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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/14/2009 9:19:24 AM

Rainer79

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Finding a decent repair yard for Enterprise will be tough though. The nearest (usable) ones would be Colombo, Bombay, Cape Town or Sydney neither of which are very close.

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/14/2009 10:47:24 AM

vlcz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer79

Finding a decent repair yard for Enterprise will be tough though. The nearest (usable) ones would be Colombo, Bombay, Cape Town or Sydney neither of which are very close.

With that amount of heavy damage sydney will not qualify for full repair, nor colombo ... and I think bombay is also of little use, so a long voyage for our friend the enterprise

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/14/2009 11:23:15 AM

Rainer79

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The Enterprise's tonnage is a little less than 20k so it can be put into any of the listed repair yards (and therefore be fully repaired there). Of course, the bigger the better for the repair but if it were my carrier I don't want to think about what would happen if the dreaded "temporay flotation repairs fail" message appears when the ship is in an off-map movement box.

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Post #: 63

RE: Operation Retribution - 10/14/2009 11:53:25 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer79

The Enterprise's tonnage is a little less than 20k so it can be put into any of the listed repair yards (and therefore be fully repaired there). Of course, the bigger the better for the repair but if it were my carrier I don't want to think about what would happen if the dreaded "temporay flotation repairs fail" message appears when the ship is in an off-map movement box.

Isn't a ship's durability rating still paramount in determination of dry docking and repairing? If it is, that narrows the list of receiving ports significantly-I think Capetown is the only one in this neck of the woods capable of fixing her with maximum efficiency.

Too bad about the E, Q-ball. That's going to put her out of the action for at least a couple full months....

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/14/2009 1:44:23 PM

Graymane

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Hi,

Curious China strategy. I'd strongly suggest not attacking anywhere there. Really. I've found a good strategy is holding those wooded, roaded areas just outside the city and let the natural forts build up. I'd move your troops around Sinyang to the northern road in the woods to Nanyang and the road across the river. Since you were crushed in Ichang, you could have some real problems in that area if he pushes across the river and eventually into the Changsa region. I'd get my artillery rested up in the Chungking area and take on reinforcements for them and get them into the front asap.

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/14/2009 2:23:35 PM

Rainer79

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Isn't a ship's durability rating still paramount in determination of dry docking and repairing? If it is, that narrows the list of receiving ports significantly-I think Capetown is the only one in this neck of the woods capable of fixing her with maximum efficiency.

Durability AFAIK only affects the duration of the repairs needed, not whether a ship can be repaired in a repair yard or not (tonnage does that).

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/14/2009 2:32:36 PM

ny59giants

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I would take the four air groups off and start making his invasions in the SRA more costly. Just be careful that they don't get cut off.

It would use Soerabaja until she is pumped out, but leave a very strong ASW TF or two with her. I then would send her to Perth until all but major damage was left and then over to Cape Town. There, you could set her to the highest priority for repairs.

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Post #: 67

RE: Operation Retribution - 10/14/2009 2:37:10 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer79

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Isn't a ship's durability rating still paramount in determination of dry docking and repairing? If it is, that narrows the list of receiving ports significantly-I think Capetown is the only one in this neck of the woods capable of fixing her with maximum efficiency.

Durability AFAIK only affects the duration of the repairs needed, not whether a ship can be repaired in a repair yard or not (tonnage does that).

You're right, Rainer79. A review of the manual corrected my understanding.

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Post #: 68

RE: Operation Retribution - 10/14/2009 2:45:49 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer79

Finding a decent repair yard for Enterprise will be tough though. The nearest (usable) ones would be Colombo, Bombay, Cape Town or Sydney neither of which are very close.

Q-ball,

FWIW, I had Enterprise damaged near Java (IIRC, floatation and SYS in the low 30s) from an early exchange versus an IJN CV TF in a recent AI game. As other posters are proposing, I sent her to Soerbaja for initial repairs and then (escorted and at cruise speed) ultimately to Capetown. She healed up nicely there. As an added bonus, don't some of the British CVs come on screen there? Might be nice to pair up in that manner before Enterprise leaves again. Heck, throw Hermes into the mix and you have a pretty capable TF.

