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RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/3/2010 11:06:43 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		The point of these "in development" forums is to discuss products that are in development. I didn't realize that this discussion makes us look bad. We do it because people are interested in knowing what we're doing and it gets people interested in the product.

Matrix does not give out release dates. I am not Matrix, I am part of 2by3 Games, although Matrix is our publisher and I support them completely.

We are still fixing bugs in the server system although at least we have all the interface in and it mostly works. So we are at beta, but still fixing bugs and making tweaks. Thanks to a Herculean effort by Allan Berke, the printed manual has gone off for formatting and layout, so things are progressing. Still much to do but the release data gets closer every day, whatever it might be.

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(in reply to wg335910)
Post #: 1111
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/3/2010 11:55:39 PM   
Vasquez


Posts: 441
Joined: 12/29/2000
From: München, Bayern, Deutschland
Status: offline 		Take your time Joel. Almost 10 Years ago you told me via E-Mail that WITE will some day be released.

A few months more or less doesnt matter now =)

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Post #: 1112
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/5/2010 2:38:41 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

The potential upgrade happens when the TOE changes. I was just trying to illustrate ways to get the upgrade to happen quicker. Units in the front line will get the new gear, but at a slower rate than if they were out of the front line.

You get notified of a TOE change in the weekly logistics report, and you can check a units TOE at any time. There is more information available in this game than you can shake a very big stick at.



Thanks - helpful.
In my book one can never have too much information as long as it is presented clearly: as is the case about everything I have seen in this game (sorry, way of life) to date. Mind you, I do have a mild form of Asperger's which is quite common in successful practitioners in my area of work......

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web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 1113
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/5/2010 2:53:40 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

The point of these "in development" forums is to discuss products that are in development. I didn't realize that this discussion makes us look bad.

You don't look bad to me. In this context there is nothing more irritating than putting a game out before it is ready. Once it's out it is judged on quality and everyone forgets about any 'delay'. There have been a number of major releases in the past year or so even from really good companies that have been either wholly unplayable or not worth playing because they were not even at beta before release.

Please keep resisting the temptation to fall into that trap.

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web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 1114
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/5/2010 5:19:01 PM   
SGHunt


Posts: 873
Joined: 1/20/2010
From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline 		I'm glad of all the detail obsessed people who are working on this game - I wouldn't want to say where they may be on the spectrum!    I'm not (at least not comparatively) that bothered by the mass of detail that's here, but it's great to know it's all in there ticking away happily.   When I need it, I can drill for it and there it is!!!

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WitE Alpha, Beta Tester


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Post #: 1115
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/5/2010 11:49:12 PM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		Games for grognards should be made by grognards. 

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Post #: 1116
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/6/2010 1:02:47 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		WitE is a tantric wargame. Discuss.

On second thoughts, please don't

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 1117
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/6/2010 10:59:05 AM   
janh

 

Posts: 1216
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
The point of these "in development" forums is to discuss products that are in development. I didn't realize that this discussion makes us look bad. We do it because people are interested in knowing what we're doing and it gets people interested in the product.


At least I can agree with that. I am curious about WitEast and curious to see how it develops until the release data. Yes, it is not yet available, it is somewhere near or at beta stage, but much can still change until it can reach us customers. Until then, there surely is no point for anybody to make a final judgement on whether he likes what he could get -- it is not final yet. If one likes the land warfare in Russia, and enjoyed historic WiR, then this one would surely looks appealing as well.

The developers and testers are supplying here first impressions as well as detailed information on how the games works, and how it plays (now) -- at the expense of their valuable time. This is basically a "(not-so) sneak preview", and we get really first-hand infos. Honest ones, and direct ones. And we can voice our concerns and wishes at an early stage, hoping that they will be considered (or proven unnecessary) for the release or future patches/addons. As a customer, I value that treat highly. I may not like all of the new features of the game (yet?), and I miss some of its historic ancestor, but there is already a LONG list of GREAT innovations in this product that may "force" me to buy it not long after release (I'll keep watching this forum for a bit first...).

I don't see how that information policy and honesty can make them look bad. Seriously -- just think of the alternative.




