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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Need some thoughts - considering buying?

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Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/19/2009 3:10:40 PM

slybelle

Posts: 193
Joined: 10/16/2005
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Hello, I'm strongly considering purchasing this game soon, but was hoping to get some feedback on it. I never played any of the past versions so I don't have any good context. I'm not afraid of something being very detailed, but also want something that does have a good "fun" factor with the feeling "just one more turn":)

I'm hoping some folks can provide their high level pros/cons (not worried about graphics).

Thanks!

Post #: 1

RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/19/2009 4:12:42 PM

larryfulkerson

Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline

Hey slybelle: I've been playing TOAW since the Century of Warfare ( COW ) came out. I don't remember when that was but it seems like it was in the 80's. I've taken a month off here and there but I keep coming back to it. It is simply the best wargame I've ever played. And I've played a lot of them. I'm retired now and it's all I do every day about 16 hours a day. I've published an AAR or two on my games with various people and the various playtests I've done and you can get a feel of the game from them if you wish. The scenario I'm playing right now is August Fog which simulates the battle of the bulge and it has a tactical feel that is really really captivating. Patrick and I are doing it PBEM and sometimes we churn out three turns a day. Well, sometimes I churn out three turns a day. It's not just a game you see, it also includes an editor so you can design your own scenarios and there are thousands of them now, free to download and play. Name a period, a place, a battle and odds are there is a scenario for it. Curt Chambers is toying with designing a scenario that covers the American Revolutionary War I have seen a scenario about India and Pakistan. I've played battles that were fought in Africa in the 1960's and I'm not kidding there's probably a scenario for everything. There are even fantisy ( how do you spell fantisy ? ) scenarios. There is a learning curve to get a handle on the ins and outs of the various 'best practices' but there's a boat load of articles and documents and what not that spell out in detail 'how to do it'. Plus this is the best forumn in the world for asking questions. You can ask ANY question and odds are that somebody has the answer. Plus, there's an update coming soon that will add new stuff. It's a win win game. You couldn't ask for a better wargame. But I ramble.

(in reply to slybelle)

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RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/19/2009 5:34:15 PM

slybelle

Posts: 193
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline

Thanks Larry, you defintely have peaked my interest now:)

Two last questions:

1) I really only play solo on these games, not much into PBEM. Is there enough single player stuff to do?

2) What is the end of the game like? Meaning, do you get some kind of screen that shows total loses on each side, etc?

Thanks!

(in reply to larryfulkerson)

Post #: 3

RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/19/2009 5:49:44 PM

parmenio

Posts: 266
Joined: 8/6/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slybelle

Thanks Larry, you defintely have peaked my interest now:)

Two last questions:

1) I really only play solo on these games, not much into PBEM. Is there enough single player stuff to do?

2) What is the end of the game like? Meaning, do you get some kind of screen that shows total loses on each side, etc?

Thanks!

I bought TOAW I, III, Century of Warfare and now TOAW III (didn't bother with WOTY). This (as Larry posted above) is the best wargame I've ever purchased. I'm a solo player - often running what-ifs against the PO as I read Military History books on a particular campaign or battle. The fact that I keep coming back to it is testament to the fact that there's plenty to do for the single player. I only have 3 wargames installed on my PC at the mo' - this one, Panzer General (it's for my 9-year-old son honest!) and Age of Rifles. All timeless classics - especially TOAW. There are some wonderfully talented designers who've contributed (and are still producing) fantastic scenarios for this game - you won't run out of battles to fight.

(in reply to slybelle)

Post #: 4

RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/19/2009 6:26:23 PM

BeastieDog

Posts: 95
Joined: 12/22/2006
Status: offline

Hi slybelle,

This game is a classic. I play against the AI and find it challenging(as far as an AI can be). There's a scenario of the WWII Eastern front with a Soviet AI being tested. Air and naval aspects are weak, but land combat is very good. I'm currently trying to master War in the Pacific-AE (very involved-kiss goodbye to your home life). I also have Conquests of the Agean (best AI around). I will consider Battles for the Bulge which will follow COTA. Still, you wont go wrong with TOAW III. Those three games are all I play.

