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Early Strategy - 7/29/2009 8:26:00 PM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline 		In WitP my early strategy as the Allies (eventually) boiled down to this:

1) Build a string of bases from PH to Oz to secure supply convoys

2) Bug out of Burma because whatever is there will just be steamrolled in 1 or 2 days.

3) Withdraw Base Forces from DEI and move them to OZ because few Australians are willing to maintain AC.

4) Consolodate remaining strength in DEI @ Soerabaja because it's a malaria oasis.

5) Stay indoors in the Great White North until spring. It's just too cold to be building runways.

6) Ignore China.

I'm hopeful that 2, 3 & 4 will no longer pay off so well.


Any tips on old habits that can now be cast aside?

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/29/2009 8:27:31 PM   
USSAmerica


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Status: offline 		It sounds like it is now very unwise to run supply convoys anywhere on the map without escorts. 

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/29/2009 8:27:31 PM   
Mike Solli


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RE: Early Strategy - 7/29/2009 8:36:49 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Status: offline 		2 3 and 4 are all valid if a tad unwise in AE

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/29/2009 8:37:20 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Status: offline 		Although 3 will be bloody difficult to find any you can move

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/29/2009 8:57:52 PM   
Mynok


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Dutch base forces aren't fixed? I thought T said they wouldn't move out now, so no Sir Robin anymore.

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/29/2009 8:59:29 PM   
mjk428

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

2 3 and 4 are all valid if a tad unwise in AE



Very good.

Thank You.

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/29/2009 9:22:51 PM   
USSAmerica


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Dutch base forces aren't fixed? I thought T said they wouldn't move out now, so no Sir Robin anymore.






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RE: Early Strategy - 7/29/2009 9:35:36 PM   
88l71


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Status: offline 		I noticed though in the PI you *can* re-assign the B-17's and move them out.

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/29/2009 10:41:28 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Dutch base forces aren't fixed? I thought T said they wouldn't move out now, so no Sir Robin anymore.






damn! Your whole strategy is messed up, Mike!
Maybe hot girls in stockings may befuddle the Japs?

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 2:33:26 AM   
USSAmerica


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Status: offline 		Torsten, I think I struck a nerve with the whole "teasing" thing. 

It's particularly funny to see Mynok whine about Sir Robin tactics, since he is my PBEM opponent. 

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 2:36:25 AM   
Mynok


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Whining is too strong really....mild eye rolling is better.... All it does is delay the confrontation.

From my limited exposure to AE so far, it's going to be far less strategically sound to use Sir Robin in AE. IJ losses are going to be much more painful than they were in Witp, where losing transports is a non-factor. Now, the Allies' best strategy is going to be hurt them as much as possible because their losses will be replaced and the Japs will not.


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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 2:38:45 AM   
AttuWatcher

 

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Status: offline 		Has anyone managed to "Sir Robin" the entire Pacific yet? 

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 2:39:50 AM   
Mynok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Dutch base forces aren't fixed? I thought T said they wouldn't move out now, so no Sir Robin anymore.






damn! Your whole strategy is messed up, Mike!
Maybe hot girls in stockings may befuddle the Japs?


Not me....or which Mike were you talking to?

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 2:44:30 AM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
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From: Graham, NC, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Whining is too strong really....mild eye rolling is better.... All it does is delay the confrontation.

From my limited exposure to AE so far, it's going to be far less strategically sound to use Sir Robin in AE. IJ losses are going to be much more painful than they were in Witp, where losing transports is a non-factor. Now, the Allies' best strategy is going to be hurt them as much as possible because their losses will be replaced and the Japs will not.



I agree. The early Allied game will become "hunt the transports" while hiding from the combat ships.

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 2:44:57 AM   
USSAmerica


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FAsea

Has anyone managed to "Sir Robin" the entire Pacific yet? 


No, but I'm working on it in my CHS game with Mynok.

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 3:04:56 AM   
BrucePowers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Whining is too strong really....mild eye rolling is better.... All it does is delay the confrontation.

From my limited exposure to AE so far, it's going to be far less strategically sound to use Sir Robin in AE. IJ losses are going to be much more painful than they were in Witp, where losing transports is a non-factor. Now, the Allies' best strategy is going to be hurt them as much as possible because their losses will be replaced and the Japs will not.



Well if it is too out of whack we can always use the editor.

In Costello's War in the Pacific, he did mention the Japanese started out 1943 with more tanker tonnage than they had in Dec 1941. This was in reference to the horrible USN torpedoes, but it does illustrate merchant ship production was under way.

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 11:25:41 AM   
EUBanana


Posts: 4552
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Status: offline 		So far against the AI the Japanese are being murderised on air and sea around the Philippines.  British and American PT boats raid daily, you can walk from the PI to Formosa on the back of submarine hulls, and P-40s rip Miss Betty into little pieces whenever she shows her face.  Houston and Boise spank any who fool around in the south, and a 20,000 supply point convoy from Soerabaja is now two hexes from Manila.  The ground campaign goes well for the Japanese and I guess thats the main thing, but he is suffering for it.

I really wouldn't Sir Robin the PI based on this...    The P-40 is a pretty acceptable fighter even in 1941 in AE.  I get 1:2 against versus Zeroes, but against bombers they are lethal.  Also it seems harder to eliminate them, sweeps aren't as bloody as they once were.   I would say that absolute crushing air superiority over the Philippines from day 1 for the Japanese is no longer necessarily on the cards.