< Message edited by janh -- 11/6/2010 11:02:51 AM >

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Post #: 1118
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/7/2010 8:18:13 PM   
SGHunt


Posts: 873
Joined: 1/20/2010
From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: janh
I'll keep watching this forum for a bit first...).



Jan - my bet is you'll be 'watching' the forum for about 10 seconds after you see the game has been released, just checking that you read it right, and then you'll be downloading it!!!

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WitE Alpha, Beta Tester


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Post #: 1119
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/8/2010 9:39:42 AM   
knilli

 

Posts: 75
Joined: 12/30/2008
From: Joey Land
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

The point of these "in development" forums is to discuss products that are in development. I didn't realize that this discussion makes us look bad. We do it because people are interested in knowing what we're doing and it gets people interested in the product.

Matrix does not give out release dates. I am not Matrix, I am part of 2by3 Games, although Matrix is our publisher and I support them completely.

We are still fixing bugs in the server system although at least we have all the interface in and it mostly works. So we are at beta, but still fixing bugs and making tweaks. Thanks to a Herculean effort by Allan Berke, the printed manual has gone off for formatting and layout, so things are progressing. Still much to do but the release data gets closer every day, whatever it might be.


It does not make you guys look bad - the opposite is true! I do not know any other place where games are discussed in such an open and honest way! This here is one of the few places I know, where I have the feeling that someone cares about me, the customer. And as one of the previous posters remarked: the final product will be judged and no one will care about a few month up or down. It is the product which counts. Just keep up your work...and just in case you guys have some energy left, after the release..... WitW would be a nice one too :)

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Post #: 1120
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/8/2010 11:18:58 PM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Agreed, compared to many forums I have been on this one is the most honest and informative. Testers take there own time to answer questions and explain game mechanics in detail when they can. In some forums just getting customer support for real issues on released games is impossible. Keep up the fine work and know alot of people who rarely post (lurkers like me ) are waiting for this game and following these boards.

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Post #: 1121
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/9/2010 12:53:20 AM   
Wild


Posts: 364
Joined: 12/10/2007
Status: offline 		I agree completely with miller41. You guys have been great.
I may not post much but i read these forums everyday, and i really appreciate how open and honest you guys are.
Thanks to everyone involved!!!

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Post #: 1122
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/9/2010 2:06:27 AM   
Shupov


Posts: 286
Joined: 2/7/2004
From: United States
Status: offline 		My sentiments as well. Nearly every question has been answered in a complete and honest way. The game appears to cover almost every imaginable aspect of this titanic conflict. I'll buy this game as soon as it becomes available!

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Post #: 1123
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/9/2010 1:26:11 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		Giving dishonest/false answers, or not answering questions at all, is no way to build and/or sustain a community. Developers and testers are trying to turn the game into something that will deliver a challenging, interesting and entertaining experience. Giving the community false expectations would only damage that goal.

We hope we can give you a good idea of what you'll be buying, to avoid any possible disappointment. As I'm also involved with testing for SSG, and having seen the "the price is too high" debates for Kharkov and ATD2 but also for a non-SSG title like BftB, honesty really seems the way to go as we don't want the community to be buying what they might eventually view as a dud, but instead hope you, as the community, will be able to enjoy the game with us right from the start and, like the testers, will appreciate the effort made by the developers both during the pre-release development cycle and the essentially infinite post-release improvement period (monster games are never truly "finished" in terms of development).

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Panzer Corps Beta tester
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Post #: 1124
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/9/2010 3:36:40 PM   
janh

 

Posts: 1216
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
Giving dishonest/false answers, or not answering questions at all, is no way to build and/or sustain a community. Developers and testers are trying to turn the game into something that will deliver a challenging, interesting and entertaining experience. Giving the community false expectations would only damage that goal.


Well written, ComradeP.

