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RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/22/2010 1:23:13 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks for posting that chart Joel.

What does the increased MP penalty for ice levels lower than 5 represent, the ice making it more difficult to bridge the water/the ice destroying pontoon bridges?

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/22/2010 1:24:44 PM >

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 781
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/22/2010 3:43:07 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Yes.

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Post #: 782
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/23/2010 7:04:58 PM   
Smirfy

 

Posts: 1057
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline 		I'm following Pyledrivers AAR. I was wondering how does the game handle ahistorical outcomes. Like for instance in Pyledriver's game the 16th Pz is surrounded and might be destroyed. What if that was a division that was scheduled to be transfered west? How is that handled as I expect the Atlantic wall still needs defended. Also several formations wont be destroyed at Stalingrad how is that handled. The German practice seemed to be to send burnt out divisions back home or to the west to refit and reequip to ease the logistic strain reequiping in theatre seemed problematical for them. how is that handled as maybe the same division dont suffer the same losses as they did historically? As Stalingrad wont be taken or destroyed in Pyledrivers game surely a city that is not destroyed and civilain population wiped out would have a massive effect on production

< Message edited by Smirfy -- 5/23/2010 7:08:45 PM >

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Post #: 783
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/23/2010 8:49:00 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		It was mentioned earlier that some divisions would be placed in Germany and slowly be (re)build over time, so possibly KIA'ed divisions also return as cadres that you could fill up. That would be preferable in some ways, as the Germans can't produce new units so a KIA'ed unit would be gone forever if it doesn't return as a cadre, which would be especially painful when Motorised and Panzer divisions are concerned.

(in reply to Smirfy)
Post #: 784
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 2:44:37 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		From the manual:

quote:

When German Units are Destroyed they return to the map the next turn and they stay frozen for 6 turns. They come back with around 40% experience.


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Post #: 785
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 3:01:19 AM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		Many of the units destroyed at Stalingrad were rebuilt and sent to Italy. Those units are withdraw about a month or two prior to when they were re-deployed. Units are not arbitrarily withdrawn from the game if they were destroyed historically.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smirfy

I'm following Pyledrivers AAR. I was wondering how does the game handle ahistorical outcomes. Like for instance in Pyledriver's game the 16th Pz is surrounded and might be destroyed. What if that was a division that was scheduled to be transfered west? How is that handled as I expect the Atlantic wall still needs defended. Also several formations wont be destroyed at Stalingrad how is that handled. The German practice seemed to be to send burnt out divisions back home or to the west to refit and reequip to ease the logistic strain reequiping in theatre seemed problematical for them. how is that handled as maybe the same division dont suffer the same losses as they did historically? As Stalingrad wont be taken or destroyed in Pyledrivers game surely a city that is not destroyed and civilain population wiped out would have a massive effect on production



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(in reply to Smirfy)
Post #: 786
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 10:57:15 AM   
ComradeP

 

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Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		So at the start of the 6 week "frozen" period, they have 40 experience, or do they have 40 experience at the end of that period?

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Post #: 787
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 12:29:10 PM   
british exil


Posts: 1686
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From: Lower Saxony Germany
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quote:

War in the East Beta Tester
Scenario Design and Unit Researcher
Sabre 21's perpetual arch-nemisis


el hefe are you just teasing us with your sig? WitE Beta Tester? or WitE Beta Teaser?

Thought the Alpha phase was not over yet. Or did I miss something????

Mat

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Post #: 788
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 1:10:33 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		Man! You guys are desparate! I changed my sig to eliminate the confusion. We are real close to Beta.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

quote:

War in the East Beta Tester
Scenario Design and Unit Researcher
Sabre 21's perpetual arch-nemisis


el hefe are you just teasing us with your sig? WitE Beta Tester? or WitE Beta Teaser?

Thought the Alpha phase was not over yet. Or did I miss something????

Mat



_____________________________

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(in reply to british exil)
Post #: 789
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 1:55:52 PM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

Man! You guys are desparate!


Once people became aware of the possible existence of the Holy Grail, they started searching for it. Some of us have the impression that we might have found it.

