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RE: Halt the Spanking Already! - 11/13/2009 2:35:52 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
6.  If I come out on the losing end of a carrier battle in the New Hebrides, please send a mental health professional my way.

How're ya holding out, reb?



*ack*


(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 331
Bethel Church Wrap Up - 11/13/2009 2:51:58 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Miller and I got in about five or six two-day turns yesterday with most of my attention was given to the shock and awe that occurred in connection with Operation Bethel Church, the invasion of Luganville.  Here is a wrap up of Bethel Church as of July 10, 1942.  I'll post more "what went on elsewhere" later today.

1.  The Allies took Luganville on July 8.  So...the operation was a success, right?!
2.  I haven't actually tallied the ship losses yet, but here is a breakdown:
   A.  Combat Ships
        1)  Allies lose three CVs (Saratoga, Enterprise, Yorktown), BB New Mexico, a CA, and a handful of DDs.
        2)  Japanese lose a CV (Junyo), CVL (Shoho) and a few DDs.
   B.  Non-Combat Ships - Allies lost alot of transports.  Guestimate would be 30-40.
3.  Damaged Ships:
   A.  Allies - Only Lexington (with moderate damage) is noteworthy on the Allied side.
   B.  Japanese - Quite a few capital ships received heavy damage, including several BBs.  Two CAs took single    torpedo hits in surface action at Luganville on the 8th.  (In that battle the Japanese lost two DDs and the Allies four).
4.  Aircraft:
   A.  Allies - Losses amounted to about 150 aircraft.
   B.  Japanese - Losses amounted to something over 300 aircraft.
5.  Men:
   A.  Allies - Lost one Marine regiment and a few small support units (a small base force and a SeaBee unit) - their transports were destroyed at sea.
   B.  Japanese - Lost the Luganville garrison (I suppose) - two Naval Guard units and two base forces.
6.  Tactical Situation
   A.  Allies - Gain control of Luganville.  From there it should be possible and relatively safe to build up the islands immediately to the north.
   B.  Japanese - Lunga becomes the forward Japanese base in this region.
7.  Strategic Situation
   A.  Allies - Loss of carriers puts a halt on major Allied operations for the foreseeable future.  Allies will have to concentrate on safer advances - step-by-step moves from one base to the next.  This is possible north of Luganville and perhaps north of Oz where there are some islands.  This may also put a halt to Operation Port Royal unless two things occur:  (A) the Japanese leave NoPac underguarded; and (B) Miller commits his carriers far way (the Solomons, New Guinea, etc.) giving me a window to strike with what few carriers I'll have available providing air support.
   B.  Japanese - Loss of pilots and damage to capital ships should keep Miller from getting too frisky in the short term; but he also has bought himself time to (A) replace and train pilots; (B) repair ships; and (C) organize some strikes at exposed forward bases - Canton Island and Midway come to mind.

In the war to date, the Allies have lost four fleet carriers and a CVL; the Japanese have lost two fleet carriers and two CVLs.

The war at this point is also very close to the real war - the only Japanese gain beyond historic territory would be Port Moresby/Gili Gili (with the notable and troublesome exception of China). There won't be an Operation Watchtower on the historic timetable, however, so I'll fall behind the historic timetable in that regard.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 11/13/2009 3:00:45 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 332
RE: Bethel Church Wrap Up - 11/13/2009 3:06:24 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Don't forget the NG route.

I like to use the higher fighter xp carriers (Enterprise and Yorktown) for cap (60% or higher) and use the lower xp ones (Hornet, Wasp) for escort duties.

It's amazing that reaction moves have been forking up plans since UV and it's still part of the game.

BTW, you lose any good admirals?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 333
RE: Bethel Church Wrap Up - 11/13/2009 3:12:19 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, I *thought* react had been fixed.  I know better now and will resort to putting carriers into Escort TFs to avoid reaction - just as I did in WitP. 

I didn't notice any significant leaders losses, but ten turns in one day with a major battle and lots of information flying by on the screen...well, things may have slipped my notice.

But the ships that were escorting the American carriers are in pretty good shape.  Very few took any damage.  My surface combat power is fine.

New Guinea is what I was referring to - well, both New Guines and some of the islands north of Darwin.  I've been building up Coen for weeks and have an American base force on the way to Portland Roads (the unit is just about to disembark at Brisbane).

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 334
RE: Bethel Church Wrap Up - 11/13/2009 4:27:00 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

6. If I come out on the losing end of a carrier battle in the New Hebrides, please send a mental health professional my way.


I have some extra time available until January when John gets home.