Yorktown, which was sunk in exchange for the Soryu in my game, donated her air groups to the Java defense cause. Those DBs and TBs really helped against the (admittedly underescorted) IJN invasion TFs, so I'd echo this suggestion as being quite useful.

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Post #: 69

Be Careful what you wish for - 10/14/2009 11:37:33 PM

Q-Ball

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Wow, thanks to everyone for the comments! That's alot of traffic, too much to acknowledge. I like the suggestions, but more intelligence is coming in which should dictate events.....

Combat Report, Jan 9,10,11 1942

The big story is the story of the E, or as I now dub it, OPERATION COMFORT. Unfortunately she is down to impulse speed only, with Klingon forces gathering about. Or, the Japanese Empire!

Before the Big E, a couple other quick notes:
*The Japanese are stuck at Ambon, attacking 1-2. I am surprised this garrison is holding so far. Other than this, no other moves in the DEI.
*The Japanese occupied an empty Johore Bharu, opposite Singapore; all Malayan troops are now in Fortress Singapore. The air battle there is over, successive waves of Zeros and Sally finally broke my Buffalo Units. They did nice work shooting down over 20 aircraft in the battle of Malaya, but I withdrew the remnants, conceding the sky to Japan.
*Japanese troops bombard Clark, and inflict 1000 casualties 2 days in a row. If this continues, Luzon won't last long.

DEI and the USS Enterprise
The day after the strike off Kuching, and as Enterprise was eating her torpedo, I bombarded Kuching with a force of cruisers. I was looking to see if CF moved ships back to unload; he had not, but we shot up the base pretty good, and confirmed there are no base forces present. This is important, because Kuching is within Netty range of Soerbaya. It's not much a stretch for CF to think Enterprise is pumping out at Soerbaya, which she is. I am seriously worried about him taking a shot using Port Attack, enough that I think I have to move Enterprise tommorow, regardless of status. Even without Netties, he could use Baby KB to port raid pretty much anytime. So regardless, we're moving out tommorow.

USS Enterprise
Currently, she is at 23/36/30, with 29 major flt and 18 major eng. She is close to patched up on float, and might be done tommorow. The sys damage is good enough that she'll be seaworthy and operational, provided no other hits occur. She can currently make 13 kts, which is REALLY slow, I hope tommorow we can make at least 15 and be on our way. Lexington and all the cruisers are already headed to Perth; I have left 8 DDs to ASW and Escort the Big E.

Be careful what you wish for.....
So, if you remember, the objective of OPERATION RETRIBUTION was to primarily draw KB into the DEI; to force him to commit CV strength here, which delays advances into the South Pacific. There is evidence that this mission is accomplished; but be careful what you wish for, CF may be gunning for Big E. This is a problem.

KB was last sighted January 8th south of Noumea; he had raided Noumea port, finding nothing, and I had no ships down there at all. After that is disappeared. NOW, 3 days later, January 11th, I get a curious sighting......a transport TF off Australia sights a JAKE. It could be a bad sighting, but if it's a Japanese plane, it can only be from a ship (see map). I doubt a surface TF would be down there, so I suspect this is KB, and that KB is running "dark" to avoid detection. I am not sure, because that would be pretty ballsy to send it into the Gulf of Carpentaria rather than over the top of New Guinea, but then again it's not like I have strike aircraft or anything like that.

If this is the case, quick math tells me he could intercept Big E. It's not a stretch for him to think Big E will move to Perth, so her path would be easy to predict. This is a problem! Even if he doesn't catch Big E, a nice secondary objective for him would be to annihilate all the cruisers around Java, which would solve another problem.

Next Steps:
So, here is what I think I need to do:

1. Unload SBDs and Wildcats from Enterprise. Leave them irritatingly in DEI. I need to watch the exits though so they don't get stuck on Java (good suggestion Michael, I was thinking this way). Also means they won't sink if he does get Big E. I am taking the TBDs though, too short legged to stay. Even if stuck on Java, in a pinch I could fly them out to RN CVs.
2. Move Enterprise right away; I am thinking toward Capetown and the West Map Edge. That is alot of ocean out there, and difficult to intercept. I'll have to figure out later how to get her reunited with her airgroups.
3. Form a picket line in the Gulf of Carpentaria and Banda Sea to spot KB. We have a million Dutch auxilliaries that are perfect for this and not much else; many have been dispatched.