_____________________________

Dog

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Post #: 5

RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/19/2009 6:32:49 PM

slybelle

Posts: 193
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline

Beastie,

I have all those games as well so seems like our tastes might be similar. Think I will be pulling the trigger:)

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Post #: 6

RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/19/2009 6:52:50 PM

larryfulkerson

Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slybelle
What is the end of the game like? Meaning, do you get some kind of screen that shows total loses on each side, etc?

Yes, there's a chance to look over the losses for YOUR side. I'm not sure how to find out the losses for the PO. I guess you could stop the PO during the last turn and take a look just before fighting your last battles or something. But yeah, there's an end of game screen and when you dismiss that you can look over the battle field etc.

(in reply to slybelle)

Post #: 7

RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/19/2009 8:02:50 PM

Josh

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

how do you spell fantisy ?

Uhm, fantasy ?

But seriously, I have very much respect for your AAR's, well written and detailed.

I haven't played TOAW I in a looong time, I found it back then... tedious and mindboggling at some times. I did have some great times with Advanced Tactics though, it's fun and deep at the same time... but it's not TOAW. Your AAR's make we want to play this latest installment of TOAW once again though... I am a bit afraid though that I might get the same feeling as when I played the original TOAW years ago... Too big! You stare at the game map and you don't even have a clue as where to begin.
I've played Advanced Tactics for two years straight, so I'm looking for a ... new challenge. AT2 will be awhile, WitE and World in Flames won't be out for a while too.... so I bought another golden oldie "John Tillers Campaign series". Yeah it's nice, but it won't hold my attention long I'm afraid.
Let me know what you think of it Slybelle, I'm curious.
Thanks,

Josh

(in reply to larryfulkerson)

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RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/19/2009 8:09:57 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline

quote:

I guess you could stop the PO during the last turn and take a look just before fighting your last battles or something.

I save the last turn, and after the scenario ends I reload that last turn and choose the computer to play neither side. Then you can go directly to the opposition side and look at everything. You can also do this during the scenario, but that would be not fair to the PO

.

Slybelle, I would recommend getting TOAW, it's worth the price of admission just for the number of scenarios that come with it. Then there are the multitude of downloadable scenarios from other sources. Everything is covered. And as a bonus (or a curse), TOAW comes with a complete Editor. If you don't like something you can change it. You can put together entire scenarios on your own (if you are crazy enough!). And if that isn't complex enough for you, there is a Bio-Editor download with which you can change every aspect of units and terrain (and Parmenio has designed another Editor to make this process more friendly and pleasing). It's awesome.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)

Post #: 9

RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/19/2009 8:45:55 PM

slybelle

Posts: 193
Joined: 10/16/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

how do you spell fantisy ?

Too big! You stare at the game map and you don't even have a clue as where to begin.

I have to admit, this was the only item I was concerned with myself. I don't mind big, but if it is hard to figure out and just not fun, then certainly a problem. I'm not sure if I will have time to purchase tonight so likely will consider picking up in the morning....hopefully more good reviews come in to make the decision easier:)

(in reply to Josh)

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RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/19/2009 11:38:33 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
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quote:

You stare at the game map and you don't even have a clue as where to begin.

But there are all different map sizes, you just need to check them out and see which ones are reasonable for you to manage. Some are small enough to require no scrolling

(in reply to slybelle)

Post #: 11

RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/20/2009 1:21:13 PM

slybelle

Posts: 193
Joined: 10/16/2005
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Just curious, is there a list of web sites that host all these scenarios? I would love to look at what is available before making the plunge, although I'm fairly certain I will anyways.

