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Mac vs PC? - 9/2/2009 9:14:30 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline 		I never thought I'd ever ask the question but the attack at the Wargamer got me wondering, who here runs a Mac and is it a better computing experience than a PC?

What would it mean for PC gaming? Can Matrix games still be played?

What about transferring emails from Outlook over to the new system?

The latest 26" iMac is looking very nice.

Does anyone run Mac anti virus?
Post #: 1
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/2/2009 7:38:02 PM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		I don't think you can take a Mac seriously as a gaming PC unless you put bootcamp on it (then why not just run a PC?)
They also will not accept high end video cards so you cannot play the top end games either.
I think Mac has found it's niche with those who do photo/video/sound editing and those who do graphic design.
You can do some casual gaming on a Mac but I think even Apple would admit that the Mac is not a gaming platform and caters to a different crowd.
I would also have to think that since Macs are about 30% more expensive just because of the Apple logo that the cost benefit of using a Mac just to game on would be rather low.

If you want to game on a computer. Just build a PC.

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 2
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/2/2009 8:01:58 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		The guys that I know who have mac's all run some sort of WinXP layer for their games.   

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RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/3/2009 12:00:04 AM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline 		Macs are for people who just want to have a computer, but aren't computer savvy and don't feel like dealing with hardware.To me though, Macs are kind of pointless.PC's cost way less, and about viruses, all you have to do get a decent AV program(for free), after that, as long you aren't going XXX sites and downloading illegal stuff off the Internet, I guarantee you won't have to worry about viruses.

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Post #: 4
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/3/2009 1:13:50 AM   
killroyishere

 

Posts: 639
Joined: 4/23/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

Macs are for people who just want to have a computer, but aren't computer savvy and don't feel like dealing with hardware.To me though, Macs are kind of pointless.PC's cost way less, and about viruses, all you have to do get a decent AV program(for free), after that, as long you aren't going XXX sites and downloading illegal stuff off the Internet, I guarantee you won't have to worry about viruses.


I agree with Osprey stay away from porn and don't download pirated anything and the only chances you have of getting a virus will be the international ones that everybody gets the socalled worm viruses. Those are easily removed 99.9% of the time just by downloading a file and running it. Don't click on any links unless you really know the person posting them or unless they are official links. Don't open spam email and your life online will be mostly a good one.

(in reply to V22 Osprey)
Post #: 5
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/3/2009 1:17:21 AM   
benpark

 

Posts: 3884
Joined: 8/12/2002
Status: offline 		All PC games can be played in Bootcamp, be sure to get the best possible vid card for high end games (as you would for a regular PC). Switching back and forth isn't a big deal to me. Two computers in one.

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Post #: 6
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/3/2009 4:50:32 AM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		My entire family gets Macs. They plug right in, they work right away, intuitive, simple to use and they look great. You can watch videos, play music, do your internet, etc.

The PC belongs to me, because it does things that I want to do better. I need zombie killing power and I need to crush the Nazis and the Mac just doesn't do it.

< Message edited by carnifex -- 9/3/2009 4:51:18 AM >

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Post #: 7
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/3/2009 4:55:30 AM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

My entire family gets Macs. They plug right in, they work right away, intuitive, simple to use and they look great. You can watch videos, play music, do your internet, etc.


That's what their main purpose is., casual stuff.

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Post #: 8
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/3/2009 5:04:54 AM   
sabre1


Posts: 1928
Joined: 8/15/2001
From: CA
Status: offline 		Yep you just have to love the plug and play aspect of the Mac, but gaming belongs to the PC World.

There are a few viruses out there for the Mac.

(in reply to V22 Osprey)
Post #: 9
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/3/2009 12:29:43 PM   
CheddarLover74

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 8/15/2009
Status: offline 		I never found setting up and running the two PCs i have owned hard at all.

I'm no computer savant by a looong shot but they were easy enough to "plug and play" without even reading the directions.
The only problem i had was that i had to verify windows XP as a legitimate copy within so many days and at the time i didn't have an internet connection and wasn't getting one,though it became glaringly apparent that i had to get one for the games i was buying so i could get patches.Anyway I solved that problem by connecting the phone line and hitting verify i was suprised it worked but it seemed like a common sense thing to try.

The second one was even easier as it already had Vista installed and what not and all i had to do was turn it on.