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Post #: 335
RE: Bethel Church Wrap Up - 11/13/2009 5:05:19 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
quote:

6. If I come out on the losing end of a carrier battle in the New Hebrides, please send a mental health professional my way.

I have some extra time available until January when John gets home.


I thought of you, naturally, when I posted that note, Michael.

I was pretty low after that battle. It takes awhile to come to grips with a major loss and to adjust to new realities imposed by a dimished force. I'm not there yet, but I'm working on it.

By the way, I don't even remotely think that auto-victory is a factor in this game. The score is 20k to 10k. Other than China, Miller isn't going to go much further and I don't think any of my high value bases are at risk.

Thinking a few random thoughts:

I am still gathering ships and troops at Seattle for Operation Port Royal. I should have enough APs though I can't be certain until I take closer stock of what I lost at Luganville. I *think* I can create enough noise and enough of a threat in New Guinea and the Solomons to persuade Miller to post his carriers in the region. If I can, then Port Royal would be okay to proceed.

I think one or both of the RN carriers are due to be withdrawn fairly soon, however.

Indomitable, the carrier damaged in the Battle of Java way back in April '42 is due for withdrawal in ten days. She's two days out of Capetown after making the long, long journey from Perth.

Ramillies, the BB recently hit by six TTs (five aircraft, one sub) near Port Blair actually made port in Madras and will be fine barring a sub attack when I eventually move her to Colombo or Karachi.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 11/13/2009 5:06:04 PM >

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Post #: 336
RE: Bethel Church Wrap Up - 11/13/2009 5:27:52 PM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		Operation Port Royal - While there is a part of me that is in favor or this operation, my OCD-ness comes up with the need to meet follow up logistic requirements once Miller is aware of it and make his counter moves. I would be flooding the area with subs and make your transports have to run over them to get any follow up forces and supplies there. Now that your carrier forces has been hit hard, how do you plan to maintain your troops up north??

FYI - I'm waiting for patch 2 to come out before responding to John's latest letter about potential offensive moves in a future PBEM game (I'm going to include the list of changes). Needless to say, his flair for bold moves has not changed while he bakes bread in the county jail.  I cannot furnish more information on potential plans as I'm part of the General Staff again and sworn to secrecy. He may want to use them against you if you two start another game.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 337
RE: Bethel Church Wrap Up - 11/13/2009 6:56:51 PM   
Cathartes

 

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quote:

Yeah, I *thought* react had been fixed.  I know better now and will resort to putting carriers into Escort TFs to avoid reaction - just as I did in WitP. 

As an Air Combat TF, what was your react range set to?  Did you have a particularly aggressive TF leader?


(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 338
RE: Bethel Church Wrap Up - 11/13/2009 7:12:50 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		React range 0; commanders weren't aggressive.  Typical WitP/UV reaction against orders with major consequences.  We're eight months into the game.  This game is magnificent and will satisfy me for the remainder of my gaming days as long as there are faithful opponents who don't mind whipping me from time to time.  I've seen just two things thus far that require attention (three if you count getting rid of "react" for carrier TFs, but I've been asking for that forever and apparently the God of Reaction in his omniscience thinks it is a desireable feature).  The two things that require attention (or firm House Rules) to prevent the game from breaking:

1.  Eliminate Artillery Death Stars or their potency.
2.  Reduce Japan's ability to completely destroy Chinese supply by destroying every single strategic target in the first eight months of the game before the Allies have the kind of fighters that can halt it.

In my game, Miller is using waves of bombers to wipe out all strategic targets.  About all I have left is Chungking.  The Chinese can't offer fighter protection for many reasons:  low quality pilots; low quality planes; if you move your fighters to forward bases the Japanese will either shoot them down or bomb the base to oblivion; disabled fighters cannot become airworthy due to no supplies and no ability to repair airfields; very little strategic movement option in China. 

I have used the AVG and some Hurricanes.  The AVG is too few and the Hurricanes too short-legged.  Plus, these squadrons also get disabled and then stuck at the airbase that has no supply.

I'm sounding like a broken record, but China is a mess.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 11/13/2009 7:14:42 PM >

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RE: Bethel Church Wrap Up - 11/13/2009 7:43:10 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Operation Port Royal - While there is a part of me that is in favor or this operation, my OCD-ness comes up with the need to meet follow up logistic requirements once Miller is aware of it and make his counter moves. I would be flooding the area with subs and make your transports have to run over them to get any follow up forces and supplies there. Now that your carrier forces has been hit hard, how do you plan to maintain your troops up north??

FYI - I'm waiting for patch 2 to come out before responding to John's latest letter about potential offensive moves in a future PBEM game (I'm going to include the list of changes). Needless to say, his flair for bold moves has not changed while he bakes bread in the county jail.  I cannot furnish more information on potential plans as I'm part of the General Staff again and sworn to secrecy. He may want to use them against you if you two start another game.