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Post #: 790
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 4:38:52 PM   
british exil


Posts: 1686
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quote:

We are real close to Beta.


How close?


Sorry couldn't resist the question.

Mat

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Post #: 791
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 5:42:42 PM   
Neal_MLC

 

Posts: 180
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Status: offline 		so, I'm guessing no June 22 release...

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Post #: 792
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 7:17:25 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		To continue the discussion of the mud season:

I think the effects of mud as described are too serious.

For starters: the game uses 1 week turns. If you move 1 mile/hour for 16 hours during a day due to mud conditions, you still advance 11 hexes in game terms.

Perhaps the effects of mud would be more accurate if hasty attacks were not possible and deliberate attacks would require significantly more MP's.

Yes, the mud would certainly make it difficult to attack, but you have an entire week to prepare for it, so you'd still get 8.000 out of 10.000 guys into battle, it just takes a lot more preparation and the breakthroughs will be less significant.

If mud basically shuts the entire front down, imagine what a typical Russian rain storm in July 1941 (or any other random weather out of season mud turn) would do to the German advance: the Soviets get another week to move in troops/fortify and the Germans are more or less stuck where they are.

Mud might be terrible, but it didn't shut down operations like a serious blizzard. Everything was slowed down to a crawl, but movement and attacks were still possible.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/24/2010 7:18:50 PM >

(in reply to Neal_MLC)
Post #: 793
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 7:41:20 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Comrade have you ever lived in off road country? I have, you stay home, or call your friends to help dig you out....

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(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 794
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 7:44:49 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Status: offline 		But it doesn't take a week to dig you out.

My dad lives in a rural area, and there are plenty of roads there where, if you ain't driving a tractor, you shouldn't be there when the road is muddy. However, as long as you're prepared, the mud is less of a problem on foot.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/24/2010 7:46:43 PM >

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Post #: 795
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 8:13:30 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		I don't make the call here - Joel does. The key turning point to getting into beta is getting all of the rules finalized and all of the features added. We have made a lot of progress with the victory conditions decided upon and implemented, art is being finalized, basic PBEM functionality has just been added (haven't tried it myself), and the 1941 campaign should be getting locked from changes here in a couple of weeks. We still have to add the sound effects and music and Pavel and Jim are crunching production numbers. I am finishing up Axis data entry for 1941 with the Hungarian and Romanian air unit review and then I have a slew of changes to apply to the remaining campaign games.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

quote:

We are real close to Beta.


How close?


Sorry couldn't resist the question.

Mat



_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

WiTE Scenario Designer
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WitE 2.0 Scenario Designer

(in reply to british exil)
Post #: 796
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 8:14:50 PM   
Neal_MLC

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		Having grown up in rural Missouri where we have mud every spring and fall, but nothing like the steppes of Mother Russia, I can assure you that even "light" mud can stop you in your tracks. It slick as ice and as sticky as duct tape and just because you have a tracked vehicle doesn't mean you are going to move  Just another thought/question, have you ever tried to dig out a stuck bulldozer? I really really hate mud.

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Post #: 797
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 10:23:40 PM   
british exil


Posts: 1686
Joined: 5/4/2006
From: Lower Saxony Germany
Status: offline 		I bet these men hated mud too.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Neal_MLC)
Post #: 798
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 10:25:01 PM   
british exil


Posts: 1686
Joined: 5/4/2006
From: Lower Saxony Germany
Status: offline 		But also in the pacific the US also faced similar problems with lighter vehicles.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 799
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 10:27:44 PM   
Smirfy

 

Posts: 1057
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

To continue the discussion of the mud season:

I think the effects of mud as described are too serious.

For starters: the game uses 1 week turns. If you move 1 mile/hour for 16 hours during a day due to mud conditions, you still advance 11 hexes in game terms.

Perhaps the effects of mud would be more accurate if hasty attacks were not possible and deliberate attacks would require significantly more MP's.

Yes, the mud would certainly make it difficult to attack, but you have an entire week to prepare for it, so you'd still get 8.000 out of 10.000 guys into battle, it just takes a lot more preparation and the breakthroughs will be less significant.

