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- 6/12/2002 8:55:41 PM   
Rich Dionne

 

Posts: 436
Joined: 7/11/2000
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by worr
[B]

Rich any ideas about the 475th FG--Satan's Angels? Activated May 15th 1943...they were the tip of the spear for clearing out New Guinea. They remained an all P38 group....and were the most successful fighter group in the SWPAC.

Their first base of combat operation was PM....and first targets were Lae. Squadrons were 431st 432nd 433rd.

Worr, out [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks Worr, yes, flew their first combat mission on 12 Aug 43 out of PM. I don't know how that was missed, but I'll remedy the situation.

Regards,

Rich

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 31
- 6/14/2002 2:45:53 AM   
Didz


Posts: 728
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: UK
Status: offline 		Just a quick question.

Having just copied the Upgrade list to my PC and checked through it I couldn't help noticing that the P39-D Airacobra has multiple replacement planes.

101) P-39D > P38G Lightning
142) P-39D > P40E Kittyhawk

Is this a typo or fact and if so how does it work in practice?

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Didz
Fortis balore et armis

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Post #: 32
- 6/14/2002 2:50:43 AM   
Spooky


Posts: 816
Joined: 4/1/2002
From: Froggy Land
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Didz
[B]Just a quick question.

Having just copied the Upgrade list to my PC and checked through it I couldn't help noticing that the P39-D Airacobra has multiple replacement planes.

101) P-39D > P38G Lightning
142) P-39D > P40E Kittyhawk

Is this a typo or fact and if so how does it work in practice? [/B][/QUOTE]

Seems to be the following reason :

101 : US Squadrons P-39D
142 : RAAF Squadrons P-39D

Too bad for the aussies :D The P-38G rocks !!!!

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 33
- 6/14/2002 3:09:37 AM   
Didz


Posts: 728
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Spooky
[B]

Seems to be the following reason :

101 : US Squadrons P-39D
142 : RAAF Squadrons P-39D

Too bad for the aussies :D The P-38G rocks !!!! [/B][/QUOTE]

OH! Right. I hadn't thought of that.

Hmm! I wonder what happens if you put an Aussie squadron in Noumea and leave it there.

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Fortis balore et armis

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Post #: 34
- 6/14/2002 6:00:38 AM   
Supervisor

 

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Hmm! I wonder what happens if you put an Aussie squadron in Noumea and leave it there.[/QUOTE]
Disgruntled Aussies still flying P-39D's? :D :D :D

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Post #: 35
- 6/14/2002 6:44:01 AM   
Didz


Posts: 728
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: UK
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rowlf
[B]
Disgruntled Aussies still flying P-39D's? :D :D :D [/B][/QUOTE]

You've obviously tried it then;)

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Didz
Fortis balore et armis

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 36
Another minor update problem......... - 6/14/2002 12:44:29 PM   
Reg


Posts: 2787
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: NSW, Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rowlf
[B]
Disgruntled Aussies still flying P-39D's? :D :D :D [/B][/QUOTE]That sounds about right, the RAAF only ever had 22 P-39 aircraft on strength and didn't like them so they sent 'em back for a refund. :) :)

Seriously though, P-39s never equipped a full squadron. They were brought on charge between Jul'42 and Jul'43 and were all returned to the 5th Air Force between Mar'43 and Oct'43.

Nos. 23 and 24 Squadron each operated six P-39D aircraft alongside 18 Wirraways (plus three Buffalos in 23 Sqn's case) for coastal patrol/home defence duties.

Both squadrons re-equipped with Vultee Vengeances from May/Jun'43.

The Vengeances were deployed to New Guinea for a short time in late'43 before being withdrawn and the squadrons eventually being re-equipped again with B-24J/M in late'44/early'45.

Putting No. 23 Squadron in Brisbane with P-39D is a valid simplification for game purposes and the P-40 is the most logical choice of RAAF upgrade aircraft in the current database. (No. 24 Squadron was based in Sydney).

However, I think the omission of Vengeances when the RAAF had four squadrons equipped with the type is a bit of an oversight. I am aware the type had little influence on the New Guinea campaigns but 342 aircraft were ordered (nearly all were received) and three squadrons did serve in the theatre (Nos 21, 23 & 24). They were only withdrawn because of a shortage of airfield space (needed for more modern types) and could have easily had a greater impact during the latter stages of the period covered by UV.

No. 21 was reduced to a cadre after being virtually annihalated flying Buffalos in the Malaya campaign. It was reformed with Vengeances in Sep'43 and was deployed to Nadzab for a short period in early '44 and later received the B-24J/M. No. 25 Squadron was the fourth squadron but spent most of it's war in home defence of Perth. It's upgrade path was a Wirraway/Buffalo mix -> Vengeance -> B-24J/M in the same time frame as the other squadrons.