Michael, that's an important consideration that factors into the decision of whether or not to proceed. I would intend Port Royal to work this way:

1. Bases (Onnekotan and Paramushio) underguarded. This means the Allies should quickly take each base.
2. The operation is intended to be a surprise - if it isn't I shouldn't do it. If it is I should have some time to unload supplies. I would bring a heck of alot of supplies with me.
3. Get the airbases up and running.
4. Winter (Arctic) conditions would soon severely hamper aircraft activity in the region, minimizing the threat from Japanese carriers (I think).
5. I will bring CD units and artillery, which would pose a serious threat when the Japanese counter-invade (which I am sure Miller will do).
6. Allied troops and airbases here pose a big threat to the Japanese - not only in and of themselves, but Miller has to worry that the Allies will next aim for Toyohara and Shikuka. Is there any doubt that Miller will shift a great deal of his assets here - planes, ships, and men?
7. In fact, I don't intend on going any further. Having the Japanese focus up here for awhile should reduce their assets wherever the Allies do go on the offensive.

As the shock of the recent carrier battle wears off over the next few days, I'll reevaluate this plan.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 340
RE: Bethel Church Wrap Up - 11/13/2009 7:50:44 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Sorry to just scattershoot a bunch of questions.

Any ideas which fighter models you're going to use? Will you have 38s by then? Do you have the replacement frames to handle the expected combat? 20k in supplies may be difficult to maintain. I'd read up on the ac replacement routine, unless I have 20k at the base I still don't understand it.

As always, enjoying the aar.


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 341
RE: Bethel Church Wrap Up - 11/13/2009 10:12:30 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Operation Port Royal - While there is a part of me that is in favor or this operation, my OCD-ness comes up with the need to meet follow up logistic requirements once Miller is aware of it and make his counter moves. I would be flooding the area with subs and make your transports have to run over them to get any follow up forces and supplies there. Now that your carrier forces has been hit hard, how do you plan to maintain your troops up north??

FYI - I'm waiting for patch 2 to come out before responding to John's latest letter about potential offensive moves in a future PBEM game (I'm going to include the list of changes). Needless to say, his flair for bold moves has not changed while he bakes bread in the county jail.  I cannot furnish more information on potential plans as I'm part of the General Staff again and sworn to secrecy. He may want to use them against you if you two start another game.


Michael, that's an important consideration that factors into the decision of whether or not to proceed. I would intend Port Royal to work this way:

1. Bases (Onnekotan and Paramushio) underguarded. This means the Allies should quickly take each base.
2. The operation is intended to be a surprise - if it isn't I shouldn't do it. If it is I should have some time to unload supplies. I would bring a heck of alot of supplies with me.
3. Get the airbases up and running.
4. Winter (Arctic) conditions would soon severely hamper aircraft activity in the region, minimizing the threat from Japanese carriers (I think).
5. I will bring CD units and artillery, which would pose a serious threat when the Japanese counter-invade (which I am sure Miller will do).
6. Allied troops and airbases here pose a big threat to the Japanese - not only in and of themselves, but Miller has to worry that the Allies will next aim for Toyohara and Shikuka. Is there any doubt that Miller will shift a great deal of his assets here - planes, ships, and men?
7. In fact, I don't intend on going any further. Having the Japanese focus up here for awhile should reduce their assets wherever the Allies do go on the offensive.

As the shock of the recent carrier battle wears off over the next few days, I'll reevaluate this plan.


And bring along lots of mines, a bit harder to do in AE.

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 342
Meanwhile, back at the ranch... - 11/14/2009 1:39:11 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		6/29/42 to 7/12/42
 
Wow, two weeks have passed since my last post about anything other than the Battle of the New Hebrides.  Things have been pretty quiet, but it's time for an update.  Also, while out for a nice gasping "run" up Lavender Mountain on a gorgeous autumn afternoon, I turned my sulky thoughts to "what do the Allies do next?"  I came up with a sufficiently complicated and intriguing plan that I can chew on for weeks.

NoPac:  An infantry detachment and engineers landed at Attu Island, so the Allies now have troops at all the major bases.  In my WitP game with Miller, neither of us did a thing in NoPac.  Same holds true for Miller in this game - not a sign of him snooping around the Aluetians.  No planes, no ships, no subs, no excursions, nada.  So to my knowledge he is unaware of the Allied military presence and activity.  Do you guys think a Japanese player would use his cursor and detect increased in port/airfield levels?  If so, my attempt at stealth is probably stillborn.

