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- 11/13/2000 3:10:00 AM   
rexmonday

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 7/4/2000
Status: offline 		Here's a potentially obscure question: What about Monaco and Andorra? Were they allied to any side or did they stay neutral?

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Post #: 31
- 11/13/2000 3:26:00 AM   
Hussar

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 11/3/2000
From: Leominster U.K
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Dave_R: [QUOTE]Originally posted by hhsohn: [B]Pardon my ignorance, but I've yet to figure out which part of the island is Welsh. Could you enlighten me? It the bit that sticks out on the western side of the island! Just above the bit that sticks out at the bottom (grins) Hope that helps.
The bit that sticks out at the bottom is actually Cornwall. Techically a Dukedom. (as in "The Duchy of Cornwall"). The Cornish (me included) think of themselves as a separate nation the rest of the U.K as "foreigners".

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Post #: 32
- 11/13/2000 4:10:00 AM   
troopie

 

Posts: 996
Joined: 4/8/2000
From: Directly above the centre of the Earth.
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by rexmonday: Here's a potentially obscure question: What about Monaco and Andorra? Were they allied to any side or did they stay neutral?
Monaco was occupied by the Germans when they took over Vichy France. Monaco's foreign defence affairs are managed by France. Although Andorra was in a state of war with Germany, (since 1916. It lasted until 1958) AFAIK Germany did not invade Andorra. I think they just forgot about Andorra. And what about Lichtenstein? troopie ------------------ Pamwe Chete

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Post #: 33
- 11/13/2000 5:32:00 AM   
halstein

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 10/5/2000
From: Trondheim, Norway
Status: offline 		Although Andorra was in a state of war with Germany, (since 1916. It lasted until 1958) AFAIK Germany did not invade Andorra. I think they just forgot about Andorra. troopie And the question is: Who won this war? ------------------ Halstein

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Halstein

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Post #: 34
- 11/13/2000 10:14:00 AM   
Rhone

 

Posts: 114
Joined: 8/17/2000
Status: offline 		Invading Andorra would have bogged the Germans down for weeks. Actually they had planned an invasion of the small country but could not locate it on the map.

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Post #: 35
- 11/13/2000 3:44:00 PM   
Recon_slith


Posts: 116
Joined: 4/3/2000
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by ARIS: I think Brazil entered the war when it was almost over, and Denmark didn't fight, they just surrendered to the Germans after a phone call. Also Turkey entered the war just before the Germans surrendered.
The Danish Royal Guard put up a symbolic resistance around the palace until the King sent an aide out to stop the firing. They still had thier own government for most of the war- with certain restrictions of course. Can't really count even as a combatant (on any side). Sweden sent a small volunteer force of approx. 8000 to help Finland in the winter war. They were withdrawn at its end after seeing a small amount of action and suffered 80 odd casualties. One AA Battery served out the whole war however. ------------------ Wait for Death. There's a choice? Recon

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Post #: 36
- 11/13/2000 6:29:00 PM   
Lars Remmen

 

Posts: 357
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Recon: The Danish Royal Guard put up a symbolic resistance around the palace until the King sent an aide out to stop the firing. They still had thier own government for most of the war- with certain restrictions of course. Can't really count even as a combatant (on any side). Sweden sent a small volunteer force of approx. 8000 to help Finland in the winter war. They were withdrawn at its end after seeing a small amount of action and suffered 80 odd casualties. One AA Battery served out the whole war however.
Indeed Denmark did fight on April 9th, 1940. Our airforce was destroyed and we could not make a fighting withdrawl like the Norwegians so we didn't really stand a chance. Figures when you compare the two countries on a map. We had our own government until August 29th, 1943. After that resistance increased and executions of Dansih resistance fighters started. Let's not forget the Dansih sailors who joined the allies. Quite a number of them died. Sadly, 3.000+ Danes were killed on the eastern front fighting against the Soviets. Small numbers of Danes also fought with the RAF and the allied armies. Remember Anders (Andy) Lasses, SBS who became the highest decorated soldier in British service with a posthumeous VC, and MC with two bars. ------------------ Lars Nec Temere - Nec Timide

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Post #: 37
- 11/13/2000 7:37:00 PM   
Gallo Rojo


Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by halstein: I also think some other Latin-American contries also joined. The Brazilians, I think were the only one who saw any figthing. Halstein
Most (if not all) the Latin American countries declared the war to the Axis powers. Mexico did it on may 1942 and Brazil did it on August 1942 (after the Germans U-boats sank some Brazilian merchant ships). Although only the Brazilians sent troops to the front: the “Força Expedicionária Brasileira (Brazilian Expeditionary Force) fought in Italy (I’m pretty sure to had read that there was a Brazilian company in Anzio –were they suffered heavy casualties- and may be in Cassino too). I think that all Central American countries declared the war between 1942 and 1943. Argentina was one of the last ones in declaring the war: we did it on March 1945. (I think that Chile was one of the other latest: they broken diplomatic relationships with the Axis powers on 1943, but I don’t remember when they declared war). No need to said that no Argentinean soldier saw action. In fact the only “act of war” made by Argentinean army consisted in capture a couple of German merchant ships that were anchored in the port of Buenos Aires. Although the majority of the people in Argentina sympathized with the Allies the military regime that governed the country during those years doesn’t want to declare war against the Germans. That was not only because the Argentinean militaries sympathized in some way with the nazis, but also because the local elite had strong economical and political interest linked to the United Kingdom, so they were opposed to accept the U.S. prevalence in the region. (In fact the Argentinean elite thought that Argentina will be a local power that could dispute US’s prevalence in the Sud American continent! All Latin American countries always said that we Argentineans have a really BIG EGO, well... I think that this idea of dispute US prevalence was a conclusive prove that such statement is certain!).

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Post #: 38
- 11/13/2000 8:12:00 PM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Gallo Rojo: Most (if not all) the Latin American countries declared the war to the Axis powers. Mexico did it on may 1942 and Brazil did it on August 1942 (after the Germans U-boats sank some Brazilian merchant ships). Although only the Brazilians sent troops to the front: the “Força Expedicionária Brasileira (Brazilian Expeditionary Force) fought in Italy (I’m pretty sure to had read that there was a Brazilian company in Anzio –were they suffered heavy casualties- and may be in Cassino too). I think that all Central American countries declared the war between 1942 and 1943. Argentina was one of the last ones in declaring the war: we did it on March 1945. (I think that Chile was one of the other latest: they broken diplomatic relationships with the Axis powers on 1943, but I don’t remember when they declared war). No need to said that no Argentinean soldier saw action. In fact the only “act of war” made by Argentinean army consisted in capture a couple of German merchant ships that were anchored in the port of Buenos Aires. Although the majority of the people in Argentina sympathized with the Allies the military regime that governed the country during those years doesn’t want to declare war against the Germans. That was not only because the Argentinean militaries sympathized in some way with the nazis, but also because the local elite had strong economical and political interest linked to the United Kingdom, so they were opposed to accept the U.S. prevalence in the region. (In fact the Argentinean elite thought that Argentina will be a local power that could dispute US’s prevalence in the Sud American continent! All Latin American countries always said that we Argentineans have a really BIG EGO, well... I think that this idea of dispute US prevalence was a conclusive prove that such statement is certain!).
Just to talk about Brazilian participation in war, Our soldiers never fought in Anzio our Cassino, the Vth American Army sent the 1st Brazilian Infantry Div to a sector into the Pó river valley, and some of the more important battles for Brazilians GIs or "Pracinhas" in portuguese were "Monte Castello" and Montese.

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Post #: 39
- 11/13/2000 8:31:00 PM   
Gallo Rojo


Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by ARIS: I think Brazil entered the war when it was almost over, and Denmark didn't fight, they just surrendered to the Germans after a phone call. Also Turkey entered the war just before the Germans surrendered.
No ARIS, Brazilians had entered relatively early in the WWII, in ’42. The South American country that that entered very late was the Argentine (March 1945). (See my previous post) In fact Brazil had an active exterior politic of alignment after the US and became US best allies in the South American continent (Brazilian militaries want to receive US investments in warfare industries, and also was a good strategy against Argentina, which was its rival power in the sub continent and a traditional British allied in South America during those years).

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Post #: 40
- 11/13/2000 8:36:00 PM   
Gallo Rojo


Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline 		[/QUOTE] Just to talk about Brazilian participation in war, Our soldiers never fought in Anzio our Cassino, the Vth American Army sent the 1st Brazilian Infantry Div to a sector into the Pó river valley, and some of the more important battles for Brazilians GIs or "Pracinhas" in portuguese were "Monte Castello" and Montese. [/B][/QUOTE] Sorry about the mistake,adantas. You’re sure better informed than I am . By the way... Do you know a good book about Brazilian participation during WWII if any?

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Post #: 41
- 11/14/2000 3:27:00 AM   
rexmonday

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 7/4/2000
Status: offline 		Keep it going. This is fascinating stuff.

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Post #: 42
- 11/14/2000 5:54:00 PM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Gallo Rojo:
Just to talk about Brazilian participation in war, Our soldiers never fought in Anzio our Cassino, the Vth American Army sent the 1st Brazilian Infantry Div to a sector into the Pó river valley, and some of the more important battles for Brazilians GIs or "Pracinhas" in portuguese were "Monte Castello" and Montese. [/QUOTE] Sorry about the mistake,adantas. You’re sure better informed than I am . By the way... Do you know a good book about Brazilian participation during WWII if any? [/B][/QUOTE] No problems amigo , I'm not sure about FEB, "Brazilian Expeditionary Force", but it's a good one about our Air Force, its called "Senta à Pua!". and there's a good page about in http://www.sentaapua.hpg.com.br Senta à pua!!!

