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RE: German production and other Qs - 11/17/2009 9:49:08 AM   
harley


Posts: 1700
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline 		OK, Better...

It was set to ignore any site over 25% damage. I changed that to 50%, which is the shutdown point. 2 at start facs are over 25% damaged.

What I then did was change the count to show adjusted output, so now it's still under the 37 possible, but over the 27 currently. As the factories repair, this will go up...




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Post #: 31
RE: German production and other Qs - 11/18/2009 9:15:42 AM   
Tuk

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 10/20/2009
Status: offline 		Excellent.

What about this? I notice that adding rockets to Me 110B-2s, FW A6s and those Hungarian 210s (I haven't checked other types) makes no difference to their flight capabilities displayed in the unit window. Is this right?

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Post #: 32
RE: German production and other Qs - 11/18/2009 2:20:36 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		yea basicly, I wasn't able (allowed) to make changes, the rockets work from the code, and not the data

(that is why nothing starts with Rockets on)



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Post #: 33
RE: German production and other Qs - 11/18/2009 3:55:48 PM   
Nicholas Bell

 

Posts: 549
Joined: 4/10/2006
From: Eagle River, Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

yea basicly, I wasn't able (allowed) to make changes, the rockets work from the code, and not the data
(that is why nothing starts with Rockets on)


I'm a little unclear about this - but I think you are saying that although the data as presented in the air unit display does not change, it does have an effect on an aircraft's performance in-game.

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Post #: 34
RE: German production and other Qs - 11/18/2009 8:29:27 PM   
harley


Posts: 1700
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, rockets have a fixed affect on performance... WGR's effect is different from R4Ms....

iirc the effect goes away after they are fired - this is why the airframe effects are not shown.


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Post #: 35
RE: German production and other Qs - 11/19/2009 11:09:28 AM   
Tuk

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 10/20/2009
Status: offline 		Harley, it looks like fighters are only identifiable as rocket armed in the unit details screen. Is that right? If so, would it be possible to show "rocket armed" in some way on the interceptor assignment window?







I'm a few days into this game and have made some changes. Here's another production puzzle -



Junkers Jumo 213A engines are used by Ta 154 and Dora. Between those 2 models I have 13 assemblies, 12 Dora + 1 Ta 154, the latter is on long term delay, see pic for status of Dora sites. I have tons of engines, but a small deficit in parts active production although I still have 2 in stockpile.





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Post #: 36
RE: German production and other Qs - 11/19/2009 11:11:31 AM   
Tuk

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 10/20/2009
Status: offline 		I have tons of engines, but a small deficit in active parts production although I still have 2 in stockpile.





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Post #: 37
RE: German production and other Qs - 11/19/2009 11:15:32 AM   
Tuk

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 10/20/2009
Status: offline 		So any idea why my requirement for the JJ 213A engines is only 4? It looks like only the active assemblies show a requirement, which, if intentional, would mean that assemblies are handled differently from parts and engines which show as 'planned' even if on delay. Is that it?




If this is a game problem rather than my misunderstanding of the game, I suggest the whole production system be checked out, this is one example of what I suspect is commonplace. Happy to help if I can.

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< Message edited by Tuk -- 11/19/2009 11:24:42 AM >

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Post #: 38
RE: German production and other Qs - 11/25/2009 3:50:48 PM   
otisabuser2


Posts: 1097
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		Things look to make sense at the start of BoB.









Focusing just on single engine fighters. Luckily they all initially use the same engine, the Merlin III and ALL factories are undamaged.

The key column here is "Required". This shows 10 parts each required for Spitfires and Hurricanes, and 3 more for Defiant models. This correctly reflects that Actual production (assembly ) of each is 10, 10 and 3. You would then suppose that the number of Merlin engines required would be 23, which is exactly as shown required.

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< Message edited by otisabuser2 -- 11/25/2009 3:56:36 PM >

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Post #: 39
RE: German production and other Qs - 11/25/2009 3:58:03 PM   
otisabuser2


Posts: 1097
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		Now to compare this with after one month of play.......






There are no damaged factories, although some are changing over.

This is now showing 10 parts each required for Spitfires and Hurricanes, even though 8 assemblies of each are changing over to better marks.