The hardest thing i ever ran into was trying to get the Xbox360 hooked up and running to the same monitor as the computer as it can only have one plugged in at a time.Had to shell out 60 bucks for an accesory xbox cable and leave the tower on for it to work.

Nothing ever major though.


(in reply to sabre1)
Post #: 10
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/3/2009 4:15:42 PM   
jackx

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 7/8/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		For a stationary gaming solution, I don't see anything that a Mac could offer, other than stylish design at a high cost.

If you're going mobile, or semi-mobile (have the laptop, possibly in a docking station, on your desk quite a bit, but also take it with you quite frequently), and gaming is not the main/sole purpose, then a Mac might be a good option.

Best to check if the environment that you're going to use it in is Mac-friendly, though, or stock up on the appropriate adapters and such. There's nothing quite like plug and fail when you're about to give a presentation in front of a full auditorium...



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Post #: 11
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/3/2009 5:30:52 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

I never thought I'd ever ask the question but the attack at the Wargamer got me wondering, who here runs a Mac and is it a better computing experience than a PC?

What would it mean for PC gaming? Can Matrix games still be played?

What about transferring emails from Outlook over to the new system?

The latest 26" iMac is looking very nice.

Does anyone run Mac anti virus?


I wouldn't say it's better......since to have a full selection you have to pretty much run Windows under Bootcamp. I have a small Mac laptop that i use for my work on War in the Pacific which is a PC only app. No issues. The only thing "better" about it over my old PC laptop is the mac is more portable and has more memory and a faster processor. Mainly its about the portability. Those old Alienware laptops are BRICKS.

If you run Windows (bootcamp) you'll need a PC based anti-virus. Have not tried a OS-X anti virus yet though as I keep warning the GF unit (who uses only Mac's......being a Graphic arts student), that sooner or later she'll need one. As Mac's get more and more popular, you can be sure that there will be more virus's written for them. Don't be fooled by the commericals. Mac's are not virus proof anymore than they are trouble free.



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Post #: 12
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/3/2009 6:01:34 PM   
AttuWatcher

 

Posts: 489
Joined: 6/25/2009
From: Hex 181, 36
Status: offline 		If you want mid / high end gaming performance (or specs that will actually last for more than a year or two before being completely out of date, or are picky about your specs in any way really) expect to pay anywhere from 30-60% more $ for a mac as opposed to building your own PC or buying a cheaper gaming-oriented PC.

I have a PC and a macbook. The macbook is only for schoolwork and travel. For everything else the PC is much better and much cheaper.

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 13
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/3/2009 6:56:34 PM   
E

 

Posts: 1247
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

That's what their main purpose is., casual stuff.

In actuality, casual users are a secondary market. Their primary market/use is professionals (audio, video, business, schools, etc). Which may also help to explain their seeming price differential.

(in reply to V22 Osprey)
Post #: 14
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/3/2009 7:57:11 PM   
ijontichy


Posts: 68
Joined: 10/10/2006
Status: offline 		Neither, I use Linux. Well, actually, I dual-boot Windows and Linux. Windows for games, and Linux for everything else. It suits me to a tee.

(in reply to E)
Post #: 15
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/3/2009 10:21:10 PM   
killroyishere

 

Posts: 639
Joined: 4/23/2008
Status: offline 		But, can you build a Mac from scratch?

(in reply to ijontichy)
Post #: 16
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/3/2009 11:40:21 PM   
mgarnett

 

Posts: 270
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I use a PC as my desktop machine and a Macbook Pro for the laptop. I play my graphics intensive games (flight sims) on the PC and I have installed Parallels on the Mac that allows me to play my war games. I also do software development on the Mac in both OS X and Windows. Parallels has a coherence mode which basically means that my PC war games play straight on the mac desktop. The Windows start menu sits on the Mac doc so you can access all of your Windows programs without actually having to see the Windows desktop. If you do in fact want to go to the Windows desktop, you can see ll of your Mac application on the Windows desktop as well.

I think Apple make great laptops, but I would not buy one for a desktop PC because they just aren't that expandable in terms of video cards and HDD storage.

Day to day web surfing, mail, word processing is done in OS X on the Mac. I did have boot camp installed at one point but I didn't like having to reboot to use Windows. Parallels is a great solution and I have not noticed any speed degradation with the war games I play. There is even an OS X version of Dosbox with a front end called Boxer which allows my to play all of my old DOS games in naive OS X as well.

