Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomcat

Mike, I agree with you. I wish we could clone the AE team. By the way, I hope I didn't offend you. I really have a lot of respect for some of you guys on this forum.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Max 86

Some have tried the PBEM experience and found it to be lacking. My personal experience with PBEM boils down to this: 5% satisfaction, 20% get cheated, 75% quit before the game is over. Not a lot of fun there IMO.

quote:

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser
and then the rest is resolved with ...mutual wives...

I have Only Good things to say about my PBEM experiences!

quote:

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Max 86

Some have tried the PBEM experience and found it to be lacking. My personal experience with PBEM boils down to this: 5% satisfaction, 20% get cheated, 75% quit before the game is over. Not a lot of fun there IMO.

I have played 6 Full PBEM WITP games, ALL ended After 1945. And I have never experienced the things you talk about above.

My experience was rather the opposite, I experienced:

100% satisfaction
0% cheateding / exploits
0% of them quit before the game was over


I'm very surprised by the statistics you had experienced, I think it comes a lot down to how well you and your game partner communicate.
(Use the phone, not only mail).. and then the rest is resolved with mutual maturity and mutual wives on fair game principals and a few House Rules.

I have Only Good things to say about my PBEM experiences!

quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman
JWE, what do you mean by CPX mode, and that you use an umpire ? I am not familiar with this set up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

It really depends on your opponant, but I've had the same experience you have. One of my games recently hit a bug and my opponant has graciously offered to replay not just the last turn, but several turns back to fix it. So I can say overall, my PBEM experience has been pleasant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

PBEM has been a very pleasant experience for me. You can also get to meet some interesting people from other places. While I would like to see a human like AI I don;t see that possible with a complex game like this. Some of the brilliant things I've seen in PBEM games done, would be very difficult to get programmed into a computer.

If you like games against the AI you may want to look into Strategic Command Pacific Theater. A more higher level and less detailed game, its a decent game against the AI.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

PBEM vs. AI = Religion. Here people tend to be one or the other. There's a small group in the middle who may play PBEM and AI, but they are a tiny minority. The vast majority play the game only one way, they have strong reasons for doing so, and it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that any discussion is going to alter their opinions. That won't stop the rabid PBEMers from preaching to the conservative AIers, though.

I think you have this one "dead on". Touch "religion", start a fight! Though I honestly believe most of the "PBEMer's" frustration lies with those "AI onlier"s" that seem to refuse to even try PBEM. Everybody's played against the AI, if only as a learning/practice aide. But many of the "AI only side" give the impression of having never even tried PBEM...., and religious "fundamentalists" of any stripe tend to annoy more open-minded folks. It's hard to see this "discussion" ending any time soon.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bretg80

Here here. Many of us bought this game to play against the AI. Maybe we will some day graduate to PBEM, but for now I think it is reasonable to want an A/I player that doesn't cheat using excessive resources and unfair rules.

So, with that said, can we not ask for a scenario that has the A/I playing fair. Maybe you can call it sub-par instead of normal.

P.S. Thanks to the AE devs who responded to this thread explaining that normal is more normal than we realize. However, it seems that normal still cheats more than most of us would like. So can we please have an even less cheating scenario? Pretty please with sugar on top

quote:

ORIGINAL: bretg80

So, with that said, can we not ask for a scenario that has the A/I playing fair. Maybe you can call it sub-par instead of normal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman
JWE, what do you mean by CPX mode, and that you use an umpire ? I am not familiar with this set up.

CPX is command post exercise. I play with a pretty well established group. There’s 2, 3, or 4 people on each side, each with their own responsibility. When somebody comes up with a neat scenario idea, anywhere from 2 to 6 months in duration, we build it, generate the ops orders, and fire it up.

We run the game H2H (not PBEM) so it’s easy to change main menu settings. After both sides are done, the umpire runs the turn (usually 2-3 day turns) and sends out results. Sometimes the umpire will pull a surprise of his own (cheat). Sometimes, if you are just in a build up or recovery phase, the ump can run it on auto for a few turns based on each side’s op orders.

When things get ripe, the group will get together somewhere, on 2 networked computers, have beverages, and play intense for a day, till resolution.

So it is a combination of ‘manual’ and AI styles; sometimes one, sometimes the other. Because of this, we run H2H to keep the main menu options wide open. We are very trusting souls, and there is also the ump that can throw monkey wrenches of his own.

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman
JWE, what do you mean by CPX mode, and that you use an umpire ? I am not familiar with this set up.

CPX is command post exercise. I play with a pretty well established group. There’s 2, 3, or 4 people on each side, each with their own responsibility. When somebody comes up with a neat scenario idea, anywhere from 2 to 6 months in duration, we build it, generate the ops orders, and fire it up.

We run the game H2H (not PBEM) so it’s easy to change main menu settings. After both sides are done, the umpire runs the turn (usually 2-3 day turns) and sends out results. Sometimes the umpire will pull a surprise of his own (cheat). Sometimes, if you are just in a build up or recovery phase, the ump can run it on auto for a few turns based on each side’s op orders.

When things get ripe, the group will get together somewhere, on 2 networked computers, have beverages, and play intense for a day, till resolution.

So it is a combination of ‘manual’ and AI styles; sometimes one, sometimes the other. Because of this, we run H2H to keep the main menu options wide open. We are very trusting souls, and there is also the ump that can throw monkey wrenches of his own.

Now that is the way to play a game like this!! I remember the weekend get togethers around a sand table usually micro armor. Once in a while we would set up the ships and slug it out. Anybody ever play a naval game on a basketball court?

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

A chess board has a grand total of 64 spaces and 32 units for an AI to consider.  Add even 10 pieces on each side, and you are multiplying the number of AI calculations by a massive amount. 

Now, consider the smallest AE scenario.  How many spaces are there on the board for the Coral Sea scenario?  How many ships are there?  Don't forget the air units, inclucing the air units onboard ships.  There are probably a few more LCU's than the total number of pieces in a game of chess, for the Allies and the Japanese.  Oh, and some of those spaces on the board are very different from others (bases/ports/airfields). 

Deep Blue plays chess by "brute force" calculations of all the possible moves.  I'm 42 years old.  Even if the developers had a thousand systems as powerful as Deep Blue to use, they will never be able to program an AI that can be as effective as a human in my lifetime. 

I am very impressed with the improvements Andy and company have been able to make with the AI in AE. 

Now, I need to go and play a turn for my evil Martian opponent.  I never giggle to myself, picturing the look on my opponent's face as I sneak in an attack where he didn't expect it, when I'm playing the AI. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45
Anybody ever play a naval game on a basketball court?

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

Now that is the way to play a game like this!! I remember the weekend get togethers around a sand table usually micro armor. Once in a while we would set up the ships and slug it out. Anybody ever play a naval game on a basketball court?

quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

Now that is the way to play a game like this!! I remember the weekend get togethers around a sand table usually micro armor. Once in a while we would set up the ships and slug it out. Anybody ever play a naval game on a basketball court?

Yeah, the old Jutland game. Was it an AH game? I think so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

I don't remember the rule set, I just remember 1/1250 scale ships and really long tape measures

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

Now that is the way to play a game like this!! I remember the weekend get togethers around a sand table usually micro armor. Once in a while we would set up the ships and slug it out. Anybody ever play a naval game on a basketball court?

Yeah, the old Jutland game. Was it an AH game? I think so.

I don't remember the rule set, I just remember 1/1250 scale ships and really long tape measures

quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
The game slowed down quite a bit as we were distracted by staring at all that perfectly formed booty.