Everyone knows that nothing in the world will be perfect ("perfect" for oneself), but many big publishers today appear not to think the way people here at Matrix (and their studios) think. I get the feeling that especially big software companies have changed their strategy today from "the customer is king, and high product quality what sells" to "chain the customers with OSP/DRM, censor negative info on their company forums, publish and stretch only the few positive innovations that ever make it, and extensively reverse-engineer public opinion through crowd controlers (sorry, I forgot their euphemistic job title)". Until now those studios have complaint much about piracy killing their huge ROIs, though a good many studies (including the famous, recent FBI one) question the validity of those claims. Tomorrow they will attack customers for not buying. Would be nice if they could start looking for fault with themselves, their products and their service...

I am much happier to pay a little more for the very few games that I have time today to play, but get quality, innovation, and customer support. And find a forum where the developers are actually accessible to questions, and show that they care about their product, and where customer requests and complaints actually make it into patches beyond bug-fixing. I think it is necessary to point that out here!

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 1125
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/10/2010 12:47:15 AM   
zbig

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline 		I am looking forward to playing the game, but even if I did not intend on playing it, I would still buy it to support the devlopment of simulation games.

(in reply to janh)
Post #: 1126
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/10/2010 1:31:43 AM   
RocketMan


Posts: 718
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Delaware, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wg335910

Is it just me? or are all of you discussing a product that is not available. And does not seem to be available for the near future. I have not seen any new release dates. Come to think of it, I haven't seen anything official about this product all this year. If the product is going to be delayed, say so. After all, I may be only one customer. But I'm sure there are many others out there scratching their heads. I have been a loyal customer for several years. If I am mis-understanding the situation, I apologize. If not, can someone tell me when this product is likely to be available. I believe I deserve at least that much. And finally, when all is said and done, this whole situation is making Mr. Grisby look bad. This company needs to address this immediately. Thank You.


This just confuses me. Matrix is the most open game developer I know. There might be some small companies that are just as or more open but I can't think of any company their size or larger that even comes close. There have been a few Matrix games I have been disappointed with over the years, but I have been satisfied with the majority of them. And I have almost always been satisfied with the support and communication Matrix provides. The public development forums are an excellent example of the support Matrix provides. Players not only get feedback on how the development process is going, but they also get to provide some input to the process as well.

As to a possible release date, I understand why Matrix doesn't give them out, but anybody reading this forum can probably figure out from the testers and developers posts that it is almost certainly less than a year away (nothing is ever certain) but more likely in the low single digit months away. It would be nice to think it is single digit weeks away, but I would rather be surprised if it is released so soon instead of being disappointed it isn't. I have had too many experiences with poorly coded buggy games in my 30 years of computer gaming and would rather wait a little bit for the game to be as complete as possible before it is actually released.

< Message edited by RocketMan -- 11/10/2010 1:35:02 AM >

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Post #: 1127
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/10/2010 3:36:12 AM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline 		What RocketMan said

< Message edited by pompack -- 11/10/2010 3:38:52 AM >

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Post #: 1128
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/10/2010 3:47:12 AM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		someone also mentioned DRM earlier and I wanted to chime in here as well. I own 17 matrix titles (yes I counted them) and have never once had to call anyone, e-mail anyone or beg to get a serial number. I made copies of my down loads (if i didn't buy the disc) and they are always available if i feel like playing and I always have access to my serial number. Why others don't use this system amazes me considering that because of how easy it is (assuming of course you save your game disc or download). It is another reason I buy from matrix, they trust me not to copy and give away there products and I return that buy buying them. Seems like a good system to me anyway.

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Post #: 1129
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/10/2010 7:12:36 PM   
TPM

 

Posts: 349
Joined: 2/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack

What RocketMan said


I agree...not quite understanding what wg335910 is talking about.

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/10/2010 8:25:13 PM   
Neal_MLC

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		Matrix games and 2X3 games have a lot of things but one thing they do not have is a bad image. I use both of these companies as examples of how to do business in the management and business classes I teach.

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/11/2010 6:46:52 PM   
Capt Cliff


Posts: 1791
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Kudo's for Matrix and 2x3 for being so open with all their game developement, their ability to listen to suggestions and their frankness in telling peeps just where to place dumb ideas. Huzzah! Huzzah! Huzzah!