CenPac:  Things are satisfyingly quiet.  I'm going to send two infantry detachments (small units garrisoning Hilo and another base) to Canton Island to bring the defenses up to about 6,000 men.  No subs or other enemy activity in my area for weeks or months.

SoPac:  Quiet here, too, with the notable exception of the Battle of New Hebrides.  The Allies added a base force and engineers to Savaii (near Pago Pago) and landed a CD force at Wallis Islands.  The Fun-and-Fruity island chain just to the north is Japanese owned but appears to be worthless militarily - all three are level 0 ports.  I may send some ships to look around and put together a small invasion force to take one or more if any appear empty.  Just to draw Miller's attention.

SWPac:  Allied engineers are working on the airfield at Coen, which will reach level one in a day or two.  More engineers are on the way to Portland Roads, but won't arrive for weeks probably.  I'm going to move a combat TF to Townsville and pay some visits to Port Moresby and/or Gili Gili.  I want to undertake some threatening activities in this area to draw Miller's attention here.

DEI:  Miller hasn't taken Lautem yet, but that can't last much longer.

India:  After taking six torpedoes, BB Ramilles somehow made Madras.  When things stabalize I'll move her to Colombo.

Burma:  Miller had 11 or 12 units adjacent to Schewbo.  I eventually concluded I couldn't hold the base with 450 rag-tag AV, and decided I could put those troops to better use elsewhere.  So I moved them out just ahead of the Japanese troops arriving.  Most of these guys go to Cox's Bazaar and Akyab.  Miller is bombing the fool out of Akyab at the moment.  I have a P-38 squadron training at Calcutta.  It began at 40 and is up to 47.  When it reaches 50, I'll use them or perhaps move them to China.

China:  As if my woes weren't already bad enough, I had to withdraw the AVG (the deadline was something like July 7).  All I have left in China are three Hurricane squadrons and a few pathetic Chinese fighter groups.  I haven't detected any advance by Miller out of toward either Nanyang or Sian.  A 350-AV unit arrives in Sian shortly.  Nice, but I've advised them not to expect any food this year.

Post-Battle Plans:  Okay, I mentioned I've developed a complicated and dazzling plan guaranteed to drive Miller to his knees.  I'll post details later, but right now I need to get a bowl of ice cream to work off that run up the mountain.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 11/14/2009 1:40:38 AM >

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 343
RE: Meanwhile, back at the ranch... - 11/14/2009 1:47:16 AM   
erstad

 

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quote:

Do you guys think a Japanese player would use his cursor and detect increased in port/airfield leves?


These show up in the Tracker alerts even if one doesn't go searching.

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Post #: 344
RE: Meanwhile, back at the ranch... - 11/14/2009 2:04:47 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		*ack*  Then my notion of surprise is stillborn (assuming Miller uses Tracker).  Thanks, erstad.  You may be saving me from a major blunder.

(in reply to erstad)
Post #: 345
RE: Meanwhile, back at the ranch... - 11/14/2009 4:30:37 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
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Status: offline 		NoPac:  An infantry detachment and engineers landed at Attu Island, so the Allies now have troops at all the major bases.  In my WitP game with Miller, neither of us did a thing in NoPac.  Same holds true for Miller in this game - not a sign of him snooping around the Aluetians.  No planes, no ships, no subs, no excursions, nada.  So to my knowledge he is unaware of the Allied military presence and activity.  Do you guys think a Japanese player would use his cursor and detect increased in port/airfield levels?  If so, my attempt at stealth is probably stillborn.

Why build up any bases except Dutch Harbour & Unmak? These can be seen as defensive positions.

I would guess you want NavSearch, this can be done from an AV/AVD without building bases and maybe show Miller you are concerned about a Northern push from him.


_____________________________

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 346
RE: Meanwhile, back at the ranch... - 11/14/2009 3:41:00 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Time for a word about Allied plans for the foreseeable future.

Having lost the recent carrier battle, the Allies want to pre-position troops to take advantage of opportunities. Also, I want the pre-positioning to occur in places far from each other so that if the Japanese react strongly to a move in one area, the Allies can exploit a void in the other. With that in mind:

A. Operation Port Royal: The Allies will continue to assemble forces necessary for an invasion of Paramushiro and Onnekotan. Most of the troops are in place at Seattle with prep as high as 60%. I still need to evaluate lift capacity (APs and xAPs primarily) to make sure I have enough to handle lift requirements. I have BBs in place to handle bombardment (primarily to shut down Paramushiro's airfield). I need some carriers/escort carriers to assist with protection from enemy air strikes.

