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newbie question: oil/resource shipping - 8/30/2009 9:08:50 AM

rattovolante

Posts: 188
Joined: 8/30/2009
From: Italy
Status: offline

Hello, I'm a newbie struggling with Japan's logistics :)

I'm using Hokkaido as an example, the same applies on a much larger scale elsewhere (e.g., China/Korea/Manchuria).

Asahikawa (the inland base in the center of the island) has 5 oil wells and 60 resource centers (even with 20 LI this means an excess of resource production).

How do I ship to Honshu the resources and oil produced there?

Are they automatically transferred to some nearby port? How do I know which port they are being sent to? In other words, where should I send my ships to load it?

Thanks for any help!

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RE: newbie question: oil/resource shipping - 8/30/2009 9:23:11 AM

romanovich

Posts: 126
Joined: 12/8/2004
From: SoCal
Status: offline

Steep learning curve, be warned! Playing Allies might be easier to start.

Section 9.3.3.3 AUTOMATIC TRANSFER OF BULK CARGO BETWEEN ADJACENT PORTS has some info on how things get transferred from Hokkaido to Honshu. Resources/Oil/etc. all are transferred automatically if there is a need in one place and these resources are in abundance at another place. So if Hokkaido doesn't use up its full production of resources, the surplus goes to Honshu, where there is an undersupply. But only to the extent of the limits set in Sec 9.3.3.3.

If you need more, you need to arrange for transport by ship. Since Asahikawa is landlocked, load up resources at some port. Once the stock there is depleted, automatic transfer within Hokkaido (by lorry or railroad) will move resources to the port, ready for embarkation onto the next ship going to Honshu.

Careful with moving stuff out of Korea/Manchuria. Compute the long-term needs of the industry there. You will find that the stockpiles will allow for industrial production in that area of the Jap empire. If you draw down the stock, you'll have to replenish them soon to keep the local HI moving.

Jap production ain't easy. Check out "The War Room" up in the Forums. Good commentary to be had there.

(in reply to rattovolante)

Post #: 2

RE: newbie question: oil/resource shipping - 8/30/2009 10:16:34 AM

Mistmatz

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline

Welcome to the forum Rattovolante.

AE is certainly not easy for both sides but I assume with the japanese you went for the bigger challenge. Good luck and have fun and keep your spirits high even though the game can be frustrating (esp. the learning curve) at times. In the end its worth to endure the pain.

(in reply to romanovich)

Post #: 3

RE: newbie question: oil/resource shipping - 8/30/2009 10:36:19 AM

rattovolante

Posts: 188
Joined: 8/30/2009
From: Italy
Status: offline

thanks for the warnings :) but don't worry, I know it's tough, I've been following the forums since when the game was rumored to be near completion (like... er... last year!

)

Also, I'm not actually playing right now, more learning the basics and doing crazy experiments just to figure out how things work. I think this isn't a game where you can learn while you play - my plan is to start playing the AI (i.e., playing with the goal of actually defeating it, not just learning) when I feel I have a decent grasp of the basics.

Also, I believe that the basics are better learnt from the Japanese side, as there is way more action (and thus more possible mistakes and learning opportunities) right from the very first turns, so if I feel like for example experimenting with amphibious operations I don't need to process 5 turns just to get to the point where I can see what the differences in losses/disruption/whatever are between a 0-preparation invasion, a 50-preparation one and a 100-preparation one for example.

First lesson already learnt: some of the buttons have no undo short of reloading a previous save ;)

quote:

Section 9.3.3.3 AUTOMATIC TRANSFER OF BULK CARGO BETWEEN ADJACENT PORTS has some info on how things get transferred from Hokkaido to Honshu.

This is interesting, I had understood that section of the manual in a different way. The manual reads:

quote:

"Whether this automatic transfer occurs depends on the need for the material to be transferred between the two ports.
[...]
The amount of material transported in this way is determined by the need for the material to be transferred from the source port to the adjacent destination port. For example, if a port has excess fuel present, and an adjacent port has Heavy Industry present but no fuel, then some of the excess fuel will be automatically transported from the port containing the fuel to the port with the Heavy Industry (as fuel is required to make Heavy Industry centers operate)."

As an example, let's suppose that Hakodate (Hokkaido) and Ominato (Honshu) are considered "adjacent" by the game - I'm not 100% sure about this as the hexside between them is unpassable (red).
I understood that since Ominato has no refineries, it won't ever have a need for oil.

Do you mean that Ominato, being connected by rail to the refineries in Honshu will be marked as "needing oil" by the game when any of Honshu bases needs oil?

quote:

If you need more, you need to arrange for transport by ship. Since Asahikawa is landlocked, load up resources at some port. Once the stock there is depleted, automatic transfer within Hokkaido (by lorry or railroad) will move resources to the port, ready for embarkation onto the next ship going to Honshu.