Cheers

Mark

(in reply to killroyishere)
Post #: 17
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/4/2009 1:51:34 AM   
AttuWatcher

 

Posts: 489
Joined: 6/25/2009
From: Hex 181, 36
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mgarnett
I think Apple make great laptops, but I would not buy one for a desktop


+1

that pretty much sums it up.

(in reply to mgarnett)
Post #: 18
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/4/2009 1:56:58 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: benpark

All PC games can be played in Bootcamp,




I thought you need to purchase a copy of Windows and install it on the MAC ??

-


(in reply to benpark)
Post #: 19
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/4/2009 2:08:43 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		Do Bootcamp and or Parallels come free with a MAC ?

Do you need to install Windows over the top to playb wargames?

-

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 20
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/4/2009 2:27:29 AM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline 		Mac laptops are good, but even still you can get a laptop that can play Crysis at max settings for the same price.Macbooks are only think that even come close to price of PCs.

Comparison:

MSI GT279

$1300

Mobility 4850
Duo 2.4 with turbo mode that automatically overclocks to 2.93
320 GB HDD
1600 res screen.

Macbook Pro:

$1500

9400M(Ok, come on now, that is the low power integrated graphics card on the Alienware M17x.That's sad.)
2.53 Ghz Processor
320 GB HDD

So, the macbook pros I would consider, but the Mac desktops I won't even bother.$2500 base price.You get a quad core processor, 640 GB HDD, 3 GB of RAM, and sucky GT 120M.We all know I get could a machine that rapes that system easily anyday of the week for half the cost.$1500 I can have a Core i7, Blu ray drive, Dual Graphics cards, 500 GB AND Liquid Cooling.

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Post #: 21
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/4/2009 10:50:22 AM   
Mafi


Posts: 335
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Beside all the arguments arising here versus Mac,
I must confess that for me it is the sole platform I'm using
for gaming, coding, artwork, hardware-driving
(example: http://www.sdl.claranet.de/ ),
some casual stuff, video-cutting, sound-works
and PC-emulating
since ... 1994.
It has its limitations. mainly
- no driver support from some minor, but essential hardware manufacturers,
- reduced number of games,
- disappearing backward compatibility since the introduction of Intel-processors to the Mac (I'm really missing those PPCs.

But despite all that, I will never return to the PC platform anymore for my private ambitions. Due to driver-hardware problems I'm fixed to a Win98-system at work. Sad enough.

Mafi

(in reply to V22 Osprey)
Post #: 22
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/4/2009 11:52:33 AM   
mgarnett

 

Posts: 270
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

9400M(Ok, come on now, that is the low power integrated graphics card on the Alienware M17x.That's sad.)


The Macbook Pro comes with two graphics cards, 9400M (low power consumption) and a 9600GT M (high performance).

Cheers

Mark

(in reply to Mafi)
Post #: 23
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/4/2009 12:08:33 PM   
mgarnett

 

Posts: 270
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Do Bootcamp and or Parallels come free with a MAC ?

Do you need to install Windows over the top to playb wargames?


Bootcamp is free with every Mac and Parallels is about $50 (I think, I'm in Australia and it's $80 in our currency)

Yes, you still need to install Windows although Bootcamp and Parallels work in different ways.

Bootcamp is basically a boot menu that allows you to boot into either OS X or Windows and run everything natively. So if you are in Windows it's exactly the same as being on a normal PC, and in OS X, well it's a Mac. The up side is that everything runs at full speed. The downside, is that to get into the other OS, you have to reboot.

Parallels is a virtual machine environment that can run many different OS's, Windows included. So, all I need to do is boot my machine into OS X, and if I want windows, I click my little Windows XP icon and after a few short seconds, I have Windows and OS X running side by side. Now, you won't be running Crysis in a VM, but as far as war games go, you will have no problems. It will run Direct3D games and I know many people who play Word of Warcraft in Parallels and have no problems at all. I also do quite a bit of software development in Windows and I don't notice any speed difference at all for that either. I run almost all of my Matrix, AGEOD and HPS games in Parallels and I have not noticed any speed problems, nor have I had any problems and I own about 20 of these games. Also, Parallels can run in a few different modes, including full screen and coherence. When running full screen all you see is Windows and anybody who came along would not know any difference and think you were running a PC. Coherence means that your Windows apps run on your Mac desktop which is really cool. I run my HPS games this way and it's great.