Cheers,
Reg.

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 37
- 6/14/2002 5:52:07 PM   
Reg


Posts: 2787
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: NSW, Australia
Status: offline 		I've done a bit more digging and P-39s have turned up all over the place in addition to the ones in the previous post.

Feb'43. No. 83 Squadron was formed with six P-39D aircraft but were later replaced with Boomerangs.

Jun'43. No. 82 Squadron was formed with P-40E but due to aircraft shortages, one flight consisted temporarily of P-39s.

Those 22 Aircobras really got around!!! However, it appears that they were being used as a stop gap as no-one held onto them for very long and they were never considered for active service.

Cheers,
Reg.

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 38
- 6/14/2002 7:04:10 PM   
Didz


Posts: 728
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: UK
Status: offline 		I'm curious.

How does the program decide which squadron to upgrade?

The reason I ask is that I withdrew the 40th FS flying P-39D's to Brisbane in the hope that it would get upgraded to P38G's.

When it didn't I thought perhaps I needed to put it in Noumea seeing as it was a US squadron so I was in the process of getting Long Island over the Brisbane to pick it up when I noticed that one of the squadrons in the CAP at Port Moresby were flying P38G's.

I checked and sure enough while my back was turned the 35th FS at Port Moresby had managed to filch all the upgrade aircraft. They obviously have Radar on their team to pull a few strings.

Any idea what logic the program uses?

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Didz
Fortis balore et armis

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 39
- 6/14/2002 7:09:33 PM   
Supervisor

 

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Didz
[B]I'm curious.

How does the program decide which squadron to upgrade?

The reason I ask is that I withdrew the 40th FS flying P-39D's to Brisbane in the hope that it would get upgraded to P38G's.

When it didn't I thought perhaps I needed to put it in Noumea seeing as it was a US squadron so I was in the process of getting Long Island over the Brisbane to pick it up when I noticed that one of the squadrons in the CAP at Port Moresby were flying P38G's.

I checked and sure enough while my back was turned the 35th FS at Port Moresby had managed to filch all the upgrade aircraft. They obviously have Radar on their team to pull a few strings.

Any idea what logic the program uses? [/B][/QUOTE]
Maybe those closest to combat have priority? Just a guess.

«End of serious answer»

Coin toss in Brisbane with the referees? :D

Better bureaucratic infighting skills on the part of the 35th's commander? :D

Better supply sergeant? :D

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Post #: 40
Wirraway upgrade path - 6/15/2002 4:59:56 AM   
jcjordan

 

Posts: 1900
Joined: 6/27/2001
Status: offline 		Shouldn't the Wirraway's upgrade to P40 Kitthawks before going to Boomerangs? Also is there a list of when the replacement start for each A/C?

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 41
Replacement Dates... - 6/15/2002 7:29:10 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		For the moment, you can check your air reinforcements list. For many of the replacement types, there are similarly equipped squadrons arriving right around the time the replacements start. While there are exceptions, this is a good rule of thumb for estimating (within about two weeks) when you will start seeing that type of plane appearing in significant numbers.

Regards,

- Erik

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(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 42
Re: Wirraway upgrade path - 6/15/2002 8:17:26 AM   
Reg


Posts: 2787
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: NSW, Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by jcjordan
[B]Shouldn't the Wirraway's upgrade to P40 Kitthawks before going to Boomerangs? Also is there a list of when the replacement start for each A/C? [/B][/QUOTE]

No RAAF squadrons relinquished their Kittyhawks for Boomerangs though several squadrons (Nos. 4, 5 (in 1945), and 84 (Sep'43)) went the other way.

Wirraways formed the initial complement of most squadrons (both bomber and fighter) as that's all that was available in the early years.

Note that the 70 series squadrons were formed with P-40s as the aircraft arrived from the U.S. (No. 75 Squadron was in action at Port Moresby fourteen days after being formed!! - and this includes transit time.....)

Cheers,
Reg.