B. Operation Winchester: Relatively low risk build-up of islands north of Luganville with good base potential - primarily Vana Lueva and Ndeni to create at least the appearance of menace to the Solomons from this direction.

C. Operation Ocean Pond: Employment of assets in the northwestern Coral Sea to give appearance of growing threat to Port Moresby and New Guinea. To include: build up of Cooktown, Coen, and Portland Roads, slightly increase Horn Island garrison, use of combat TF to occasionally raid New Guinea; eventual use of reconnaisance and bomber raids. These activities to grow in intensity as the need for a diversion increases to assist with Port Royal or the following operation.

D. Operation Spotsylvania: The target is Timor. Currently, Miller doesn't seem to be giving this important island much attention. The Allies still hold Lautem and Dili and B-17 raids from Darwin to Koepang aren't encountering any fighters. This situation probably won't last, but I'm going to do some planning and prepare for major action in case Miller continues to dally. Major plan components:
1. Aussie troops to be responsible for Lautem/Dili and Allied held islands to the NE that have good base potential; British and Indian troops assigned to Koepang and the adjacent island of Rota.
2. Most Aussie troops already assigned and moving to Perth. I will begin air transport of reinforcements and supplies to Lautem immediately.
3. British/Indian troops were assigned their targets about a week ago. Some are at Colombo, most are heading from Madras to Bombay. These will board transports and move south and east to Perth.
4. Coming up with enough transports to handle these troops will be a challenge. If the situation on Timor remains the same (unlikely, but if...) priority will be given to the troops needed to invade Koepang. As long as the Allies currently hold Lautem, I can move troops there much more easily and surreptitiously.

If the Allies are able to position forces for both the Paramushiro and Timor operations, then triggering either one should result in a violent reaction by the Japanese including commitment of carriers. That would then create a vaccuum at the other end of the map, permitting the other to proceed with a threat of less opposition.

I would first ramp up activity in the Coral Sea when and if it would add to Japanese confusion about Allied intentions.

I don't expect the Japanese to remain static, so these plans are subject to change at a moment's notice. For now, I will concentrate on moving ships and men to get things ready to go if I should find the circumstances advantageous.


< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 11/14/2009 3:43:47 PM >

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 347
RE: Meanwhile, back at the ranch... - 11/15/2009 12:34:15 AM   
aprezto


Posts: 824
Joined: 1/29/2009
Status: offline 		Hi Canoerebel;

Fantastic and detailed AAR. Excellent coverage of the drama, euphoria and heartache this game can supply.

I just want to introduce a word of caution into your forthright musings. It is my opinion that you are trying a little too much too early:

Kuriles
Santa Cruz Islands AND Ndini
threatening PM and building Horn Island
Timor
plus others

I 'think' your approach is to prep for all of these targets and then gather intelligence on which is the best target 'while' conducting harrassment and anti-supply raids on Jap bases. My opinion (again with the opinion) is that this is spreading what you have too thin to do justice to any one of these operations.

I think early war allied operations need to bring in everything you've got. It appears that you have lots of assets but the opposition still does too, and as someone else pointed out, when you take such places as Timor and Kurile Islands, the Japanese WILL lose if they don't oppose you most vigorously. When they do so you are almost guaranteed to eventually be ousted. And that is the crux of my argument really. If you take on the Kuriles now, I think you need to be of the mindset you are doing it as an attritional move: 'you may oust me but I am going to make you bleed doing it'. I don't 'feel' you are thinking like that. I 'feel' you are thinking you will get in and you will hold the places you are after. At the very least, with operation Port Royal, I think you need to look to take three islands that can mutually support each other, have enough supplies and engineering to keep them functional, and of course, be ready to lose the lot anyway.

I like your Santa Cruz and Horn Island ideas. They threaten him without rousing his full ire, you can get into attritional fighting, which is again IMHO, what you want in the early war, and they also double as a great spring board if you do decide go on with it. I'd just recommend that you do so in force, with mutual supporting bases and all the defensive and counter attacking capacity you can muster. Or, look for other locations like this: Gilberts or even Carolines (although the later is an ask to supply - but you were contemplating the Kuriles!)

Again, very much my opinion. Continue with the enthralling story.

Al

_____________________________



Image courtesy of Divepac

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 348
RE: Meanwhile, back at the ranch... - 11/16/2009 2:01:39 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks, azprezto, for your thoughts and suggestions.  I concur that attritioning Japanese assets can be as valuable (and more achievable) in 1942 as a major offensive.

I am finding out that just like WitP the Japanese are too tough in mid '42 to take on head-to-head - something I wasn't sure about until I got my fanny whipped.  Attritioning the Japanese is a good idea.