Another great thing is the glass mouse pad on the Apple laptops. It's super smooth and has enough functionality that I never have to click the mouse button at all (actually the mouse button is the pad itself, it clicks, there are no separate buttons) , everything is available through tapping or gestures.

I was very anti-Mac, but after using one of their laptops I would be reluctant to go back to a PC type machine. It's is a very well engineered machine.

Cheers

Mark

(in reply to mgarnett)
Post #: 24
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/4/2009 1:07:11 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline 		Mac and Mac OS rules, basta.

I will never get back to the Windows world for my pro and casual needs. Macs do no cost much more then comparable PCs of same built quality (!), in fact when I switched to Mac it was the price I would have had to pay for a Windows workstation compared to the Mac Pro that made me do the switch. I saved a lot of money. The OS does not get in the way of my daily workflow. That is a major time saver for me. Mac OS is not hazzle free of course, but you rarely dig into any real problems. And I can still use Windows if I want. Pretty hard the other way around.

For gaming I switch over to Bootcamp.

I recently bought a new Macbook pro 12", dumping my old Macbook. The new thing just rocks, dead silent, usability through ergonomics are almost perfect and with (real) 6 hours battery life. Recharges in no time and sleep mode actually works on Mac laptops

But, if you want to game high end games I would not really recommend an iMac. I would rather buy a Mac Pro desktop system for that. For current wargaming needs an iMac works.

Bootcamp ia native Mac OS app and come with the software. Parallels is third party software (there is other virtual Os software also) and costs around 50$. Often it is bundled with a Mac if you not buy directly at Apple.

Whenever you buy a Mac directly at Apple do not fill it with the Apple RAM or HDs, very overpriced. Instead just have it put in the minimal RAM and HD and buy third party quality RAM and HDs, saves a lot of money

< Message edited by Marc von Martial -- 9/4/2009 1:11:29 PM >

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Post #: 25
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/4/2009 2:55:14 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Apple produces well designed and foolproofed systems, but in return they deprive user control over hard- and software and let the customer pay extra for stuff he could fix for himself or get cheaper by using a PC. This kind of business policy applied when I *had* to use a Mac, as it was the solely platform to run publishing software like QuarkXPress and still does, given the fact, that Iphone has a non-interchangeable battery and requires i-tune, while a PC user can simply download at youtube.


< Message edited by Lützow -- 9/4/2009 2:57:51 PM >

(in reply to Marc von Martial)
Post #: 26
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/4/2009 4:42:43 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline 		You can fix a lot yourself, you just need to know where to look, same with a PC . Spareparts are available. Many Apple resellers give you a warranty extension for a few bucks. Apple Care Protection is overpriced as are many addons if you buy them directly from the Apple Store.

You can fix a lot of OS / software issues via Terminal, again like with a PC you just need to know where to look. In fact I find the general support of what you can tinker with in the OS way better then with Windows. And the information you can find on the internet is usually not as confusing as with Windows.

Third party services change iphone / ipod batteries for a low price. You can even do it yourself. Of course you loose the warranty, but then again you also would with PC parts if you fiddle with them yourself. On top of that I never had to replace any battery for my iphone or ipod. I had to replace my Nokia's battery twice though

The iPhone does not require iTunes, there is third party software for syncing available. Granted lot of it does need to be updated for the iPhone OS 3 by now, but that is up to the developers.

> while a PC user can simply download at youtube

Sorry I do not follow you there?


< Message edited by Marc von Martial -- 9/4/2009 4:45:01 PM >

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Post #: 27
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/4/2009 8:15:46 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Around 1991 I owned a i486 for office work and gaming, and a Mac IIfx for Desktop Publishing. The Apple rig was about fourfold in price and due to it's architecture one couldn't easily switch hardware devices, like graphic board or processor, but had to call on service for every intervention. While OS 7 has been more stable than Windows 3, it did not let you interfere with programs as Norton Utilies / PCTools, or simple editing of .ini files. I don't know if or how this has changed, but back to the day the whole philosophy of Apple was, to keep control of their already expensive systems in order to subsequently charge customers for everything an ambitious user could do for himself.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc von Martial

> while a PC user can simply download at youtube

Sorry I do not follow you there?