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Post #: 12

RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/20/2009 2:04:51 PM

BeastieDog

Posts: 95
Joined: 12/22/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slybelle

Just curious, is there a list of web sites that host all these scenarios? I would love to look at what is available before making the plunge, although I'm fairly certain I will anyways.

I think over 100 come with the game. I have so many I'm not sure what I've downloaded over the years and what comes with the game. Some are PBEM only. There's a sticky for the Wargamers site with some scen not included with the purchase:

http://www.wargamer.com/gamesdepot/search_game.asp?gid=592

I've had this game for a couple of years and only scratched the surface with all the scen available and more are in progress. These's also a patch due out some time next year.

_____________________________

Dog

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Post #: 13

RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/20/2009 2:52:57 PM

slybelle

Posts: 193
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeastieDog

quote:

ORIGINAL: slybelle

Just curious, is there a list of web sites that host all these scenarios? I would love to look at what is available before making the plunge, although I'm fairly certain I will anyways.

These's also a patch due out some time next year.

Thanks for the information. Just curious, any news on what the patch would contain? Any major new features planned or just bug fixes for the most part?

(in reply to BeastieDog)

Post #: 14

RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/20/2009 3:36:01 PM

Jeff Norton

Posts: 2054
Joined: 8/8/2000
From: MD, USA (You're not cleared for specifics...)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slybelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeastieDog

quote:

ORIGINAL: slybelle

Just curious, is there a list of web sites that host all these scenarios? I would love to look at what is available before making the plunge, although I'm fairly certain I will anyways.

These's also a patch due out some time next year.

Thanks for the information. Just curious, any news on what the patch would contain? Any major new features planned or just bug fixes for the most part?

1 - cleaned up supply usage
2 - far more smarter AI/Elmer PO
3 - Better supply routine (determination, movement, etc)
4 - improved interface (helpful tips, faster performance for LARGE games, improved coding, ect)
5 - Graphics update

Read thru Ralph's website (http://operationalwarfare.com/) for more info - he gives a pretty good overview.

With the newer Scenario and equipment viewers being developed, along with Ralph's work, its a vast improvement over the old verison.

-Merry Christmans

_____________________________

-Jeff
Veritas Vos Liberabit
"Hate America - love their movies" -Foos Babaganoosh - Anchor - Jihad Tonite

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RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/20/2009 7:36:56 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
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From: east coast, usa
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quote:

... is there a list of web sites that host all these scenarios?

Rugged Defense has a bunch:

http://www.the-strategist.net/RD/scenarii/browse_scenario.php

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Post #: 16

RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/21/2009 1:21:12 AM

slybelle

Posts: 193
Joined: 10/16/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

... is there a list of web sites that host all these scenarios?

Rugged Defense has a bunch:

http://www.the-strategist.net/RD/scenarii/browse_scenario.php

Thanks and just for clarification, can you also convert the COW version scenarios to be playable? If you do that, is there any downside or shortcomings?

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Post #: 17

RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/21/2009 2:54:33 AM

larryfulkerson

Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
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@slybelle: So um.......from what I understand all you need to do to convert them is load the old scenario into the new version's editor and save it ( preferably to a new name ) and it should be playable. The problem is that the designer designed it for the old version so the 'new' scenario may not have the losses settings at the correct level and the combats may be too bloody or not bloody enough to reflect the 'real world' levels. Things like that. I've converted scenarios and have noticed no problemos so far but others have converted old scenarios and reported that there were small things that didn't work correctly ( like the bloodiness level ).

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Post #: 18

RE: Need some thoughts - considering buying? - 12/21/2009 3:36:03 AM

Silvanski

Posts: 2506
Joined: 1/23/2005
From: Belgium, residing in TX-USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkersonothers have converted old scenarios and reported that there were small things that didn't work correctly ( like the bloodiness level ).

There occasionally may be some problems with event settings
If you're interested in older scenarios, just ask around...

_____________________________

The TOAW Redux Dude

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