LoBaron
Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DicedT
It's October '42, and I have a gaggle of P-38, P-40 and Hurricane squadrons in Burma. They are being shot out of the sky by Oscars, Tojos and a few Zeroes. I've tried flying at high altitudes. I've tried flying everyone at high altitude. I've tried flying the P-38s and Hurricane IICs at 30,000 feet, and the P-40s and Hurricane IIBs at 10,000 or 15,000 feet. Same results. The P-38s bounce the Oscars, and then the Oscars get on the tail of the P-38s and shoot them down. I won't even describe what happens to P-39s.
I know the P-38 wasn't a wonder plane, but it should have some capability to fight Oscars. This concerns me a lot because the Allies do not receive many advanced fighter aircraft until 1944. Until then, the older aircraft - plus P-38s and Spitfires - are all they have. Looking at the aircraft data, Japanese aircraft are always more maneuverable, which seems to be the only factor in the WITP air combat model. Which makes me wonder how the Allied air forces managed to win in real life.
One thing I have noticed is that Allied fighters die like flies when flying offensive fighter sweeps or bomber escort. They don't do quite as badly when flying CAP. Yet even on CAP, P-38s, P-40s and Hurricanes can only bounce bounce Oscars once before the Oscars get on their tail. The WITP air combat model doesn't seem to factor in dive-and-zoom tactics by heavier, faster Allied fighters.
I love playing WITP, but there is something badly wrong with the air combat system.
DicedT, the reason why your fighters get shot out of the sky is NOT because allied fighters suck as you put it but probably because you are using them in the wrong way/enviroment.
True, the P38 is not uber as it was in stock WitP but this is correct to historical.
Dive and Zoom tactics do work, but you have to calculate many other factors.
- Its a numbers game. Putting up a couple of P38´s against higher numbers of high experience Oscars/Zeroes/Tojos is dangerous, even in sweeps.
As long as the experience of allied pilots lower than the Japanese you will be happy to reach 1:2 kills.
- There are a couple of good tactics against high alt bounces: As an example, Rob, my PBEM opponent set a nice trap for my sweeping P38´s by combining high and lowlevel
CAP. He used the lowflyers to draw my bounces (Zeroes, and the suffered) and set high alt Oscar patrols to attack the bouncing Lightnings. While it was not clearly onesided
the tactic worked nicely, lots of damaged twintails. 
When, afterwards, my close escorting P40´s arrived @ 6k they were ripped to pieces by the surviving CAP. Thats not bad allied planes, thats what is called a good counter.
- High experience pilots are able to draw lower exp pilots into their preffered style of A2A combat. Not forever, but they do. What you often see is Lightnings diving on a low flyer,
getting a kill or not depending on several factors and they try to pull away. They guy that makes a cool day hot for the P38 driver usually is a second Japanese fighter
who successfully initiates a turnfight.
- Range to target: the farther away the more your AC hurt.
And then you have, fatigue, morale, squad leader, weather,...
Don´t say A2A is bogged if you are not 100% sure you did take this all into account. 
Theres no perfect tactic. Dont think that using P38´s is the solution to a well thoughtout defense. They are great planes and im sure Rob can confirm this (im trying to make them a
pita as much as possible) and they get home with more damage than any other fighter aircraft in the respective timeframe but if you need air superiority you have to beat your opponent with
numbers and well thought out tactics. If you don´t have one and are at least on par with the other you won´t get anywhere.
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Allied fighters suck - 
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