://www.whoa.org/publications/maps/cabmap47.jpg 1947 map

http://www.whoa.org/publications/maps/cabairmap.jpg Aerial map

http://www.whoa.org/publications/maps/cabairmap77lr.jpg High Res

http://www.whoa.org/publications/maps/cabairmap77.jpg 2mb High res




Putting it on coast with a Port (2) is un-historic...



No it isn't an error. Clark Field is indeed located in that hex (although right up near the Eastern edge of the hex).

Andrew



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RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 5:58:09 AM   
Andrew Brown


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From: Hex 82,170
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain
But it has a PORT...

I Don't recall Clark AFB ever having a port...


Keep in mind that hexes in AE are 40 nautical miles across. The hex that contains Clark Field, which is an airfield, also contains Subic Bay (in the Southwestern part of the hex), which is a port.

Andrew

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Post #: 4
RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 6:00:46 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Status: offline 		I've noticed some Luzon differences, too.  Baguio appeared in WitP but doesn't seem to be in AE.  I think there's another port hex present on Luzon's NE coast in WitP that didn't make it into AE.  I'm not questioning these, because I know the team had reasons for doing things like this.  But I always liked having Baguio because that's where the Jap defenders of Luzon finally surrendered in 1945.

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RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 6:00:57 AM   
JWE

 

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Status: offline 		The hex is a 40 mile area. If you look, you will see Subic Bay at the SW edge of it. The hex also includes the towns of Subic, Longapo, San Antonio. The hex most certainly has a port. The hex is called Clark field for convenience, because that is the most interesting object in the hex..

What I get for being so darn slow, Andrew beat me to it.

< Message edited by JWE -- 7/28/2009 6:03:40 AM >

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RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 6:01:48 AM   
TheElf


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From: Pax River, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

The hex is a 40 mile area. If you look, you will see Subic Bay at the SW edge of it. The hex also includes the towns of Subic, Longapo, San Antonio. The hex most certainly has a port. The hex is called Clark field for convenience, because that is the most interesting object in the hex..




quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain
But it has a PORT...

I Don't recall Clark AFB ever having a port...


Keep in mind that hexes in AE are 40 nautical miles across. The hex that contains Clark Field, which is an airfield, also contains Subic Bay (in the Southwestern part of the hex), which is a port.

Andrew



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RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 6:03:56 AM   
Jim D Burns


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown
Keep in mind that hexes in AE are 40 nautical miles across. The hex that contains Clark Field, which is an airfield, also contains Subic Bay (in the Southwestern part of the hex), which is a port.


Yeah, but by incorporating Clark into a costal hex now, Japanese battleships will bombard the daylights out of the airfield with impunity, this is probably not a good idea. A little tweaking may have been called for to move it into an inland hex instead for playabilities sake.

Jim


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RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 6:04:44 AM   
Cmdrcain


Posts: 1161
Joined: 8/21/2000
From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain
But it has a PORT...

I Don't recall Clark AFB ever having a port...


Keep in mind that hexes in AE are 40 nautical miles across. The hex that contains Clark Field, which is an airfield, also contains Subic Bay (in the Southwestern part of the hex), which is a port.

Andrew



Ok, granted, Perhaps if an update is done... It should be renamed Clark AFB/Subic
as Just Clark AFB wouldn't have a port..

Too bad you couldn't have put Subic on map and right up from it Clark with no port..






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RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 6:08:50 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I've noticed some Luzon differences, too.  Baguio appeared in WitP but doesn't seem to be in AE.  I think there's another port hex present on Luzon's NE coast in WitP that didn't make it into AE.  I'm not questioning these, because I know the team had reasons for doing things like this.  But I always liked having Baguio because that's where the Jap defenders of Luzon finally surrendered in 1945.


Actually Baguio wasn't in stock WitP. "El Cid" first added it to his RHS mod, then on his suggestion I did the same for CHS.

I didn't forget about Baguio, but it turned out, for the AE map, that it was in the coastal hex 80,74 (on the road that adjoins this hex to 81,74). However as a consolation you get the Bayombong base in hex 80,75.

Andrew

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Post #: 10
RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 6:10:00 AM   
Cmdrcain


Posts: 1161
Joined: 8/21/2000
From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
Status: offline 		Humm actually Subic isn't in same Provience as Clark AFB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zambales

Clark is in Pampanga

Subic in Zambales..

But a Subic Port with Clark up and to the NE of Subic would fit..






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RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 6:12:23 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain
Too bad you couldn't have put Subic on map and right up from it Clark with no port..