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 43
P-61 - 6/16/2002 9:15:32 PM   
HARD_SARGE

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		Hi Rich
oops, guess I am late since the patch came out already, but for the OOB, could you look at the P-61 (ever since BTR) it has 4 20 mm in the TT and 4 50 Cal in the F, it should be the other way around, the 50 Cals were in the top turret (we finally got it change in the next version of BTR)

HARD_Sarge

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 44
Re: P-61 - 6/18/2002 11:45:21 AM   
Rich Dionne

 

Posts: 436
Joined: 7/11/2000
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by HARD_SARGE
[B]Hi Rich
oops, guess I am late since the patch came out already, but for the OOB, could you look at the P-61 (ever since BTR) it has 4 20 mm in the TT and 4 50 Cal in the F, it should be the other way around, the 50 Cals were in the top turret (we finally got it change in the next version of BTR)

HARD_Sarge [/B][/QUOTE]

I wasn't able to get all the OOB changes I wanted into this patch. But I'll look into it for the next one.

Thanks,

Rich

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 45
- 6/18/2002 9:33:21 PM   
HARD_SARGE

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		Hi Rich
Thank you sir
don't know if it will make as much difference in UV as it does in BTR, but it is still backwards

HARD_Sarge

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 46
- 6/19/2002 4:50:31 AM   
jcjordan

 

Posts: 1900
Joined: 6/27/2001
Status: offline 		Any ideas on when the Beauf VIC starts? I've had several sqdns of Hudsons, Beauforts & a Beauf VIC for several months with only a couple of Hudsons coming in as replacements. I'm playing the full campaign, scenario 17?

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 47
Beaufighter VIC - 6/19/2002 8:58:48 AM   
tanjman


Posts: 717
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: Griffin, GA
Status: offline 		jcjordan,

:) I'm not sure when they start arriving in scenario 17, but I've opened up all the scenarios to make a list of which aircraft arrived when and how many a month. And the the Beaufighter VIC shows up at least by 2/15/43 (I didn't write down which scenario) at 20 per month.

:) Hope this helps.

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Post #: 48
- 6/19/2002 11:44:35 AM   
worr

 

Posts: 901
Joined: 2/7/2001
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rich Dionne
[B]

Thanks Worr, yes, flew their first combat mission on 12 Aug 43 out of PM. I don't know how that was missed, but I'll remedy the situation.

Regards,

Rich [/B][/QUOTE]

Great to here it!

Worr, out

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 49
Re: Beaufighter VIC - 7/7/2002 5:44:45 AM   
GulfXray


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/7/2001
From: Bartlesville, Oklahoma USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by tanjman
[B]jcjordan,

:) I'm not sure when they start arriving in scenario 17, but I've opened up all the scenarios to make a list of which aircraft arrived when and how many a month. And the the Beaufighter VIC shows up at least by 2/15/43 (I didn't write down which scenario) at 20 per month.

:) Hope this helps. [/B][/QUOTE]

Tanjman, do you still have the list you referred do and would you be willing to share it? I'm not as historically literate on a/c types and availability as some folks, so I was looking for a timeline that I could 'marry up' with the upgrade path so I would now when to expect what.

Thanks in Advance....

_____________________________

Thanks
Shawn
Bartlesville, OK

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 50
Historical Beaufighter availability - 7/13/2002 7:19:33 AM   
Reg


Posts: 2787
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: NSW, Australia
Status: offline 		Historically, No. 30 Squadron was formed with Beaufighter 1C aircraft during Jun '42 and arrived in Port Moresby Sep 12, 1942 though a detachment of three aircraft was sent to Milne Bay (Gili Gili) at the end of that battle.

The first Mk.VIC aircraft arrived Nov '42 and Mk.X/XI were delivered from mid 1943. All these variants are being treated as a single generic type in the game as there are few significant differences between them.

As I have stated elsewhere, I think the Beaufighter is over represented in the game as there were only ever 5 squadrons equipped with the type, Nos. 30 and 31 in 1942, No. 22 in 1944 and Nos. 92 and 93 in 1945.

The game's upgrade paths are also misleading as the only squadron that reequipped with Beaufighters was No. 22 Squadron who ran out of replacement Boston aircraft in late 1944. The Beaufighter Mk 21 replaced the Beaufort on the local production lines though the original intention was to produce them side by side(delays in the Beaufighter program prevented that). I think there may have been plans to reequip the Beaufort squadrons with locally produced Beaufighters but local production didn't kick in until mid/late '44 and as it turned out, new squadrons were formed (No.s 92 & 93) rather than reequipping old squadrons.

You could play a variant where local production was not delayed and I suppose that replacement of Beauforts would have occurred.

Hope yo find this useful,
Reg.

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 51
- 7/13/2002 8:51:56 AM   
jcjordan

 

Posts: 1900
Joined: 6/27/2001
Status: offline 		FYI, in my current campaign game I started to receive the Beaufighter on Jan 43 at a rate of 20. I've played the first few days but haven't received any. The Boomerang started in Dec 42 at a rate of 6.

