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RE: 1.06.03 Observations

 
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RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/24/2009 3:26:21 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Neverman:

The movement stop would be based on who's machine is doing the move i.e. if the 1.05 player is moving then his moves might be blocked! If you are using 1.06.03 then you shoulf NOT be blocked per Mantis #501 BUT it sounds as if you can dupe this pretty easily?
Does not really matter who's depots they are.




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Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 31
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/24/2009 4:57:36 PM   
obsidiandrag


Posts: 181
Joined: 3/22/2008
From: Massachusetts, USA
Status: offline 		I have noticed that a depot without a garrison will "SHOW" stopping movement until you move someone in and remove the depot, then the movement shows the full move allowance.  I don't know if its a nationality marker thing or what, but I have noticed it and that you can still move through it, it just doesn't look like it with the computer generated movement area positions until after the depot is gone.

I have not tried moving through garrisoned depots though...

OD

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 32
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/24/2009 7:05:44 PM   
NeverMan

 

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Joined: 2/24/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obsidiandragon

I have noticed that a depot without a garrison will "SHOW" stopping movement until you move someone in and remove the depot, then the movement shows the full move allowance.  I don't know if its a nationality marker thing or what, but I have noticed it and that you can still move through it, it just doesn't look like it with the computer generated movement area positions until after the depot is gone.

I have not tried moving through garrisoned depots though...

OD


How is it possible to remove a garrisoned depot without ending the land phase?

(in reply to obsidiandrag)
Post #: 33
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/24/2009 7:06:11 PM   
NeverMan

 

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Joined: 2/24/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Neverman:

The movement stop would be based on who's machine is doing the move i.e. if the 1.05 player is moving then his moves might be blocked! If you are using 1.06.03 then you shoulf NOT be blocked per Mantis #501 BUT it sounds as if you can dupe this pretty easily?
Does not really matter who's depots they are.





I have a saved game if you are interested.

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 34
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/24/2009 8:41:28 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		You bet!



_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 35
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/24/2009 9:44:47 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		Here's an image, notice my corps still has 2 movement but no places are highlighted to move and when I try to click another area it tells me "not enough movement points".






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 36
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/24/2009 11:19:15 PM   
easterner

 

Posts: 179
Joined: 10/9/2004
Status: offline 		OK  started game with Fr garrisoned depot at Lille.  Brits could not walk past it. (CAV & INF cps)

Accellerated to March: Brits could not walk past it. (CAV & INF cps)

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 37
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/25/2009 12:39:50 AM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		I'll take a look at Neverman's game! ARRRRRGH! This was fixed in the 1.06.03 build (Tester verified)! It must have more than one cause???? Too late for 1.06 so it will have to go to 1.07!



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Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to easterner)
Post #: 38
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/25/2009 6:34:15 PM   
obsidiandrag


Posts: 181
Joined: 3/22/2008
From: Massachusetts, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan


quote:

ORIGINAL: obsidiandragon

I have noticed that a depot without a garrison will "SHOW" stopping movement until you move someone in and remove the depot, then the movement shows the full move allowance.  I don't know if its a nationality marker thing or what, but I have noticed it and that you can still move through it, it just doesn't look like it with the computer generated movement area positions until after the depot is gone.

I have not tried moving through garrisoned depots though...

OD


How is it possible to remove a garrisoned depot without ending the land phase?



I never said it was possible to remove a garrisoned depot -

I pointed out the the computer has issues with movement with ungarrisoned depots until you remove them (it looks like it will stop you movement).

The only way to remove them is by eliminating the troops inside - trust me, that one has bit me a few times trying to remove my own depots..

OD

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 39
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/25/2009 6:50:07 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obsidiandragon


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan


quote:

ORIGINAL: obsidiandragon

I have noticed that a depot without a garrison will "SHOW" stopping movement until you move someone in and remove the depot, then the movement shows the full move allowance.  I don't know if its a nationality marker thing or what, but I have noticed it and that you can still move through it, it just doesn't look like it with the computer generated movement area positions until after the depot is gone.

I have not tried moving through garrisoned depots though...

OD


How is it possible to remove a garrisoned depot without ending the land phase?



I never said it was possible to remove a garrisoned depot -

I pointed out the the computer has issues with movement with ungarrisoned depots until you remove them (it looks like it will stop you movement).

The only way to remove them is by eliminating the troops inside - trust me, that one has bit me a few times trying to remove my own depots..

OD


Oh , ok.

The game never asked me if I wanted to remove the depot, the depot just disappeared when I killed the garrison on it.

(in reply to obsidiandrag)
Post #: 40
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/25/2009 8:32:32 PM   
Jimmer

 

Posts: 1968
Joined: 12/5/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
Oh , ok.

The game never asked me if I wanted to remove the depot, the depot just disappeared when I killed the garrison on it.

That's normal, and even matches EiA, as far as it goes: After killing a garrison, the depot was destroyed. Alternately, in EiA, you could convert it to your own depot (if you had one available). But, you couldn't "eat" it, because the foraging part of the movement phase was over already.

So, in EiANW, all that it can do is destroy the depot after combat. No point in asking the player, since there are no options.

Speaking of which, Marshall: Would it be possible to add "convert depot" to the things you can do right after combat or as part of the combat ending process?

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(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 41
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/25/2009 10:29:54 PM   
NeverMan

 

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Joined: 2/24/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmer


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
Oh , ok.

The game never asked me if I wanted to remove the depot, the depot just disappeared when I killed the garrison on it.

That's normal, and even matches EiA, as far as it goes: After killing a garrison, the depot was destroyed. Alternately, in EiA, you could convert it to your own depot (if you had one available). But, you couldn't "eat" it, because the foraging part of the movement phase was over already.

So, in EiANW, all that it can do is destroy the depot after combat. No point in asking the player, since there are no options.