I would hate to be the captains of these Dutch pickets as they open their mission orders, but C'est la Guerre; think of the Queen and radio us any Val sightings before you die.

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RE: Be Careful what you wish for - 10/15/2009 12:55:39 AM

loricas

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for the enterprise carrier group: if the group is eliminated you can reconstruct paying PP so even if destroied in Java are not lost forever

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RE: Be Careful what you wish for - 10/15/2009 2:41:26 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
NOW, 3 days later, January 11th, I get a curious sighting......a transport TF off Australia sights a JAKE. It could be a bad sighting, but if it's a Japanese plane, it can only be from a ship (see map). I doubt a surface TF would be down there, so I suspect this is KB, and that KB is running "dark" to avoid detection.

I'm thinking misidentified sub-based Glen, but it might be something else.

Good luck on extricating E from her predicament. Remember cruise speed!

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RE: Be Careful what you wish for - 10/15/2009 3:17:45 AM

Q-Ball

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Combat Report, Jan 12th, 1942

Thanks Chickenboy. Not much happened this turn, other than we found out definitively where KB is. This is called the Hard Way to gather intelligence......

So, I was right about that JAKE sighting. Question is: Will he continue into Gulf of Carpentaria, or not?

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RE: Be Careful what you wish for - 10/15/2009 3:43:23 AM

ny59giants

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Place the TBs from Enterprise somewhere in Oz.

Have Big "E" follow an ASW TF by 2 or 3 hexes as she leaves the area. Count the hexes she moves and have the leading ASW TF that far ahead. Have her follow in the footsteps so lead ASW TF can discover and hopefully attack any subs the phase before Big "E" enters the same hex.

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RE: Be Careful what you wish for - 10/15/2009 5:11:46 AM

Q-Ball

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Combat Report, January 13, 1942

Again, typical stuff. Bombardments at Luzon, SS Porpoise did get an AK off Truk that had troops on it, that was nice.

Other than that, unloaded SBDs and Wildcats from Enterprise at Soerbaya. The transfer range for these is alot longer than WITP; they can actually make Derby from Soerbaya. Given that, we may wait until the Japanese approach Java. I am training the Dutch bombers for Naval Attack since the game start; they may actually hit something now.

KB is just off Horn Island at this point; I think we'll probably be able to make it. I am clearing Darwin and the Banda Sea of any shipping, not sure how far KB is heading toward Java. I may have to clear off all the surface units too, we'll see.

Attached is the picture of Enterprise........

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RE: Be Careful what you wish for - 10/15/2009 2:45:06 PM

Chickenboy

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Q-ball,

I've noticed that some of my CV escort TFs will inadvertently toggle back to / default back to Air Combat TFs after a turn. That may make a difference in terms of the escorting DDs mission orders for support.

ETA: Does the Enterprise have sufficient operational fuel reserves to refuel the Barker and Peary at sea en route?

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 10/15/2009 2:52:22 PM >

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RE: Be Careful what you wish for - 10/15/2009 2:50:36 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

So, I was right about that JAKE sighting. Question is: Will he continue into Gulf of Carpentaria, or not?

OH NO! Maybe your opponent has been able to figure out how to attack with sub-based Kates?

Alright, either that or I was dead wrong. Good call.

For my own learning curve: how did you know this was likely KB and not an SCTF or other Jake-related sighting?

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/16/2009 2:49:53 AM

Q-Ball

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Combat Report, Jan 14,15,16,17

Various happenings the last few days as the Japanese War Machine grinds on....

Travels of Kido Butai:
KB transited the Torres Strait. I had spotted it on my last update, so KB did very minmal damage, just sinking 2 AMcs at Darwin that couldn't get out of the way. After moving north of Timor, KB disappeared.

Well, I accomplished the objective of RETRIBUTION, getting KB into the DEI. I don't know if they are going to hang around, but I am taking the precaution of emptying Soerbaya of pretty much everything else that floats. Boise and friends are gone from Java, only the Dutch surface forces remain. Tankers continue to load at Soerbaya, but the walls are closing in; pretty soon, I won't be able to move fuel.

Burma:
The Japanese attacked at took Pegu. I hadn't paid much attention to Burma, and as a result, my defenses are an absolute mess. My bad! Chinese troops are gathering at Lashio, but I don't see holding Burma. India beckons. I am evacuating Rangoon.