You can legally download music videos from youtube by using Firefox browser plugin.

< Message edited by Lützow -- 9/4/2009 8:17:39 PM >

(in reply to Marc von Martial)
Post #: 28
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/5/2009 2:51:55 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc von Martial

I will never get back to the Windows world for my pro and casual needs. Macs do no cost much more then comparable PCs of same built quality (!), in fact when I switched to Mac it was the price I would have had to pay for a Windows workstation compared to the Mac Pro that made me do the switch. I saved a lot of money. The OS does not get in the way of my daily workflow. That is a major time saver for me. Mac OS is not hazzle free of course, but you rarely dig into any real problems. And I can still use Windows if I want. Pretty hard the other way around.

For gaming I switch over to Bootcamp.


Marc that is a superb post - thanks. I really am liking the looks of the new iMac's and Mac Pro's. I can see no price differential between macs and high end PC's now.

I just want something that is simple, safe, inuitive and powerful. I can easily see myself running Adobe on a Mac, Mac versions of MS Office and all the Mac specific video and sound editing programs rather than having to fork out for separate editing and burning programs.

How exactly does bootcamp work then? Do you have to have XP loaded on the Mac? Is this a special XP version? And if it's XP, why isn't the system vulnerable to Windows viruses etc?

Another dumb question, does a Mac run Windows Media files?

Cheers mate,
Adam.

(in reply to Marc von Martial)
Post #: 29
RE: Mac vs PC? - 9/5/2009 10:04:58 AM   
Noypi53

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 8/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc von Martial

I will never get back to the Windows world for my pro and casual needs. Macs do no cost much more then comparable PCs of same built quality (!), in fact when I switched to Mac it was the price I would have had to pay for a Windows workstation compared to the Mac Pro that made me do the switch. I saved a lot of money. The OS does not get in the way of my daily workflow. That is a major time saver for me. Mac OS is not hazzle free of course, but you rarely dig into any real problems. And I can still use Windows if I want. Pretty hard the other way around.

For gaming I switch over to Bootcamp.


Marc that is a superb post - thanks. I really am liking the looks of the new iMac's and Mac Pro's. I can see no price differential between macs and high end PC's now.

I just want something that is simple, safe, inuitive and powerful. I can easily see myself running Adobe on a Mac, Mac versions of MS Office and all the Mac specific video and sound editing programs rather than having to fork out for separate editing and burning programs.

How exactly does bootcamp work then? Do you have to have XP loaded on the Mac? Is this a special XP version? And if it's XP, why isn't the system vulnerable to Windows viruses etc?

Another dumb question, does a Mac run Windows Media files?

Cheers mate,
Adam.


Hi Adam, I won't go into the + or - of Mac vs PC as it comes down to personal choice & need. I am a 1-year Windows > Mac user myself.

To use Bootcamp, you need to create a disk partition in your Mac HD. The Mac Bootcamp install program will guide you thru this. Once the partition is ready for Win XP, you need to install Win Xp using (of course) a legal copy of Win XP. There is no special XP version. I have read of guys successfully installing Vista & even Windows 7 but have not done it myself.

Unfortunately, your Win XP partition WILL be vulnerable to Windows viruses, malware, etc. That's why you still need your anti-everything software on your Windows XP. I suspect that my Mac has Window viruses but is not affected, YET. If you do send a file from your Mac to a Windows user, that file may have a Windows virus. That is what I read in some of the Mac blogs / user group posts.

My wife has been using a Mac much longer than I have & has not received any notes from her Windows-using friends of files with virus. Of course, she does not go to some of the more (ahem) sites that are a common source of these viruses.

NOTE: At the basic level, you do have to reboot from Mac OS X to BootCamp to use Win XP. There are Mac software that will allow you to run the Windows program in your BootCamp partition without having to reboot but you will have to shell out a few $$ for the software.

MP3 files run in Macs while there are free software like VLC which will run most Windows media files if you mean AVI files.

Other guys on the board may have more Mac experience can chime in if they want. The above is my 1-year experience with the Mac.

For me, the ultimate test for my Mac is when Dragon Age comes out & I try to run it on my Mac's BootCamp.

Cheers!
Noypi


(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 30
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