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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/2/2009 5:44:55 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Good point.  I still haven't made a decision about them.  Fortunately, I can't do anything until I get the turn back from Ted, so I can still ponder.

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/2/2009 6:00:16 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		Mike,

I've been sending supply to China too, I want to make sure there is plenty there to replenish weakened LCU's, especially the survivors of the Ichang debacle! I've been sending to Shanghai, or directly up the river to the cities I think are called Wuchang and Haichow respectively, what ever those two are S.E. of Ichang, and see if that helps.

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Post #: 92
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/2/2009 6:02:17 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Question #1 for the masses:  Try to hold Ichang or give it up?  In our WitP PBEM, Ted pushed me out of Ichang early on.  I'm still debating what to do.  I think he is going to try and take it again.  Assuming this, do I reinforce or withdraw (or do nothing).  Also, should I suck supply there?  I think there is something in the vicinity of 3k supply there.

Question #2:  What do you guys think of an air assault of the Philippines (in addition to the normal sea invasion)?  I've done it in the past.  Not sure if I'd gain anything by doing that.  If I do it on Turn 1, I can be sure there will be little or no enemy fighter opposition.


Ichang isn't very useful in the end. Giving it up wouldn't bother me.

Para Drop on the PI? I think it would be most useful to drop on Altimonaon or one of those bases so you can ride the rails up from Legaspi, if you land there. But I wouldn't land there; I would prefer to land right on Altimonaon anyway and forget a landing at Legaspi.


I split the 2 para SNLFs in Taiwan to air assault three N. Luzon bases on turn 1 in my 2 PBEMs.

Aparri and two others nearby (no map-at work). I wanted to do this to decrease early fatigue / disruption to the amphibious landing forces due Aparri et al. and allow THEM to prep deeper into Luzon. I think this has the added benefit of turning out allied lights early. Without recon, they don't have a picture as to the IJA effort or size of force in N. Luzon if you feed in your main assault forces after the base has already changed hands.

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/2/2009 6:06:44 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I split the 2 para SNLFs in Taiwan to air assault three N. Luzon bases on turn 1 in my 2 PBEMs.

Aparri and two others nearby (no map-at work). I wanted to do this to decrease early fatigue / disruption to the amphibious landing forces due Aparri et al. and allow THEM to prep deeper into Luzon. I think this has the added benefit of turning out allied lights early. Without recon, they don't have a picture as to the IJA effort or size of force in N. Luzon if you feed in your main assault forces after the base has already changed hands.


Very nice idea Chickenboy. I like your comments on eliminating Allied intel.

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/2/2009 6:09:02 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Mike,

I've been sending supply to China too, I want to make sure there is plenty there to replenish weakened LCU's, especially the survivors of the Ichang debacle! I've been sending to Shanghai, or directly up the river to the cities I think are called Wuchang and Haichow respectively, what ever those two are S.E. of Ichang, and see if that helps.


I've read somewhere else about shipping supply up that river. I haven't thought of doing that (probably because of so many years playing WitP). Gotta try and get this old brain to remember to do that.

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Post #: 95
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/2/2009 7:06:41 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Mike,

I've been sending supply to China too, I want to make sure there is plenty there to replenish weakened LCU's, especially the survivors of the Ichang debacle! I've been sending to Shanghai, or directly up the river to the cities I think are called Wuchang and Haichow respectively, what ever those two are S.E. of Ichang, and see if that helps.


I've read somewhere else about shipping supply up that river. I haven't thought of doing that (probably because of so many years playing WitP). Gotta try and get this old brain to remember to do that.

I don't know if it's necessary or not, but I've been using xAKLs to haul resources from cities up this river where they pool. The larger xAKs might not make it, but the smaller draft vessels will.


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Post #: 96
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 12:31:27 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Well, the turn is finally off to my esteemed opponent. I expect to run it later today.

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Post #: 97
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 1:16:05 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Mike,

Not to rain on your parade or anything, but are there any acknowledged OOB issues that will require a de novo restart (including the entirety of IJ turn one) or are you totally good to go with patch II on board?