Malaya:
The Japs are gathering at Johore Bharu prior to crossing. We await.

DEI:
Ambon finally falls on the 17th after a heroic resistance. I moved SBDs to Balikpapan, and they attacked shipping around Tarakan. They put a bomb on Mikuma, and generally announced that we have nasty airplanes around Java. A vast Japanese armada is approaching Balikpapan; it will fall, not much I can do about it.

Pacific:
With KB occupied elsewhere, I am moving troops all over the South Pacific. One of our subs sank an AKL off Sakhalin....he will have to escort ships everywhere.

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/16/2009 2:28:44 PM

SuluSea

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The Dutch Castor Class AR should be around and probably be a huge help the Enterprise. Hopefully she's still in the DEI and afloat.

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/16/2009 9:22:58 PM

Q-Ball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

�The Dutch�Castor Class AR�should be around and probably be a huge help the Enterprise. Hopefully she's still in the DEI and afloat.

Good question. She is afloat, but in Sydney. She was among many ships moved Dec 8th.

Right at the opening gun, I moved alot of DEI shipping. Here is what I did in general:

AKs: All AKs picked up a load of fuel, and moved to Australia. The long-range ones were then sent to Capetown.
APs: Long-Range APs were sent to Australia, and thence to USA. Short-Range APs are retained in Australia, for local moves, and later invasions.
TKs: Are moving fuel from Java to Perth; most have made 2 round-trips. I have 250K fuel now at Perth, and growing.
AS/AR/AVPs: Useful auxilliaries were sent day one to Australia. A handful of AVPs are around to provide Do-24 support

Warships were kept around, but I moved off useful non-combat ships. No reason to keep them in harms way.

PS ON ENTEPRISE: She is halfway now to the map-edge near Cape Town, and isn't leaking any. She'll make it. KB is also not hunting her either; I may re-direct now to Perth, but that would mean a long voyage to USA for repair. Not sure yet, Cape Town is actually the closest repair yard, but it will take awhile to move her once complete.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 10/16/2009 9:25:22 PM >

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/16/2009 10:28:54 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer79

Finding a decent repair yard for Enterprise will be tough though. The nearest (usable) ones would be Colombo, Bombay, Cape Town or Sydney neither of which are very close.

Cape Town is the safe one and plenty big and there are less likely to be any Japs in that direction. That is where I sent the POW. You can send it to Colombo but that really takes up all the shipyard capacity for that port. You need the yard there to repair subs, DDs, CLs and AKs.

I had to bug out of Bativia with the POW. She survived the day one suprise but took four torpedoes from bettys. Still I could not leave her in Bativia as I knew my opponent would be looking for her (actually via FOW, he thought she was sunk). She had about 40 sys and 45 flotation but had to go anyway. I sent her to Cape Town. The key is to get sys damage down. A ship with heavy flotation but no sys damage will almost always make it (almost). However high sys makes it very dangerous. But there are other factors. Enterprise like POW has a very high crew quality and a good captain. I found that under these condtions POW actually repaired some sys damage while enroute. You should be fine sending big E to Capetown as her damage is less than I had, but there are no longer any guarantees. Good luck.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 10/16/2009 10:39:00 PM >

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/16/2009 10:36:40 PM

Q-Ball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Cape Town is the safe one and plenty big and there are less likely to be any Japs in that direction. That is where I sent the POW. You can send it to Colombo but that really takes up all the shipyard capacity for that port. You need the yard there to repair subs, DDs, CLs and AKs.

Another reason is that Colombo isn't safe once Singapore falls. It's a piece of cake to port raid using KB, and there is bupkus the RN can do about it.

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/16/2009 10:40:49 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Cape Town is the safe one and plenty big and there are less likely to be any Japs in that direction. That is where I sent the POW. You can send it to Colombo but that really takes up all the shipyard capacity for that port. You need the yard there to repair subs, DDs, CLs and AKs.

Another reason is that Colombo isn't safe once Singapore falls. It's a piece of cake to port raid using KB, and there is bupkus the RN can do about it.

Right. See my post again. I added some remarks about my experience getting the crippled POW to Capetown.