So in practice a ship in port trying to load resources (or oil or whatever) will "pump out" resources from the whole (rail)road network the port is linked to? Am I understanding this correctly? I expected to have to send ships to the ports holding resources (and to enlarge the ports of resource-producing basese), rather than just selecting a single port or two per island/cluster and doing all the shipping through them.

Does it also mean that for example, to ship resources from China to Honshu (just as an example, regardless of whether it's a good idea to actually do it) I can use the port of Fusan instead of, say, Shanghai or Port Arthur? Is there any spoilage for automatically moving oil/resources over long distances (or for example, minor roads) in this way?

Unrelated question: are HI and manpower points (not facilities) actually represented on map? For example, if I want to expand the refineries at Miri, do I need to ship HI and manpower there in addition to supply or are HI and manpower points just detracted from an abstract pool (sort of like mines, for example)?

< Message edited by rattovolante -- 8/30/2009 10:38:44 AM >

(in reply to romanovich)

Post #: 4

RE: newbie question: oil/resource shipping - 8/30/2009 11:00:52 AM

Mistmatz

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline

You'll have to send the ships to those ports were the goods you want to move around are stored. Resources do not come to a port were ships are waiting.

HI and manpower are not required to be transported, only resources, oil, fuel and supply are.

(in reply to rattovolante)

Post #: 5

RE: newbie question: oil/resource shipping - 8/30/2009 1:33:21 PM

Djordje

Posts: 537
Joined: 9/12/2004
Status: offline

Resources and oil might come to the port where your ships are waiting, but it would not be influenced by those ships at all. What I want to say is that if you wait for few days with your ships, resources and oil might come because your ships loaded the stock that was previously there and port pulled more from bases around.

Always try to go for the largest port in the area to load stuff, for many reasons - more and larger ships can dock so they would load faster, and larger ports seem to be the place where resources and oil stockpile, especially if there is a good link with neighboring bases (railroad or at least good road). You can press "R" for roads and "Y" for railroads to see what bases are connected.

As for your other question concerning Ominato and Hakodate, when two bases are next to each other and share only water link, some movement of material can occur using small port shipping (that you can't see). Amount moved would be smaller port size x 500. So if one port is size 6 and the other is size 4 it would be 4x400=2000 per turn between those two ports.
You might want to increase some smaller ports in Japan to allow larger flow of material from smaller islands.

(in reply to rattovolante)

Post #: 6

RE: newbie question: oil/resource shipping - 8/30/2009 2:25:14 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rattovolante

Hello, I'm a newbie struggling with Japan's logistics :)

I'm using Hokkaido as an example, the same applies on a much larger scale elsewhere (e.g., China/Korea/Manchuria).

Asahikawa (the inland base in the center of the island) has 5 oil wells and 60 resource centers (even with 20 LI this means an excess of resource production).

How do I ship to Honshu the resources and oil produced there?

Are they automatically transferred to some nearby port? How do I know which port they are being sent to? In other words, where should I send my ships to load it?

Thanks for any help!

Hi and welcome to the dark side!

You can rely on the AI to ship stuff from port to port as explained by romanovich. I try not to rely on the AI whenever possible. I stick a couple of xAKs in ports where resources will accumulate (any of them with LI will work). When enough accumulates for a shipload, form a cargo TF, set to load resources and give the TF a destination where you want the stuff to go.

That's really all you need to do. Just check every couple of turns to make sure everything is good.

_____________________________

Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to rattovolante)

Post #: 7

RE: newbie question: oil/resource shipping - 8/30/2009 2:31:04 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rattovolante
So in practice a ship in port trying to load resources (or oil or whatever) will "pump out" resources from the whole (rail)road network the port is linked to? Am I understanding this correctly? I expected to have to send ships to the ports holding resources (and to enlarge the ports of resource-producing basese), rather than just selecting a single port or two per island/cluster and doing all the shipping through them.

Does it also mean that for example, to ship resources from China to Honshu (just as an example, regardless of whether it's a good idea to actually do it) I can use the port of Fusan instead of, say, Shanghai or Port Arthur? Is there any spoilage for automatically moving oil/resources over long distances (or for example, minor roads) in this way?

I recommend putting a few xAKs in the major ports along the Chinese/Manchurian/Korean coast and see which ones accumulate resources. Some will and some won't. When you get a shipload, haul it to where it's needed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rattovolante
Unrelated question: are HI and manpower points (not facilities) actually represented on map? For example, if I want to expand the refineries at Miri, do I need to ship HI and manpower there in addition to supply or are HI and manpower points just detracted from an abstract pool (sort of like mines, for example)?

HI and manpower points are in a pool. You do not need to send them anywhere. When anything used them, it's taken directly from the pool. Abstract, but it works well.

This brings an important point to light. Anything in a pool (HI, manpower, engines, aircraft, etc.) is immune to Allied bombing. Pools are good.

_____________________________

Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to rattovolante)

Post #: 8