Actually, during the development of AE, there were earlier map versions that had Clark Field in hex 80,76, but it was eventually decided that it was more realistic to have in in its current hex (and when I rechecked the AE map vs real maps, I did confirm that Clark is just inside the hex border of 79,76).

As a rule I don't like using double names for bases, but I do use them in a very few places.

Andrew

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Post #: 12
RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 6:24:34 AM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
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From: Hex 82,170
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
Yeah, but by incorporating Clark into a costal hex now, Japanese battleships will bombard the daylights out of the airfield with impunity, this is probably not a good idea. A little tweaking may have been called for to move it into an inland hex instead for playabilities sake.

Jim



If you look at the map (use the F6 key), you will see that Japanese TFs trying that have to go through the Bataan hex (and its CD defences) to do that. It wouldn't be pretty.

Yes - I know that in reality you don't have to physically sail past Corregidor Island to get to Subic, but this part of the map is one area where the compromises of the hex grid show themselves. There is no perfect representation of these areas using a 40 mile grid. What matters is whether the gameplay is OK, and we believe it is. If it turns out not to be the case then it can be re-examined, of course, as can any part of the map.

Andrew

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Post #: 13
RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 10:27:02 AM   
Blackhorse


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From: Eastern US
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown
Keep in mind that hexes in AE are 40 nautical miles across. The hex that contains Clark Field, which is an airfield, also contains Subic Bay (in the Southwestern part of the hex), which is a port.


Yeah, but by incorporating Clark into a costal hex now, Japanese battleships will bombard the daylights out of the airfield with impunity, this is probably not a good idea. A little tweaking may have been called for to move it into an inland hex instead for playabilities sake.

Jim



Jim,

IRL, Clark Field sat astride the line-of-march from Lingayen towards both Bataan and Manila. By 'tweaking' the map and moving Clark inland, forces landing at Iba or Lingayen could unhistorically reach Bataan before the defenders at Clark. This is one of the shortcomings of stock, IMHO.

Leaving Clark on the 'coast' but forcing TFs sailing to Clark (Subic) to steam past the Coastal Defenses to get there was an elegant compromise.


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Post #: 14
RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 12:38:43 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown
Keep in mind that hexes in AE are 40 nautical miles across. The hex that contains Clark Field, which is an airfield, also contains Subic Bay (in the Southwestern part of the hex), which is a port.


Yeah, but by incorporating Clark into a costal hex now, Japanese battleships will bombard the daylights out of the airfield with impunity, this is probably not a good idea. A little tweaking may have been called for to move it into an inland hex instead for playabilities sake.

Jim







Impunity?.....Well, they will be taking the fire of anything within that 40 mile hex..


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RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 12:42:05 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		I suppose that's a sort of impunity...

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RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 2:29:05 PM   
whippleofd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

The hex is a 40 mile area. If you look, you will see Subic Bay at the SW edge of it. The hex also includes the towns of Subic, Longapo, San Antonio. The hex most certainly has a port. The hex is called Clark field for convenience, because that is the most interesting object in the hex..

What I get for being so darn slow, Andrew beat me to it.


Anyone who's been to the PI can tell you that the most "interesting" things in this area are the San Miguel beer, the city of Longapo and the LBFM's contained within said city.

Ah...memories of "The Sharks Cove" about 300 yards on the left outside the gate to Subic.

Whipple

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Post #: 17
RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 3:04:27 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whipple
Anyone who's been to the PI can tell you that the most "interesting" things in this area are the San Miguel beer, the city of Longapo and the LBFM's contained within said city.

Ah...memories of "The Sharks Cove" about 300 yards on the left outside the gate to Subic.

Whipple

Yeah, gotta say it was one of the better I & I spots.

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RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 3:43:15 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		One thing I noticed in the PI is that the Allied player now has a tougher decision to make on where to make the last stand.

Manila is where all the points are, not to mention a light urban hex. BUT, there are no longer any CD guns!

Those are all at Bataan. But there are no points at Bataan.

That means you can either a) sit on a hex where the Japanese player has to kill you if he is going for Auto-Victory, but you are exposed to ship bombardment, or b) move to a hex that is impervious to ship bombardment, and blocks Manila harbor, but not worth much in points; the Japanese player could just bottle you up and let you starve.

Interesting Choices.



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RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 3:45:59 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

one of the better I & I spots


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RE: Clark AFB - 7/28/2009 6:21:30 PM   
m10bob


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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

one of the better I & I spots


I & I = Intoxication & Intercourse

For those who may not know what it means.





R&R in the army..(Rape and ruin).

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