There is still a requirement for a total of 23 ( 6 + 17 ) Merlins according to the "Required" column. This is again not an immediate requirement because 8 Hurricane and 8 Spitfire assemblies are changing over.

The 6 Merlin III are spot on ( 3 Defiant, 2 Spit I and 1 Hurri I in production ).

But, this is showing 17 merlin XII "Required". The game is only making 2 Spit II and 1 Hurri II currently. With the remainder due in 4 and 14 days)-

This will causing huge problems as total engine production in BoB is only half that actually needed by assemblies.

So "Required" means number that will be required once change-over delays finished.

What would be advantageous here is an extra "Currently Required" or "Needed Now" column ? Then amending "Required" to "Eventually Required".

Does that make sense ?

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< Message edited by otisabuser2 -- 11/25/2009 4:27:50 PM >

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Post #: 40
RE: German production and other Qs - 11/25/2009 5:11:37 PM   
otisabuser2


Posts: 1097
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		Would something like this make things clearer or worse ?






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Post #: 41
RE: German production and other Qs - 11/25/2009 9:28:08 PM   
Tuk

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 10/20/2009
Status: offline 		So "Required" means number that will be required once change-over delays finished.
 
As above, I have 13 assemblies in various stages of (un)readiness, using JJ 213As yet a 'requirement of 4 such engines, This agrees with the number of engines currently active, so if "Required" means number that will be required once change-over delays finished, it is clearly not consistant. 

Why no comment from the devs? Last time my posts were at first dismissed as not being worthy of an answer, the  points I raised in fact revealed a bug. Even if its our misunderstanding, there is no adequate explanation available of how production should work. It's needed.

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Post #: 42
RE: German production and other Qs - 11/25/2009 9:53:23 PM   
otisabuser2


Posts: 1097
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Tuk,

playing around with this.....

If I change a Spit factory of 3 frames over to Hurri, this causes a 30 day delay to those frames, there is no change of Merlin requirements displayed.

If I change a 5 frame factory over, causing a 50 day delay to those frames, my Merlin requirement shows as dropping by 5 !

So frames delays of somewhere over 30 are ruled out when calculating requirements.

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Post #: 43
RE: German production and other Qs - 11/25/2009 10:34:11 PM   
harley


Posts: 1700
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline 		Tuk - I don't want to dismiss your questions, but the production interface is one that has been discussed to death already. The consensus is that it is manifestly deficient, and needs a complete overhaul. This is the main reason for not responding - there's not much I can do for the first patch, so I've tinkered a little bit on the damaged factory side and that's all.

Someone envisioned a better planning/design process. I think it was Richard or Nicholas, but I need to translate that into a workflow and then build it. It will take a while, and won't be in the first patch. The basic idea is that it will better manage how things are being built, so you can see at a glance what is going on. It's all conceptual now, though.




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Post #: 44
RE: German production and other Qs - 11/25/2009 11:20:54 PM   
Tuk

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 10/20/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks harley, I wasn't aware of any such consensus.

@ otisabuser2
I think I read somewhere that there's a 30 day issue about what shows in one column or another, so anything over 30 wont show. Maybe that's it, but again, from what I've gathered so far, I don't think it's consistant accross all models.

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Post #: 45
Re 2005 production - 11/29/2009 11:21:32 PM   
stevechan

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 11/29/2009
Status: offline 		It's been great coming back to this game after all these years. Anyway, does the RE 2005 produce or not? I've heavily emphasised this in my production. I have over a 1000 Fiat engines produced and about 70 points of parts production (Reggiane parts) yet in stock is about 4. I'm not getting any production at all. Will it produce?

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Post #: 46
RE: Re 2005 production - 11/30/2009 2:19:12 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		welcome

yes it should build

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Post #: 47
RE: Re 2005 production - 11/30/2009 2:33:14 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		okay, it does build, but it looks like you missing a lot of die rolls, it is a poor producing aircraft, I have upped the % number of it

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Post #: 48
RE: Re 2005 production - 11/30/2009 2:42:34 AM   
stevechan

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 11/29/2009
Status: offline 		Never mind, after all those turns of engines accumulating and Re parts not building (despite so many online factories) i've converted to G55 to make use of all those engines. Thanks for all your hard work. I've started with this game since v1.0 TOH but with a break of a few years.

I'll have to live without the RE 2005 and see what the G55 and G56 can do.