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Post #: 43
- 11/15/2000 2:11:00 AM   
Gallo Rojo


Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by adantas: No problems amigo , I'm not sure about FEB, "Brazilian Expeditionary Force", but it's a good one about our Air Force, its called "Senta à Pua!". and there's a good page about in http://www.sentaapua.hpg.com.br Senta à pua!!!
Muitu Obrigado Galo Vermelho

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Post #: 44
- 11/15/2000 2:34:00 AM   
Fabs

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 6/5/2000
From: London, U.K.
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by rexmonday: In list above delete "england" and replace with "U.K" (or, indeed for real pedants, "United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and somethign something something"). Not all of us are english...
Actually, if you want to be pedantic about it, it should be called British Empire and Domonions, and include India, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Not sure about South Africa. The Empire collapsed after WWII. During the war it was still alive, if not exactly well. ------------------ Fabs

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Post #: 45
- 11/15/2000 5:08:00 AM   
troopie

 

Posts: 996
Joined: 4/8/2000
From: Directly above the centre of the Earth.
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Fabs: [QUOTE]Originally posted by rexmonday: In list above delete "england" and replace with "U.K" (or, indeed for real pedants, "United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and somethign something something"). Not all of us are english...
Actually, if you want to be pedantic about it, it should be called British Empire and Domonions, and include India, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Not sure about South Africa. The Empire collapsed after WWII. During the war it was still alive, if not exactly well. [/B][/QUOTE] Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa, were independent members of the Commonwealth, established in 1931. Ireland was too, but withdrew in 1937. South Africa withdrew from the Commonwealth in 1961, and rejoined in 1994. troopie ------------------ Pamwe Chete

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Post #: 46
- 11/15/2000 9:18:00 AM   
Rhone

 

Posts: 114
Joined: 8/17/2000
Status: offline 		What exactly does the "commonwealth" mean, and if SA rejoined in 94, I'm guessing there is a direct benefit of doing so. Thanks.

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Post #: 47
- 11/15/2000 9:35:00 AM   
troopie

 

Posts: 996
Joined: 4/8/2000
From: Directly above the centre of the Earth.
Status: offline 		The Commonwealth is as association of independent nations, colonies, protectorates, and other national entities. They have in common that they were all once or currently part of the British Empire. Jan Christiaan Smuts came up with the idea as a friendly association of equal nations. There are trade and defence ties and usually tariff and immigration preferences. Commonwealth nations usually have agreements to come to each others assistance in emergencies. Commonwealth nations often refer disputes to a common consultative body. Queen Elizabeth II & I is titular head of the Commonwealth, though many of the states (E.G. South Africa) are republics. An example of a defence tie that almost led to war was Grenada in 1983. Grenada, as a commonwealth country, had a defence agreement with the UK and the rest of the commonwealth. Had the Coard-Austin government been able to hold out long enough against the US and the Caribbean states, they would have called on the UK to honour its defence treaty. But this would be countered by the presence of Jamaican and Dominican forces in the landing. The response was that the Commonwealth was solving its own problem. troopie ------------------ Pamwe Chete

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Post #: 48
- 11/16/2000 2:16:00 AM   
rexmonday

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 7/4/2000
Status: offline 		Fair cop about the british empire/UK. I did think tht maybe I should say something about the empire, but Autralia (a self-governing British dominion at the time) was already in the list. This is the danger of pedantry, there is always someone more exact than your self. Anyone got a response to the role of Liechtenstein in the war? I had a quick look in the local library after my interest had been piqued. No joy there. What about San Marino (a state totally enclosed in Italy) what went on there?

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Post #: 49
- 11/16/2000 3:40:00 AM   
halstein

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 10/5/2000
From: Trondheim, Norway
Status: offline 		San Marino was neutral. An USAAF plane bombed it once, accidentialy. After the War, USA payed a compensation. ------------------ Halstein

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Post #: 50
- 11/16/2000 1:24:00 PM   
frank1970


Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline 		AS far as I know San Marino declared war on Germany in 1945. I don´t know it from a book but I spoke with a German Italy veteran.

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Post #: 51
- 11/16/2000 8:48:00 PM   
halstein

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 10/5/2000
From: Trondheim, Norway
Status: offline 		I don't have my knowledge from a book either. Only somthing I heard on a TV program once. My memory, or the TV-show could be wrong. It was a travel-show, not a history-show. ------------------ Halstein

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