Bomber Experience Levels

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Tech Support >> Bomber Experience Levels

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Bomber Experience Levels - 6/17/2002 12:16:43 AM

Diealtekoenig

Posts: 56
Joined: 5/18/2002
From: Port Moresby, New Guinea
Status: offline

Version 1.10 changed how Training distributes missions amongst the most/least experienced pilots. I gather there was no change in how flying Supply missions affects exerience gains.

Matrix said in another thread that "controlled experiment data" is the most useful. Here are some data from Scenario 17, played at Head to Head but with no orders at all for the Japanese and with the only allied orders for the medium bombers at Charter Towers

15th BS (B25D):
Start with 50 Exp/51 Morale/15 Fatigue
Orders Fly Supply to Cairns

90th BS (B25D)
Start with 51 Exp/51 Morale/17 Fatigue
Orders Training at 100%

89th BS (A20B)
Start with 50 Exp/52 Morale/15 Fatigue
Orders Training at 50%

I ran the game for 7 turns

Results:
15th (On supply runs)
71 Exp/53 Morale/41 Fatigue
By Pilot:
Ex/Fa/Mi
73/38/7
75/45/7
75/40/7
75/42/6
74/35/6
76/45/5
72/36/5
55/41/1
73/39/6
75/46/7
82/33/7
76/52/7
73/48/7
73/40/7

90th (100% Training)
51 Exp/51 Morale/ 17 Fat
By Pilot:
Ex/Fa/Mi
52/57/16
53/54/15
53/07/09
55/30/10
52/27/09
51/06/09
50/14/06
55/01/09
49/01/04
52/13/09
47/02/06
55/02/06

89th (50% Training)
51 Exp/51 Morale/13 Fatigue
By Pilot:
Ex/Fa/Mi
53/04/5
50/43/8
53/20/8
51/01/4
53/04/8
54/10/8
50/31/9
51/01/4
50/12/5
53/01/4
53/23/5

Someone (I think Joel Billings) said the disadvantage of running a lot of supply missions was the operational losses would be crippling. I have trouble telling where the operaional losses occur (i.e. I don't think there is a message unless a pilot is killed). I got no messages about killed pilots. The total number of replacements used were 4 B25D and 2 A20B (and those squadrons are the only ones with B25D or A20B). I suspect the one pilot in the 15th BS with 55 Exp and only 1 mission is new. I am not sure the "Used" necessarily mean losses. Do they? In any case the Supply Mission Squadron flew _fewer_ missions than the 100% Training Squadron.

I would conclude the gain in experience from flying supply missions with bombers is enormous, and is enormously more than the gain flying training missions even at 100%. Any loss of A/C due to boosting experience in this manner (If indeed there is any. The A20Bs had 2 replacements themselves) will be quickly made up by the tremendously enhanced effectiveness of these squadrons in sinking enemy ships. And the Fatigue can obviously be removed by resting these now-crack squadrons a couple of days.

Going from 50 to 51 experience in 1 week of training is reasonable. Going from 51 to 71 in a week severely unbalances things in favor of bomber squadrons. Given the Allied preponderance of Land Based Air I suspect this gives an overwhelming edge to the Allies.

I for one would appreciate it if the gain in experience for supply missions was much reduced (or eliminated). I would be happy to run other sorts of tests if that would help.

Post #: 1

- 6/17/2002 2:00:49 AM

silkworm

Posts: 135
Joined: 8/18/2000
From: Walnut Creek, CA
Status: offline

you can find your losses at Info->Aircraft Lossess. Supply run losses are indeed very high, higher than bombing missioins. I just train my bombers by bombing a nearyby enemy base.

(in reply to Diealtekoenig)

Post #: 2

- 6/17/2002 2:07:03 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Diealtekoenig,

Thanks, that's some very good info. Looks like this is worth checking into, I'll move your post to the bugs forum to make sure it gets on the list as a design decision to be reviewed.

Regards,

- Erik

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(in reply to Diealtekoenig)

Post #: 3

- 6/17/2002 10:48:54 PM

Mike Wood

Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline

Hello...

Supply run experience has been reduced in the upcoming patch.

Bye...

Michael Wood

(in reply to Diealtekoenig)

Post #: 4

- 6/18/2002 1:52:57 AM

Hartmann

Posts: 888
Joined: 11/28/2000
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike Wood
[B]Hello...

Supply run experience has been reduced in the upcoming patch.

Bye...

Michael Wood [/B][/QUOTE]

That's great! But couldn't we also tone down the operational losses in supply runs somewhat in parallel? I think they shouldn't be so high that it turns out to be more dangerous to make a supply run than a bombing run. Contrary to what others seem to have experienced, I found that the statement that operational losses in supply runs are crippling is true. Some of my Mavis groups were worn down to one plane after a while.
Hartmann

(in reply to Diealtekoenig)

Post #: 5

Not so fast, please. - 6/18/2002 8:19:25 AM

Armorer

Posts: 29
Joined: 4/8/2002
From: Englewood, OH
Status: offline

Greetings,

I appreciate the desire to tone down the experience gained from running supply missions; after all, how much combat experience can you gain carrying beans from Noumea to Luganville? However, before you do away with that, let's take a look at the Training routine. From what I've seen, putting AGs on training gains nothing. I've just finished scenario 14, and as far as I can tell, not one of my AGs ever gained more than a single point of experience from being on a training mission. That includes #5 & #6 Squadrons, RAAF, both of which have spent the entire scenario (1 Aug 42 - 31 Dec 43) in Brisbane, training their little hearts out. Both have experience levels of 61. That's the level #6 Squadron begins the scenario at, while #5 Squadron actully lost three points due to pilot additions. BTW, I agree with Die Alte Koenig, that Supply runs increase experience far too fast and high, but that's the only way I've seen to increase experience, at least for bombers. I haven't figured out a way for fighter or fighter-bomber squadrons to increase theirs. I've read other posts where folks say they've increased their Experience by bombing enemy bases and by air-to-air combat.
That's not worked for me either. For example, my most successful fighter squadron is the 67th, which was the first to re-quip with the P-38G. At the end of the campaign, the 67th had 188 kills. Capt D. Bannon, 11 kills, had flown 524 missions, with an experience rating of 83, which is the highest in the squadron. Average experience in the squadron is 72, even though the fewest number of missions flown by anyone in the squadron is 196. Now, the 67th hasn't been flying any training missions in quite some time (since transitioning to the Lightning), so the vast majority of missions flown have been escort and CAP.
What's my point? Not real sure - probably should have started a new thread, rather than stealing Diealtekoening's (sorry about that). Just seems that the training routine needs to be looked at.

Sorry for rambling for so long.

Regards,
Randy

(in reply to Diealtekoenig)

Post #: 6

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Tech Support >> Bomber Experience Levels

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