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Post #: 98
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 1:18:44 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		I'm fine with it. Whatever doesn't work we'll live without. If there is anything, I don't think it'll be significant. I'm just happy to be done with the turn and have it off. Now I can't wait to get it back so I can run it.

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Post #: 99
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 4:04:41 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Well, it was a wonderful PH attack. I don't like to post the replay, but here's a snippet of it:

Midget Sub attack inside harbor of Pearl Harbor!!!

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-19, hits 6, heavy damage

Allied Ships
PC Taney
BB California, Torpedo hits 1 Banzai!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 6 destroyed, 58 damaged
D3A1 Val: 6 destroyed, 39 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Warhawk: 3 destroyed on ground
B-18A Bolo: 3 destroyed on ground
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
P-36A Mohawk: 2 destroyed on ground
B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
O-47A: 1 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 6 destroyed on ground
SBD-1 Dauntless: 2 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 2 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk - Magazine explosion!
DD Case, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Jarvis, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DM Preble
DD Reid, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AV Wright, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires Massive explosive damage!
DD Bagley, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
SS Tautog, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AE Mauna Loa, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Torpedo hits 1
DD Schley, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Allen, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AV Curtiss, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

I'll give more analysis tomorrow. One little picture to tide you over. How's this for rush hour?!






Attachment (1)

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 8:56:09 AM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1879
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline 		That is a lot of ships.

Pearl looked pretty good, not much damage to the cruisers, but for the rest very good.

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Post #: 101
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 11:14:57 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		I guess most of them are running to their rally points? How many bases do you use as such Mike?

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 12:03:31 PM   
fabertong


Posts: 4546
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Bristol, England, U.K.
Status: offline 		Nice to see you underway .........I like your PH results better than mine!

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 103
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 1:18:31 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		27 torpedo hits on his BBs. Not bad at all!! And it looks like a few will be in need of shipyard time for close to 1000 days.

Instead of having the pushers in the Tokyo subways to get the people in the cars, you used them to push the ships out of the harbors.

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Post #: 104
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 2:24:22 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		I like Chickenboy's idea of a Para Drop turn 1 on Northern Luzon. Why didn't I think of that?

I would quit while you're ahead on Pearl Harbor. Round 2 is alot more costly in planes, and doesn't do much in terms of damage. It would be nice to sink one or two more, but I think you can consider all 8 BBs off the board for 1942 at least, and probably into '43.


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Post #: 105
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 2:55:11 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

That is a lot of ships.

Pearl looked pretty good, not much damage to the cruisers, but for the rest very good.



I'm hoping the Phoenix went down but didn't see that in the sunk ships report. That report did show the PoW as being sunk. With one torp hit, I rather doubt it.

My goal was to sink DDs. I did get 3, which is 2 more than I expected. The SS was a bonus (which really makes no difference) and the BBs turned out well with 2 sunk, another that may sink and the rest out for a good while (as ny59 giants and Q-Ball both mentioned).

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 3:00:05 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

I guess most of them are running to their rally points? How many bases do you use as such Mike?


Here's my theoretical plan for resource movement to Honshu:






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 107
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 4:01:23 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		Hi Mike,

You may find your transport allotment to Port Arthur on the small side, In my game it's December 30th and Port Arthur has 500,000+ resources, they accumulate there quite quickly, especially if you siphon off all the 10k+ resource ports around it and use it as a hub. Also fuel is there in abundance, careful not to take too much oil, I did and industry is short right now. Glad you are underway!

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Post #: 108
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 4:05:41 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Q-Ball, I'm not sticking around PH for another attack.  I'm very cautious with my IJN pilots.  KB is off to Wake, a 3 day trip.  After that, Kwajalein.  I think that it's better not to kill a bunch of the US pre-war BBs.  Let them tie up repair yards for a year or so.

I didn't have much time last night to check things out, but I did notice that Tokyo had 999,999 resources and 997,999 oil.  I had put all the spare AKs in Tokyo in a TF to load resources so that wouldn't happen (I did the same at Osaka).  It obviously didn't work, so I am sending all the extra AKs from the area to Tokyo to load up on resources in the next day or two.  There's a defecit of 82.6k resources a day at Tokyo so I hope the amount on hand drops between that and the loading AKs. 