The build-ups in the Santa Cruz and northern Oz regions are important - both to make Miller look and worry about the future in these areas and because these bases will in all likelihood serve an important role at some point.  However, both build-ups are low cost, low risk operations.  A few engineer units to Vana and Ndeni, Coen and Portland Roads, and presto! the bases are building up.  Throw in the occasional reconnaisance patrol and bombing raid and Miller should conclude I have designs here.

The build-ups for Timor and the Kuriles are "the real thing," but I won't proceed unless the conditions appear favorable.  Attacking one should trigger a full Japanese counter-attack, which should leave the other more open.  So, if I'm going to hit one, I want to hit both and apply maximum pressure at two widely divergent places on the map.  Both of these regions have the added advantage in that Allied controlled territory (Oz and the Aleutians) are nearby.  Support and a refuge will not be terribly far away.   I would be more willing to permit the Kuriles to turn into an attritioning battle if Miller turns his full attention there; if I go to Timor in force I want to stay.  But if Miller focuses on one and allows the other to become well-established, so be it.  Both pose huge strategic threats to Japan.

I just received SigInt that Paramushiro is garrisoned by 6,900 men; Onnekotan is vacant.  IE, I could proceed with these operations right now and in all likelihood succeed - at least temporarily.  I'm not doing so yet,  because I don't think it can succeed by itself.  If the situation around Timor is unchanged in a month, I'll consider proceeding with both.

On another note, the commitment of British and Indian troops to the DEI has year-long consequences - or perhaps consequences for the duration of the war.  It takes so long to prep and move an army that once it's accomplished getting them back would take ages.  Right now these troops are still at Bombay.  Once they're at Perth, I'm pretty much committed to a Timor/east DEI focus for a long time to come.

(in reply to aprezto)
Post #: 349
Wazzup? - 11/16/2009 4:06:33 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		7/13/42 to 7/22/42
 
An update on developments around the map:

NoPac:  As noted previously, the Allies have occupied and are building each of the Aleutians bases.  Attu only has a garrison of 10 AV, so I'm sending reinforcements.  A 42-AV Canadian unit will head this way.  We don't have house rules, but I think even in WitP it was permissible to use Canadian units in Alaska and the Aleutians.  SigInt reveals 6,900 Japanese at Paramushiro (airbase level four).  Onnekotan still has a level zero airbase.  All troops are now present at Seattle.  It appears the Allies have sufficient APs and AKs on hand for this operation.

CenPac:  A small infantry unit from Hilo is heading to Canton Island.  Except for a few subs early in the game, Miller hasn't deployed any subs or other assets in the Line Islands.

SoPac:  APDs are carrying troops and supplies from Efate to Vana, and from Noumea to Luganville.  I need more of these helpful ships!  The first base force should arrive at Luganville tomorrow.

SWPac:  Ouch.  I sent a CA/CL/DD bombardment force from Brisbane to Milne Bay; long before it arrived, Jap Nells and Bettys sortied, sank CA Salt Lake City, and badly damaged two CLs. The build up of Coen and Portland Roads continues.  Once the latter is fully operation, Port Moresby because a legitimate two-engine bomber target.

DEI:  No sign of the Japanese around Timor.  I haven't taken any action to reinforce Lautem, yet, but I am sending supplies via air transport.

India:  I-17 took out a genuine AP near Goa - ouch.  These ships are in short supply in India at the moment.  Each is badly needed to carry troops to Australia.

Burma:  The Japanese bombed out of existence two small units at Akyba (in WitP, units didn't evaporate; is this something new and sinister with AE?  I mean, the entire units just disappeared).  He then landed a small detachment that took this base.  Much stronger garrisons are at Cox's Bazaar and Chittagong. Finally, Allied fighters that have been training at Calcutta are nearing 50%. A P-38 unit is at 49%.  I will employ these to protect Cox's and Chittagong.

China:  Miller continues to bomb strategic targets in China.  Nearly all my front line and second line bases are wiped out.  He hasn't advanced in a big way, yet, on Sian or Nanyang.  He tried a deliberate attack on Changsha several weeks ago with horrendous results - he won't try that again soon.  He hasn't moved yet on Liuchow, thank goodness.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 350
RE: Wazzup? - 11/16/2009 5:12:13 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

China:  Miller continues to bomb strategic targets in China.  Nearly all my front line and second line bases are wiped out.  He hasn't advanced in a big way, yet, on Sian or Nanyang.  He tried a deliberate attack on Changsha several weeks ago with horrendous results - he won't try that again soon.  He hasn't moved yet on Liuchow, thank goodness.