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/16/2009 10:44:13 PM

anarchyintheuk

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Just for water muddying purposes, it should take less than 2 months to repair Big E at Sydney excluding travel time.

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/16/2009 11:02:28 PM

Q-Ball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Just for water muddying purposes, it should take less than 2 months to repair Big E at Sydney excluding travel time.

Yeah, thought of that.....but Sydney isn't safe either. You can sneak Port Raid it. Melbourne is the only truly safe port in Australia.

With the new NavSearch in AE, it's easier now to sneak up on a coastline.

In WITP, I had a PBEM where I did a sneak attack on Sydney, and it was carnage.

I might be paranoid with all these Sneak Attack scenarios, but I have done enough to know that they can really ruin your day.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 10/16/2009 11:09:46 PM >

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/16/2009 11:02:30 PM

Canoerebel

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If Ent is repaired at Capetown, would it be faster to send her back to the Pacific via the Panama Canal?

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/16/2009 11:13:21 PM

Q-Ball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

If Ent is repaired at Capetown, would it be faster to send her back to the Pacific via the Panama Canal?

Maybe, but I dropped her airgroups off in Java. They will probably withdraw to Australia when the time comes. In which case, I need to either a) ship them to Capetown, or b) ship Ent to Australia first to pick up her planes. Not sure what I'll do, the airgroups could be handy for awhile in Oz.

It was the right thing to do, he has to account for those planes on Java.

I will have an update tonight, we just had a Battle of Java Sea, only off Balikpapan; basically the Dutch ran into a pile of IJN cruisers and came out on the losing end.

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/16/2009 11:25:02 PM

Canoerebel

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At least your keeping him honest, which is important. Too, you pinpointed the location of the KB - always a great thing to know - and thus have had time to move stuff about in the KB-free Pacific. Well done.

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/17/2009 4:34:06 AM

Q-Ball

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Combat Report, Jan 18,19 1942

Battle of Balikpapan
The last couple days saw a Battle of the Java Sea in the DEI, or this time it was off Balikpapan. I knew there were alot of Japanese Ships off Balikpapan, but felt it was time to send in the Dutch; they are there to defend the Queen's territory, not run to Australia, so going down swinging, just like Force Z, seems like the sporting thing to do.

At any rate, Doorman's TF ran smack into a TF of cruisers. Although round 1 wasn't a total wipeout, the day after Baby KB put torpedos into Java and Tromp, sending them to the bottom to join 3 DDs. DeRuyter and 4DDs live, and will flee to Soerbaya.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Balikpapan at 64,97, Range 24,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Mogami, Shell hits 1
CA Mikuma, Shell hits 1
CA Suzuya, Shell hits 1
CA Kumano, Shell hits 1
DD Maikaze, Shell hits 1
DD Nowaki
DD Arashi
DD Hagikaze

Allied Ships
CL Java, Shell hits 5, heavy fires
CL De Ruyter
CL Tromp, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Banckert
DD Van Nes, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
DD Witte de With
DD Evertsen, Shell hits 1, heavy fires
DD Van Ghent, Shell hits 1

Burma
Rangoon falls, and my "defense" continues. Everyone is streaming north toward Mandalay. Pretty lousy generalship there on my part.

DEI
A sub spotted KB north of Ambon two days ago, then nothing. Not sure where it is. The Japanese Navy seems concentrated in the DEI now, which I suppose is what I wanted. I have pretty much evacuated most shipping now other than the Dutch, and I'll probably send them away as well. Kido Butai's threat served to clear the DEI of ships for now, though if I get a positive KB sighting, I may come back with CVs; Lexington lingers at Perth, and joined with HMS Indomitable would make a nice TF.

I have quite a bit of airpower. The Dutch Martins have been training a month on NavB, and are in the 30s now; not great, but maybe they can hit something. I haven't lost any Dutch fighters, they are all there, along with 16 RAF Buffalos, the Enterprise airgroups, 24 B-17s, and 16 Vildebeests, plus some Hudsons. All the troops are resting and training. The Japs will still take it, I just hope to continue to make the DEI expensive.

Elsewhere:
Building trenches, moving troops, usual stuff.
Enterprise is moving closeer to Cape Town. Thanks all for your comments!

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RE: Operation Retribution - 10/17/2009 12:36:57 PM

kaleun

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Good read. Looking forward to more

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