Here's an overview of what happened in various places on the map:

Hong Kong

Bettys flying out of Formosa sank the Thracian for no loss.  Those 3 (now 2) DDs there can be a pain in the butt.  Hopefully, they'll be neutralized tomorrow.

Some light bombers hit the airfield destroying a Walrus on the ground.  Not worth the effort.  They'll switch to ground bombing tomorrow.

Malaya

This theater started off pretty well.  18 Zeros had a sweep mission and found 18 Buffalos patrolling over Singapore.  All 18 Zeros went home after shooting down 7 Buffalos.  Banzai!

Ted kept the PoW and Repulse sitting in Singapore harbor.  A couple of raids cost us 4 Bettys for 1 torpedo hit on the PoW.  I expect Force Z to flee tomorrow.  Just in case, I'm forming a double row of subs south of Kota Bahru (or Kuantan, which ever is farther south) to try and intercept Force Z should they try something stupid.  The 22 Air Flotilla (in Indochina) will remain on naval attack (just shy of Singapore this time) to get them should they move NE.

There were various attacks by both of us that cost the following (in addition to the Singapore sweep):

4x Blenheim Is shot down
1x Blenheim I destroyed on ground

1x Japanese xAK torpedoed (30 flot damage) at Patani dropping off an infantry battalion.  She should make it assuming she doesn't get hit again.

We did damage to various Allied airfields.  Some of the bombers will bomb Kota Bahru ground forces tomorrow and the rest will continue to bomb airfields.

We landed on Kota Bahru.

Philippines

All Japanese missions were anti-airfield missions with the following losses:

2x P-26 shot down
1x B-17D destroyed on ground
4x O-47A destroyed on ground (what's an O-47A anyway??)
3x P-35A destroyed on ground
6x P-40B destroyed on ground

Clark field was trashed.  No Japanese losses.

I wanted to do a faber and do an air assault on northern Luzon but forgot.

The invasion forces (Aparri, Vigan, Lingayan and that base midway up the southern peninsula) are enroute.

SE Fleet

Invasion forces are enroute to the Admiralty Islands and Kavieng.

4th Fleet

The Wake invasion force from Kwajalein (SNLF and NG) are puttering north.  They will hit in ~3 days, along with KB and the 4 Furutakas for bombardment support.

A NG is headed for Makin.

Other stuff

Guam was invaded with the SNLF that was destined for Batan Island.

Batan Island was invaded with the support unit that was destined for there.  I'll base some fighters there after I take it.

An Infantry Brigade attacked Pengpu, ousting a Chinese Corps.  We took 50 casualties to 995 Chinese casualties.

Concerning paratroops, the 1st Raiding Unit is moving by air to Shanghai from Japan.  It will leapfrog west to Indochina to spearhead the invasion of Pt. Blair.  One of the SNLFs is being air transported west to Indochina (from Formosa) to support the Pt. Blair assault (or possibly Malaya).  The other SNLF is remaining in Formosa.  I may consider an air assault in the Philippines.  I'll make that decision after I look things over tonight.

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Post #: 109
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 4:09:33 PM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1879
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Malaya
This theater started off pretty well.  18 Zeros had a sweep mission and found 18 Buffalos patrolling over Singapore.  All 18 Zeros went home after shooting down 7 Buffalos.  Banzai!


I'm actually quite happy reading this. In my game buffaloes are falling from the sky at an alarming rate as well, glad to see it wasn't due to my incompetence, but rather the incompetence of the airplane designers.

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 110
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 4:16:57 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Hi Mike,

You may find your transport allotment to Port Arthur on the small side, In my game it's December 30th and Port Arthur has 500,000+ resources, they accumulate there quite quickly, especially if you siphon off all the 10k+ resource ports around it and use it as a hub. Also fuel is there in abundance, careful not to take too much oil, I did and industry is short right now. Glad you are underway!