Probably stupid idea, but given you're getting creamed in China by the death star anyway, could you pulll some units north, then east, then roundhouse into his garrison areas, and try to trigger a Soviet activation?

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 351
RE: Wazzup? - 11/16/2009 5:30:49 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		I am just getting caught up Dan, great AAR as always. Some thoughts:

I think the Allies have to be very catious about committing CVs in 1942, as you found out. Miller's performance is impressive considering he probably had to replace alot of pilots from the Java battle. Then again, so did you.

Although in FLEET CVs the USN and Japan are just about equal, the IJN has a big advantage in it's 2nd team, the Junyo CVs, CVLs, etc. Altogehter that's 210 CV aircraft, the airpower equivalent of 3 more fleet CVs (even if individually they do have limitations).
The Japanese can actually afford CV battle attrition more in 1942 than the Allies. The Japanese can more easily replace aircraft losses in 1942. Pilots are a problem, but you can go one rank deep by taking from the Home Islands units.

This equation changes completely in 1943, when its the IJN that can't afford attrition.


Overall, I think AE has magnified the importance of Warships, both CVs and Surface ships relative to WITP. The reason I think this is that Naval-Attack LBA is much less effective than it was in WITP. Bettys are more vulnerable and can only base in limited places; Allied LBA, other than Marine DB units, are very poor anti-ship units unless they have been trained. All of this makes the Navy more important. Not sure if others feel this way, but now more than ever, it's about the FLEET, the FLEET, the FLEET

_____________________________


(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 352
RE: Wazzup? - 11/16/2009 6:09:02 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Burma:  The Japanese bombed out of existence two small units at Akyba (in WitP, units didn't evaporate; is this something new and sinister with AE?  I mean, the entire units just disappeared).


I think so. I saw the same in an AI game. IJ had two units near Akyab that appeared to be artillery (recon showed only guns). When ready I hit them with several squadrons of dive bombers, plus two and four engine bombers. Both units disappeared during turn resolution.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 353
Bitter Herbs - 11/17/2009 12:09:55 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		7/23/42 to 7/30/42
 
As dismal a span of days as I can remember.  No major clashes occurred, but it's just one sting after another absorbed by the Allies.

Cox's Bazaar:  A Japanese amphibious force arrived at Cox's Bazaar on the 27th.  SigInt disclosed the threat on the 24th, so the Allies set all bombers to naval attack and prepared fighters for CAP and escort.  The bombers sortied in big numbers on the 27th and 28th - more than 100 each day - and scored a grand total of one hit, and that on BB Nagato.  On the 28th the Allies lost 78 aircraft, the Japs 16.  That's pretty much been the ratio of a-2-a losses over this period.  I've had to stand down what remains of the bombers.  The forewarning gave me time to move a small recon unit to Cox's to reinforce the East African unit already there.  Before they were shot down, some transport aircraft brought in a detachment of a British brigade.  The Allies have about 190 AV behind three forts with alot more on the way.  The Japanese have about 650 AV.  I don't know how disrupted they are, but Miller hasn't even tried an attack yet.  I probably need about a week to get substantial reinforcements to Cox's, but I may not have that long.  I'd say three forts just about guarantees at least two two-day turns, so we'll see.

India:  The invasion of Cox's puzzles me a bit.  It has a good airfield, but it is close to many big Allied airfields.  It will be hard for the Japanese to supply.  If the Japanese take it a long attritional air war should ensue.  I doubt Miller can really threaten Chittagong at this point given the large number of ground units in the area.

Bay of Bengal:  O-19 put a TT in a CS near the Nicobars...or I think it did.  The combat report disagrees and reports the stricken ship was CVL Ryujo.  I don't believe either report, but I do believe Miller has recalled his CVE/CVL TF, which I expect him to send to the DEI to finish off Timor. 

China:  Miller expressed "embarrassment" over the mayhem created by Japanese artillery at Nanyang.  He has four divisions and four artillery units there.  The Chinese had 1900 AV behind four forts.  Day One Bombardment:  800 casualites.  Day Two:  2,192.  That's right - 2k casualties taken by units dug in behind four forts.  Miller wasn't too embarrassed to follow up with deliberate attacks.  Over two days these dropped forts from four to two and cost the IJA 5,100 casualties.  The Chinese, who were on the defense and therefore likely to take less casualties, took 11,700.  Nanyang will fall within the week.  Next stop:  Sian.  Meanwhile, over at Changsha, Miller was so embarrassed by the artillery fiasco that is China that he brought in another unit to embarrass him there, too.

NoPac:  The quiet continues.

CenPac:  The quiet continues.  A small infantry unit just unloaded at Canton Island bringing the garrison to 100+ AV.