I think one major change is the lack of availability of fast transports.  Basically the Allies can't do it anymore, they have a handful of ships capable of it.  No more using cruisers to drop appreciable supply.  I think this has quite a major impact not yet discussed.  For example, Port Blair, without fast transports as an option, is now completely indefensible IMO.  I would keep it garrisoned in WITP and supply it with expendable RN old cruisers like the Ceres class - dangerous runs, to be sure, but acceptable in my mind to keep Port Blair in beans and bullets.  In AE this is simply no longer possible, you'll need to use AKs, and they will be blown away.

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 12:18:52 PM   
John Lansford

 

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Status: offline 		I've been evaccing transports southward to Java and Balikpapan, and from there down to Darwin loaded with fuel and supplies from the earlier ports.  The AI is very aggressive in hunting these unescorted TF's; I had Ise, a CA and two DD's pounce on a 3 AK TF off of Borneo last night.  I've got a transport TF headed for Cebu to pick up a non-restricted LCU but don't think I can get a TF up to Manila to evac anyone from there now.  The AI has Bettys flying all over the northern Philippines even though my fighters are carving them up, and my subs are getting hits (most don't explode though).  What few surface ships in the area have intercepted several TF's already as well.

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 12:45:45 PM   
EUBanana


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From: Little England
Status: offline 		The other thing I do on turn 2 is load up all the transports at Batavia and have them do a supply run to Singapore.  They do get bombed a bit usually but losses are light, and I get 20k + supply into Singapore which I think is probably invaluable in the Malayan campaign.  In my latest game, in fact, I'm making multiple runs.

And likewise at Soerabaja, send a convoy of xAKLs to Manila.  Again I think you'll get losses, but again I think it's likely you'll get 20k of supply in and hopefully extend the siege.

...not having got to the siege part yet this is something of an assumption!  But I assume 20k supply will have an impact.  Java seems to have plenty to spare in the medium term.

Also I load up the transports at Mombasa and Cape Town to resupply Java, not sure how long that'll take or how feasible it is.  I can't see it being easy to attack Java without taking Singapore first in AE, though.  The airfields like Kuching are all too small for real air power projection over Java.


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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 2:38:22 PM   
henri51


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

1) Build a string of bases from PH to Oz to secure supply convoys


What is Oz?

And whaddahell is Sir Robin? Geez this game has more acronyms than the real military...

Henri

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 2:41:01 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Oz = Australia

Sir Robin = Allied strategy where you run away with as much as you can as fast as you can.  (Check out Sir Robin in Monty Python.)

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 2:42:14 PM   
EUBanana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: henri51
What is Oz?


Australia.

quote:


And whaddahell is Sir Robin? Geez this game has more acronyms than the real military...


It's a strategy, from Monty Python. "Brave Sir Robin ran away".

Where the Allies don't bother defending the DEI, but instead leg it for Australia rather than fight.


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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 2:43:53 PM   
HMS Resolution


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Status: offline 		I too have had a lot of luck off the PI; most recently a trio of Filipino PT boats managed to ambush a Japanese supply convoy at anchor and sank two big 7,000 ton 17-knot APs. It'll be interesting to see how long I can keep this up, or what effect it will have on the Japanese long-term.

Also, when the KB lingered off Pearl for three days, my PT boats managed to intercept their AOs, put a pair of fish into one, and set two more on fire! Great days, I tell you.

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 3:15:51 PM   
EUBanana


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From: Little England
Status: offline 		I notice a lot of the ABDA LCUs are mobile now, so you could do some major redeployment in the DEI if you so chose.  Java units are not restricted to the Java landmass anymore.

I wonder if much could be made of that.

You could actually reinforce Singapore, possibly, at the expense of Dutch holdings. 

There are also quite significant ABDA command units coming in on the British end of the off map areas, thus far I've diverted them to India but there are a couple hundred AV worth of those which might do some good deployed to the DEI.


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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 3:36:37 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

You could actually reinforce Singapore, possibly, at the expense of Dutch holdings. 



They'll just starve faster.

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 3:49:12 PM   
EUBanana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
They'll just starve faster.


Probably.

You dont have to put them in Singers, though.

That said I think Singapore is the only real important place to defend aside from Palembang and Java now. Borneo looks dead to me. Kuching is next to useless without significant improvement.

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 3:50:35 PM   
Graymane


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Status: offline 		I would put up a fight in the PI, DEI and Malaya. With the leaky CAP rules and the improved surface combat model and the new rules for loading/unloading and transports, it is worth making the Japanese fight for every inch. Unescorted bombers and transports are great targets early on.

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 3:58:49 PM   
EUBanana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Graymane

I would put up a fight in the PI, DEI and Malaya. With the leaky CAP rules and the improved surface combat model and the new rules for loading/unloading and transports, it is worth making the Japanese fight for every inch. Unescorted bombers and transports are great targets early on.


What about the ABDACOM reinforcements in Aden? Would you move those into the DEI?

Usually you are pulling stuff out of the DEI, I've never had to make the decision of whether to move ABDA units into the DEI before.

Theres an Indian regiment among them, AV 120 odd. So it's not total junk. Theres about 2/3rds of a division in total I suppose if you add up all the little bits.

Java or not bother and keep them in India, is the question...

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RE: Early Strategy - 7/30/2009 4:17:05 PM   
HMS Resolution


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Status: offline 		I'm planning on trying to make my real stand in Burma. Historically, the British at least put up a decent show there, and maybe with some reinforcements wasted on Singers and a few more Hurricanes, I can try and hold out.

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