Thanks. I'll keep an eye on that. For the C/M/K, I just sent some xAKs to each of the big ports. That's the least "scientific" of all the convoys.


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Post #: 111
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 4:18:14 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Malaya
This theater started off pretty well.  18 Zeros had a sweep mission and found 18 Buffalos patrolling over Singapore.  All 18 Zeros went home after shooting down 7 Buffalos.  Banzai!


I'm actually quite happy reading this. In my game buffaloes are falling from the sky at an alarming rate as well, glad to see it wasn't due to my incompetence, but rather the incompetence of the airplane designers.


My fighters were sweeping at 15k feet. The Buffalos appeared at anywhere between 10k and 18k feet.

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Post #: 112
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/9/2009 9:24:39 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		I need to make notes about what I want to say.  I keep forgetting stuff.....

KB went in with all TBs set to port attack, all DBs set to airfield attack and 3 F to escort, 2 to sweep and 1 to airfield attack.  I'm very pleased with the result.  TBs are the ship killers.  Four of the 6 TB daitai went in with torpedoes.  The 800 kg bombs can make a satisfying boom and can do massive damage to ship as well as the torpedoes.  I chose to have all the DBs hit the airfield because their bombs will often bounce off a BB hide.  Why waste all those lovely bombs?  The only down side of all those daitai using torpedoes is that some of my carriers are already low on torpedoes in their holds.  For example, the Akagi has only 15 torpedoes remaining.  I'm keeping the TBs set to use torpedoes just in case Ted sends his CVs on the charge of the light brigade.   They'll replenish their torpedoes at Truk.

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Post #: 113
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/10/2009 1:28:09 AM   
bklooste

 

Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/10/2006
Status: offline 		Another strike on PH may be worth it ( just move sw but still in range for morning strike) , you hit very few planes.. I think you got 6 Catalinas historically they got 70 thats a lot of eyes gone. Just dont use many of the Kates they are the most valuable. And probably the best chance to kill some more allied Pilots with zero sweeps they are only going to come back later with better planes.

Removed about Yamato being brought forward in patch

Lastly this is not WITP you will need massive Naval and ShipYards , the Japanese historically ( despite allied bombing) built more tons in 44 than the rest fo the war together in AE you need to upgrade your yards to match history. Build the yards use for quick repairs and convert to merchant later.

< Message edited by bklooste -- 12/10/2009 2:29:04 PM >

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Post #: 114
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/10/2009 1:47:58 AM   
erstad

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
quote:

Build the yards use for quick repairs and convert to merchant later.


You can convert from naval shipyards to merchant and vice versa. However, repair shipyards are different.

(in reply to bklooste)
Post #: 115
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/10/2009 8:02:27 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

quote:

Build the yards use for quick repairs and convert to merchant later.


You can convert from naval shipyards to merchant and vice versa. However, repair shipyards are different.


Mike knows that converting is a waste of supplies, cause you have to rebuild them again (they revert to damaged) - which is a small gripe of mine, but there you go, why would you waste supplies rebuilding after conversion rather than just expanding ?


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Post #: 116
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/10/2009 2:30:09 PM   
bklooste

 

Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/10/2006
Status: offline 		Fair point ...that just means you need to build Naval yards in 41-42 AND Merchs in 42-44.

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 117
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/10/2009 6:40:23 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		I haven't decided on the expansion of naval and/or merchant shipyards yet.  I sent the turn back to Ted last night so I'll probably have a day or so to play with things.  I shut off the Yamato, Musashi and Shinano just to see what I have to play with for naval points.  That's also to start with a pool.  It appears that I'll start with a surplus of merchant points.  I'll figure that out next turn also.

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Post #: 118
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/10/2009 6:52:48 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Ted's comment on the PH attack:

"Battleship Row got beaten like a rented mule this time."



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Post #: 119
RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 12/10/2009 8:53:00 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		Good luck! Your preparation has been impressive and now all of it gets put to use. The attack at Pearl looks like a good start. I'll be following this one closely.



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Post #: 120
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