SoPac:  The trusty little APDs are busy shuttling troops between Efate and Vana Lueva, and between Noumea and Luganville.  The latter has a base force now.

SWPac:  The quiet continues.  The Allies look at their tenuous grip on Timor - Lautem and Dili are still in Allied hands - and yearn to take advantage of the situation.  But I can't really think of a way of doing so any time soon.  Coen's airfield just went to level three.  More troops are on the way to Portland Roads.  Barring a calamity (something like an all-out Japanese invasion of NE Oz), I can see the Allies beginning a concentrated bombing campaign vs. New Guines within two months.

Subwars:  A slew of Japanese attacks:  I-8 gets an AK near Karachi; I-26 finishes off a damaged CL near Townsville; I-10 gets an AK near Karachi; I-8 gets and AP near Bombay; and I-10 gets an AK near Goa.  There were many Allied ASW attacks - I think we got RO-22 near Sydney and several subs were lightly damaged around Australia and India.  The only successful Allied attacks were O-19 (mentioned above) and KXVI (an AK near Port Blair).  The list of Japanese submarines sunk in the game is rather impressive, but the supply seems endless and there's no question that Japanese subs have dished out much more than they've taken.

Bitter Herbs:  Massive one-sided casualty totals in China; massive one-sided a-2-a losses in India; massive one-sided losses in the sub wars.  I need something good to happen.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 11/17/2009 12:10:36 PM >

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 354
RE: Bitter Herbs - 11/17/2009 1:20:34 PM   
Prydwen


Posts: 156
Joined: 2/23/2009
Status: offline 		Don't get to down. I remember reading your AAR with John and the dark days when you thought you were going to lose all of Oz. You turned that one around and I have no doubt you'll be able to get on track in this game as well.

TheMadHouse

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 355
RE: Bitter Herbs - 11/17/2009 1:25:58 PM   
Yakface


Posts: 846
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Canoerebel - enjoying the AAR. There was a promise of a scrren shot of China - would be interesting to have a look.

(in reply to Prydwen)
Post #: 356
RE: Bitter Herbs - 11/17/2009 1:34:14 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface
Hi Canoerebel - enjoying the AAR. There was a promise of a scrren shot of China - would be interesting to have a look.


Oh, thanks for the reminder...I just LOVE dwelling on China.

Nevertheless, your wish is my command. I shall begin work on a screen shot and post it shortly.

(in reply to Yakface)
Post #: 357
China Map - 11/17/2009 1:50:59 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		The situation in China as of 7/30/42. (Not a pretty one, I might add.)




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 358
RE: Bitter Herbs - 11/17/2009 2:02:40 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Cox's Bazaar: A Japanese amphibious force arrived at Cox's Bazaar on the 27th. SigInt disclosed the threat on the 24th, so the Allies set all bombers to naval attack and prepared fighters for CAP and escort. The bombers sortied in big numbers on the 27th and 28th - more than 100 each day - and scored a grand total of one hit, and that on BB Nagato. On the 28th the Allies lost 78 aircraft, the Japs 16. That's pretty much been the ratio of a-2-a losses over this period. I've had to stand down what remains of the bombers. The forewarning gave me time to move a small recon unit to Cox's to reinforce the East African unit already there. Before they were shot down, some transport aircraft brought in a detachment of a British brigade. The Allies have about 190 AV behind three forts with alot more on the way. The Japanese have about 650 AV. I don't know how disrupted they are, but Miller hasn't even tried an attack yet. I probably need about a week to get substantial reinforcements to Cox's, but I may not have that long. I'd say three forts just about guarantees at least two two-day turns, so we'll see.

India: The invasion of Cox's puzzles me a bit. It has a good airfield, but it is close to many big Allied airfields. It will be hard for the Japanese to supply. If the Japanese take it a long attritional air war should ensue. I doubt Miller can really threaten Chittagong at this point given the large number of ground units in the area.


Would it be better to reinforce Chittagong rather than force your troop down the trail to Cox Bazaar?? Both hexes are in the malaria zone. He can only reinforce and bring in supplies from the sea, not overland. For right now, I would just try to bottle him up there and allow yourself to prepare for a counterattack long term. I think your British subs will be busy in the coming days.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 359
RE: Bitter Herbs - 11/17/2009 2:18:42 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		It might be better to hold at Chittagong, but I want to do what I can to promote a Japanese defeat at Cox's Bazaar.  If Miller meets with a repulse there and then feels pressed to "feed into the defeat," so much the better.  But if he takes the base quickly, I'll just halt my troops and return them to Chittagong.  I have plenty to defend that base anyhow.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 360
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