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Post #: 49
RE: Re 2005 production - 11/30/2009 1:08:58 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		ahhh, the G.55 is not a great producer either :)

I upped both of those some (my test runs, I think I was getting a lot of good rolls, so thought they were building much better then what I seen, when I retried it)

plus, remember, with the verison you have, the production is not working as it really should (it is making more then it should be, if you are converting things) my verison has the latest fixes, so I don't get the extras



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Post #: 50
RE: Re 2005 production - 11/30/2009 3:36:31 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		haha, I think that is funny, the AI builds more then I can

early on, the engine is the bottleneck, but if you got 1000 of them in stock, you got engines building, unless you got something in the works, that has a higher Priority for the engines, I am not sure why you are not getting any built

(and just in case, it would be 205, 55 then 2005 for order of need for the engine)



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Post #: 51
RE: Re 2005 production - 12/1/2009 1:45:38 AM   
stevechan

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 11/29/2009
Status: offline 		The G55 produced in droves - no problems there. All those engines I produced for the Re2005 have been put to good use. It's now January 44 and the G55s and 109G10s are now meeting their match especially with the sheer quantity of allied aircraft. I had a day of about 450 allied aircraft go down but for 200 of mine. I've now got the 190D producing and the 410B2 is just coming on line though I think a little too late and the allied fighters are going to make short work of them once I get them into the units.

I was hoping that the G56 would be online now but no, despite lots of Fiat airframe factories being online, there is no production of parts. I've tried to stream line my industry to - He219 A5, 410 B2, 190D, TA152, Me109 K4, Me109 G10 and the G56s.

I'm thinking that the G56 has got the same problem as the Re2005s. I'll give them another few weeks and perhaps change all production. Should the G56 be online now or do these need lots of research?

Thanks

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Post #: 52
RE: Re 2005 production - 12/1/2009 4:31:18 AM   
Baron von Beer

 

Posts: 232
Joined: 9/18/2003
Status: offline 		G.56 has a default start date of Jan '45 I believe, so might still be on the drawing boards.

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Post #: 53
RE: Re 2005 production - 12/1/2009 12:30:12 PM   
stevechan

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 11/29/2009
Status: offline 		I to to about 24th January 1944 and gave up on it as there was no other Italian aircraft production. The engines were being produced but stock remained at 3 even though the factories were online . I've now backed out and converted all the G56 prodution to something else. I missed the Ju388J when I set up my night fighter production to all He219A5. I'm now giving these a go. Is there anything I need to know about this model and production?

HardSarge, I wonder, when Italian factories get overrun during avalanche doe the game still try and produce with these overrun factories? I noticed that I have a requirement for one Fiat part though I have switched all production away. I did see something similar with a need for Macchi parts at one time when I had no Macchi production. If these are considered to be more important aircraft is it possible that these 'hidden' factories are hogging all the demand thus preventing other aircraft being produced? 

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Post #: 54
RE: Re 2005 production - 12/1/2009 1:23:15 PM   
Have

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 10/8/2009
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
okay, it does build, but it looks like you missing a lot of die rolls, it is a poor producing aircraft


Hmm.. Is there some value for "ease of production"? Or what do you mean by your "it is a poor producing aircraft" statement?

I have not seen any values describing the plane type productivity, so that's why I'm curious.

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Post #: 55
RE: Re 2005 production - 12/1/2009 2:36:55 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		some planes, are on the must have list

(Real Life, the 109 G6 would have a Higher priority then the G5 would, just as the FW 190 A6 would have a priority over the A5 or the A4, so, if any conflict for parts or engines, the higher priority is going to have a better chance of being the one to get them)

in this case, the Mc 205, G.55 and the Re 2005 all need the same engine, but different parts and frames, so the issue will be the engine (and since the 205 is in full scale production, it is the main priority, the 55 and the 2005 are newer models, that are not in full production, so are lower)

at the start of the game, there is a good plant making Engines, but the RR around it tore up, so, they are not going anywhere, so the production is not getting as many engines as it could/should

another issue, is that each plane does not have the same chance of being built each turn (hence the die roll statement)

that said, I think I had the chance too low for the player, if the player is going to try and build these, those numbers are more to make the AI play fair

I will look to be sure it is not a "bad" slot




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