Speaking of which, Marshall: Would it be possible to add "convert depot" to the things you can do right after combat or as part of the combat ending process?


Yes, this is correct you have this right. It really shouldn't ask me to eat the depot in this scenario, which it doesn't so that's good.

(in reply to Jimmer)
Post #: 42
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/25/2009 10:59:29 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmer


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
Oh , ok.

The game never asked me if I wanted to remove the depot, the depot just disappeared when I killed the garrison on it.

That's normal, and even matches EiA, as far as it goes: After killing a garrison, the depot was destroyed. Alternately, in EiA, you could convert it to your own depot (if you had one available). But, you couldn't "eat" it, because the foraging part of the movement phase was over already.

So, in EiANW, all that it can do is destroy the depot after combat. No point in asking the player, since there are no options.

Speaking of which, Marshall: Would it be possible to add "convert depot" to the things you can do right after combat or as part of the combat ending process?


Well I suppose ??? but I need to create a decision point (Multiple options here) for the three options (destroy, eat, convert). I can take a look...BUT it will be down the road a bit here.




_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to Jimmer)
Post #: 43
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/26/2009 1:01:32 AM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Well I suppose ??? but I need to create a decision point (Multiple options here) for the three options (destroy, eat, convert). I can take a look...BUT it will be down the road a bit here.



I may be wrong, but I thought you only had the option to destroy, eat or convert undefended depots. Defended depots were destroyed.

If you do look at garrisoned depots sometime, can you look at allowing the garrison to destroy the depot and retreat inside the city while you are at.

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 44
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/26/2009 11:33:57 AM   
eske

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline 		Isn't it only ungarrisoned depots, that can ... .eerrhm ... what DB said!

/eske



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Post #: 45
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/27/2009 1:24:28 AM   
easterner

 

Posts: 179
Joined: 10/9/2004
Status: offline 		Just about finished with latest  RUSS-EASY-Soli

Took different approach concentrating on taking N.Germany & N. Italy.  Conq tremendous territory till finding Ru at war with Tu, Sp, Fr & UK. Eventuallly forced to surrender to Fr after armies destoyed and driven unstable.  Russ Conq Sp too, Leon (received), Morrocco (not received went neutral and Algeria (BUG: Not received, FIASCO Sp maintained control. Control window shaded Algeria Russ green but left cental coast & Tunisian border yellow so showed up two-toned)   Rebuilt retook all lost Conq FR & Sp again.

Au army was wiped out, probably by Turks, Prus almost wiped out but neutral Russia took all minors adjacent to Pr creating neutral zone they could recover behind. They shared in fr UNCON in 1814.

Very tight game with Fr near victory most turns rather than usual AI stomp session.


< Message edited by easterner -- 8/28/2009 7:37:56 AM >

(in reply to eske)
Post #: 46
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/27/2009 1:01:57 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Easterner:

Thanks for the posts! Good stuff!


_____________________________

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Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to easterner)
Post #: 47
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/27/2009 7:33:57 PM   
Jimmer

 

Posts: 1968
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis
Well I suppose ??? but I need to create a decision point (Multiple options here) for the three options (destroy, eat, convert). I can take a look...BUT it will be down the road a bit here.

Actually, there are two points at which this could happen: During land movement and after combat.

During land movement, any depot that is not garrisoned and has no friendly at-war corps guarding it, the attacker should be able to do any of the three. However, under the old rules, this depot could not be used as part of a supply chain for purposes of extending the supply chain. So, it would have to be marked as "placed this turn" if converted. Eating it is self-evident, as is destroying it.

After combat, destroy and convert are still possibilities. However, convert doesn't need to concern itself with "placed this turn", because supply is already over.

NOTE: When you implement this, you should tell the user his options, but also make note of how many depots remain available for placement. Players will want to know how many are left, but it would seem unlikely that they can turn on that view while you are prompting them. Something like "You may convert, consume, or clobber this depot. You have X depots remaining off map." ALternately, you could say "X/7 depots", if you want to do that much coding (people may not remember how many they have in total).

_____________________________

At LAST! The greatest campaign board game of all time is finally available for the PC. Can my old heart stand the strain?

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 48
RE: 1.06.03 Observations - 8/27/2009 7:35:55 PM   
Jimmer

 

Posts: 1968
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline 		7.3.6 MOVING INTO AN ENEMY DEPOT AREA:
7.3.6.1 UNGARRISONED DEPOT AREA: If during movement a corps, cossack, freikorps or guerilla moves into an area containing an ungarrisoned enemy depot, it may elect to destroy the depot. If it does destroy the depot and ends its movement in that area, then having destroyed the depot counts as having successfully foraged for supply (with no loss) for that one corps counter. An alternative to destroying a depot is to convert (remove the enemy depot and replace it with one of the entering power's depots-there is no money cost for this conversion) it to a friendly depot if that would make it a supply source or an extension of a friendly valid supply chain (see 7.2.3).
7.3.6.2 GARRISONED DEPOT AREA: If an enemy depot is garrisoned, the player controlling the garrison factors has the option of immediately destroying the depot before the moving force chooses whether to leave the area (if permissible) or to stay and fight. If the garrison does not elect to destroy the depot and the phasing force chooses to stop its movement and fight, the depot may be captured after land combat (see 7.3.6.1) and destroyed or converted (but not used for supply this major power's sequence-also see 7.5.2.14). If the garrison destroys the depot, the garrison surrenders or all or part (if city cannot hold all-the part not moved to the city will surrender) can be moved to an unbesieged friendly controlled or vacant city in that same area, at the owning player's option.

_____________________________

At LAST! The greatest campaign board game of all time is finally available for the PC. Can my old heart stand the strain?

(in reply to Jimmer)
Post #: 49
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