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Post #: 1132
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/12/2010 9:30:30 AM   
knilli

 

Posts: 75
Joined: 12/30/2008
From: Joey Land
Status: offline 		I find it amazing that someone is complaining about the fact that we can/are able to discuss a game which is not yet released. But where we are able to ask questions and are also able to voice our opinions during the making process.

just for wg335910: this particular part of the forum is called "coming soon and in development". let's guess what that means?

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Post #: 1133
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/12/2010 8:35:59 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: knilli

I find it amazing that someone is complaining about the fact that we can/are able to discuss a game which is not yet released. But where we are able to ask questions and are also able to voice our opinions during the making process.

just for wg335910: this particular part of the forum is called "coming soon and in development". let's guess what that means?



An excellent point Knilli.

As I re-read wg335910's post again, I have to admit that the phrase that confuses me most is highlighted below:

ORIGINAL: wg335910

"Is it just me? or are all of you discussing a product that is not available. And does not seem to be available for the near future. I have not seen any new release dates. Come to think of it, I haven't seen anything official about this product all this year. If the product is going to be delayed, say so. After all, I may be only one customer. But I'm sure there are many others out there scratching their heads. I have been a loyal customer for several years. If I am mis-understanding the situation, I apologize. If not, can someone tell me when this product is likely to be available. I believe I deserve at least that much. And finally, when all is said and done, this whole situation is making Mr. Grisby look bad. This company needs to address this immediately. Thank You"


Delayed? It is in Alpha (or maybe finally Beta this week ). How can anyone imply that a game in Alpha that has never had a completion date announced can be delayed

(in reply to knilli)
Post #: 1134
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/23/2010 4:37:41 PM   
Schmart

 

Posts: 662
Joined: 9/13/2010
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Will the game have a human v human (non-pbem) mode for solitaire options?

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Post #: 1135
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/23/2010 4:54:09 PM   
SGHunt


Posts: 873
Joined: 1/20/2010
From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline 		Yes

(in reply to Schmart)
Post #: 1136
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/28/2010 4:38:55 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		It seems to me that the admin points system could be a major bottleneck in getting a player's forces into the fight.  Is this something a real theatre commander would have to deal with, to this level of constriction?

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Post #: 1137
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/28/2010 5:38:18 AM   
Graycompany


Posts: 511
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wg335910

Is it just me? or are all of you discussing a product that is not available. And does not seem to be available for the near future. I have not seen any new release dates. Come to think of it, I haven't seen anything official about this product all this year. If the product is going to be delayed, say so. After all, I may be only one customer. But I'm sure there are many others out there scratching their heads. I have been a loyal customer for several years. If I am mis-understanding the situation, I apologize. If not, can someone tell me when this product is likely to be available. I believe I deserve at least that much. And finally, when all is said and done, this whole situation is making Mr. Grisby look bad. This company needs to address this immediately. Thank You.



Pretty much just you.

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Post #: 1138
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/28/2010 9:55:33 AM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

It seems to me that the admin points system could be a major bottleneck in getting a player's forces into the fight.  Is this something a real theatre commander would have to deal with, to this level of constriction?


Why? According to beta testers it's not as initiative rolls in WbtS, but works rather like admin points in WitP. That concerns at least the Axis side, while the Sovjets also need those points for production purpose. Finding the right balance between a maximum of freedom, while, on the other hand, not blowing up Russian forces too much might be a challenge though and will become subject to arguments once WitE is released.

The one gripe I have about Gary's desing concepts is, that he wanted to attract casual gamers with his later releases. The WaW series was an epic fail from a grognard's perspective, WbtS had become a better game again, but wore out too fast due to restrictions, pace and lack of details. However, people still play Steel Panthers and WitP AE marks the pinnacle of wargaming. I hope 2by3 learned from this.

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Post #: 1139
RE: War in the East Q&A - 11/28/2010 12:53:41 PM   
jjax


Posts: 289
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline 		Maybe it's early morning fog, but please do not tell me this item from the product page is true
quote:


10 scenarios range in length from 10 turns to 25 turns


10 scenarios....very good, the longest scenario is 25 turns...not so much. Somehow I suspect it should be over 200.



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Post #: 1140
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