If mud basically shuts the entire front down, imagine what a typical Russian rain storm in July 1941 (or any other random weather out of season mud turn) would do to the German advance: the Soviets get another week to move in troops/fortify and the Germans are more or less stuck where they are.

Mud might be terrible, but it didn't shut down operations like a serious blizzard. Everything was slowed down to a crawl, but movement and attacks were still possible.


The problem with mud in Russia was not just movement, logistics became impossible units were left with what they had to hand. Fire off your ammo and thats it. Right through the war in Russia the mud brought an end to campaigning in Autumn and Spring . The late thaw in 44 forced Hitler to lend the Eastern front Lehr, 9th SS 10th SS and 349th after he gambled on an early thaw and lost. In 43 Manstein's counter came to an end once the thaw came.




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Post #: 800
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/24/2010 10:58:59 PM   
Helpless


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RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/25/2010 3:09:08 AM   
wurger54

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:


To continue the discussion of the mud season



I always liked the two levels of mud in the old Russian Campaign board game.

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Post #: 802
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/25/2010 4:49:32 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Are people seriously disputing how unbelievably disruptive the rasputitsa was? It shut down campaigns -- for both sides. This is as close to a no brainer for game design as it gets, c'mon.




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Post #: 803
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/25/2010 11:24:01 AM   
ComradeP

 

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Joined: 9/17/2009
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quote:

Are people seriously disputing how unbelievably disruptive the rasputitsa was? It shut down campaigns -- for both sides. This is as close to a no brainer for game design as it gets, c'mon.


I'm disputing that there's "mud" (which could appear in any season in the Soviet Union) and that it's always equally disruptive.

The idea of two levels of mud would be a good start.

There's a difference between a muddy field and WWI no man's land after a rain storm, just like there's a difference between a muddy road and a muddy road that thousands of vehicles used/tried to use.

I'd also like to stress that the game uses 1 week turns, and even when it's muddy, a week gives you plenty of time to do something, it will just be very slow.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 804
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/25/2010 12:07:03 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I see no reason to add multiple levels of mud to this game. "Mud" in this context represents the rasputista and that's that. It's a very specific climactic event that happens biannually in this part of the world, and vehicular use doesn't really have much to do with it in this particular time frame: Russia had virtually no hard surface roads.

When the weather changed in spring and autumn campaigns stopped, and stopped quite suddenly. You could possibly make a case for weather zones, I suppose, since it acted somewhat differently in the Ukraine than in the north, and the timing of the rasputitsa did show some regional variations. But levels of mud? Nope.

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Post #: 805
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/25/2010 12:54:07 PM   
jaw

 

Posts: 1045
Joined: 7/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I see no reason to add multiple levels of mud to this game. "Mud" in this context represents the rasputista and that's that. It's a very specific climactic event that happens biannually in this part of the world, and vehicular use doesn't really have much to do with it in this particular time frame: Russia had virtually no hard surface roads.

When the weather changed in spring and autumn campaigns stopped, and stopped quite suddenly. You could possibly make a case for weather zones, I suppose, since it acted somewhat differently in the Ukraine than in the north, and the timing of the rasputitsa did show some regional variations. But levels of mud? Nope.


The game does have weather zones and the whole front doesn't change simultaneously. You can have mud in front of Moscow and still dry weather down south. Perhaps someone could post a shot of the map showing the weather zones?

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 806
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/25/2010 1:06:42 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jaw

... Perhaps someone could post a shot of the map showing the weather zones?


Not quite the whole map but is shows the four weather zones.






Attachment (1)

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We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

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Post #: 807
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/25/2010 3:27:02 PM   
USSLockwood

 

Posts: 543
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline 		Any chance of seeing a AAR with the AI playing the Germans on offense?  Barbarossa or Blau, or even Kursk?

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Post #: 808
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/25/2010 4:55:32 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		The German AI is still a work in progress...May be some time before that can happen...

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Jon Pyle
AWD Beta tester
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Post #: 809
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/25/2010 5:02:35 PM   
ajds

 

Posts: 44
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Status: offline 		That is a beautiful map

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Post #: 810
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