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 52
- 2/17/2003 12:02:13 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		I'm resurrecting this thread because I have a further question about upgrade paths. I know the paths -- I've printed out the .pdf files describing them -- but not the timeline. And I know there must be 125-133% of the required planes in the replacement pool. But the timing of upgrades eludes me.

E.g., as the Allies, *when* do the F4F-3's upgrade? As the IJN, when does the Claude turn into a Zero? Just as soon as there are enough replacement planes to fill a full squadron?

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 53
- 2/17/2003 2:20:24 PM   
NAVMAN

 

Posts: 436
Joined: 12/31/2002
Status: offline 		Based on my readings, the official reason that the B-17 was replaced by the B-24, was that the '24 had a longer range, usefull in Pacific operations. The unofficial reason was that the '17 was the weapon of choice in the ETO due to its durability and faith that the aircrews had in the aircraft. In short, it was considered more survivable in what was considered to be the toughest theater of the air war.

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Post #: 54
- 2/17/2003 3:18:05 PM   
derwho

 

Posts: 236
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]E.g., as the Allies, *when* do the F4F-3's upgrade? As the IJN, when does the Claude turn into a Zero? Just as soon as there are enough replacement planes to fill a full squadron?[/QUOTE]

Yes, just as soon. Sometimes I've noticed that not on the exact turn when you have the necessary aircraft in your pool but the next one.

I pointed this out to Ross Moorhouse but I might as well say it aloud here if anyone has anything to comment.

As a keen user of floatplanes (to quote Ross: "I hate you.") as convoy raiders I feel that the upgrade paths for IJN floatplanes are flawed. Based on my understanding the path should be:

F1M2->E1A3->E8N or E7K2

Now the Pete's (which are crappy and utterly useless in any duty) don't upgrade to anything. IJN ASW is already hard enough without this drawback.

I totally understand that this propably won't be fixed for UV but I hope the issue will be dealt in WiTP.

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Post #: 55
- 2/19/2003 1:12:53 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Yes, by the luck of the draw B17s got sent to Europe because they were considered tougher than the B24s. This was also the case with the Marauder which was the preferred bomber in Europe. So the Pacific theater got "stuck" with the liberator and mitchell bombers. A most fortunate accident. The liberator although not as tough as the 17, was still an American built plane and tough by any standard and more than able to hold it's own against the pitiful Zero. The liberator could carry a bigger bomb load, more fuel and was much easier to adapt to multiple duties than the B17. The mitchell excelled in its comparive simplicity and ease to fly. No small matter in a theater where parts were scarce and maitainence at best average-and where the skills of young pilots arriving in theater was at best average. Both planes turned out to be excellent choices for the Pacific theater.

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Post #: 56
- 2/19/2003 8:16:00 AM   
NAVMAN

 

Posts: 436
Joined: 12/31/2002
Status: offline 		crsutton:you are right about the performance of the '24 as compared to '17, as well as its versatility. It's my understanding
that a large part of the '24's performance was due to the "Davis"
wing. Although this imparted enhanced performance, for its time, it also made the aircraft, vis-a vis the '17, harder and more fatiguing to fly at altitude as well as being a less stable bombing platform. The characteristic of the '24 to catch fire in the wing tanks may be due to the wing design. I would take the B-25.As you probably know, the B-26 was initially given the title of "The Widow Maker." It was a "hot" airplane for its time and the crews needed to catch up with its performance. A more modern parallel can be found when the post-war German airforce transitioned to the F-104. They had a very high accident rate initially.

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 57
- 2/20/2003 5:10:29 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Hi Rich Dionne
was wondering, since nothing upgrades to the P-47 c ,why does it start being built so early ?

I got around 47-50 of them in stock, and think I still got around 2 months to go before the 3 squadrons come in ? (4-9-43)

HARD_Sarge

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Post #: 58
- 2/21/2003 2:10:39 PM   
Rich Dionne

 

Posts: 436
Joined: 7/11/2000
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hard Sarge
[B]Hi Rich Dionne
was wondering, since nothing upgrades to the P-47 c ,why does it start being built so early ?

I got around 47-50 of them in stock, and think I still got around 2 months to go before the 3 squadrons come in ? (4-9-43)

HARD_Sarge [/B][/QUOTE]

Hard Sarge,

Sounds like the availability date of the aircraft type is a bit out of sync with the associated air group arrival dates. I'll check it out.

Regards,

Rich Dionne

(in reply to Rich Dionne)
Post #: 59
- 2/21/2003 5:55:08 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply

yea I got 93 47 C's in stock, and 53 days till, I get the 3 47 squadrons


HARD_Sarge

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Post #: 60
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