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RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 5:54:46 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I would have to say after reading about the battle that, it is the flak thing that bothers me the most. In an air battle, the worst luck can happen to either side but to see Japanese aircraft face that kind of 1943 flak and only lose 20 or so aircraft just says it all. I find that Japanese ships actually do better shooting down my aircfraft than my Allied ship do to theirs. The flak is certainly screwed. I am beginning to grow a little concerned about Allied surface ships as well. Historically, by late 43 the long lance was no longer much of a threat in surface combat, and Allied technology and training had improved so much. I think some of it is balance to compensate for the tremendous numbers the Allies get...I suppose I am OK with that, but that flak thing.....

This is to take nothing away from your excellent planning and tactics which contributed to the victory as much as luck did. Andy is just not in the same catagory as you. He is a bit sloppy in planning and excution. No knock on him as he is his toughest critic right now. Poor guy should be playing someone like me.....

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2341
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 7:39:08 AM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		I agree with you here Crsutton; but I must also admit that I don't know how many ac were historically lost by % when Jap and Allied ac attacked each others fleets in 41-45.
This is the devs job to figure out, guess they felt that Nick the flak mans calculations were a bit to extreme

The entire Waingapoe campaign has been an uphill struggle for the Allies; I very early predicted the doom of such an early effort - much like attacking Cassino
in the Autmn rains of 43. Playing a good defensive battle in favorable positions with the right force composition is much easier than being the poor guy that has to do all attacking.

When you notice that things are going uphill don't reinforce the trend!
Andy said his surface combat TFs performed miserably and the PT boats couldn't hit squadly dit.
- But that's only partly true:

Allied surface combat TFs often faced superior opponents!
When fighting fast destroyers with large lumbering battleships in narrow straits - you loose.
When fighting heavy Jap cruiser tfs with light cruisers - you loose.
When fighting fast destroyers with PT boats you expend your torpedoes (and without being able to reload) - you loose.
(PT boats have actually sunk 1 CL, 1-2 DDs and put 2 battleships out of the action - so not sure they performed so poorly!)

By adding 1-2 CA's (Baltimore type) into Allied TFs Jap casualties would have been higher.
Having to call for reinforcements from Pearl or Karachi (or Perth / Port Hedland at best) doesn't allow much flexibility.

Also remember that by surviving battles experience increase; Jap ships have done so for almost 2 years while most Allied ships are brand new or only
fight once before going to Davy Jones...

I also have my large naval base at Soerabaja 15 hexes from Waingapoe and can easily pick out the right tools needed for the job.
If Andy wanted to surprise me why not risk a daring strike on Soerabaja instead of hitting the bee hive of Waingapoe when the going got tough?

The aspect of the game I'm still trying to understand more of is carrier battles;
- KB fleets only launched AM strikes on 2 occasions!
Did weather shut down flight ops, can't understand this as I've seen strikes launched when KB was shrouded in t-storms?

- Naval (Allied but also Japanese) bombers sometimes don't hit anything!
I tended to blame this on attacking in poor weather but that's not completely true either as Jap CAG hit far better even when attacking in poor weather.

Sometimes I know that a naval strike isn't going to hit anything; 60 crack Betties launch their torps in quick succession without scoring more than a single hit, even
against lumbering transports. I now tend to think that search and detection levels play a more important role than we think! By sharply increasing search efforts and keeping a steady fix on the enemy before attacking I hypothise that more hits will be achieved. - Instead of simply learning that "a huge enemy force is approaching" you will have detailed information about TF composition, speed and direction. This should greatly aid the strike coordinators set up the attack.

Before the 8 hex strike we had spotted and tracked the Allied fleets; Andy didn't know were KB was at all before we hit him.
The next turn the KB charged and with the enemy fleet in chaos and maxed out detection levels the attacks were deadly and accurate.

If you add that luck is usually on the winning side the equation should be complete.
What do you think, am I on to something here?

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 2342
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 1:36:24 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Another area seems to be the use and recon your subs have allowed you to know more about what Andy has been doing. I would have at least those 18 plane Kingfisher units operating at his bases. By now, they should be deadly to any subs within 2 hexes of a base and then use patrol planes to keep the shipping lanes clear.

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2343
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 2:21:31 PM   
veji1

 

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline 		So what should the final tally be ? 3/4 Cvs, 4 BBs, 5/6 CVEs and a host of other ships ? This is a great victory, but certainly not a definitive one. I look forward to what he will come up with. I Suppose Burma should become the main focus again, with him just pouring troops in there...

_____________________________

Adieu Ô Dieu odieux... signé Adam

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 2344
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 2:54:08 PM   
mikhail

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 8/27/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with veji1. Burma will be probably primary target for next 6 month. You should move some of yours backups to this area.

(in reply to veji1)
Post #: 2345
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 2:54:47 PM   
beppi

 

Posts: 382
Joined: 3/11/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Some overview of the ship losses from the begin of the invasion until your last turn:

In general, light/medium depend on ship size, heavy involves mostly a torp hits or large caliber hits including heavy burning or heavy damage, probably sunk i will display for all large ships and sunk means a sunk message.

Counting was done with the combat reports, might have missed a line or one of the smaller ships so do not blame me :)

BB
light/medium 2 (Missisippi/Resolution)
heavy 2 (Warsprite, Colorado)
probSunk 3 (Idaho, Royal Sovereign, Vailant)
Sunk 2 (Pennsylvania, New Mexico)

BB Idaho, Shell hits 17, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Idaho, Shell hits 4
BB Idaho, Shell hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
BB Idaho, Shell hits 9
BB Idaho, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
Could be possible that the ship sank, 3 torp hits and some heavy shelling. Could have survived but with extensive yard time.

BB Royal Sovereign, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1
BB Royal Sovereign, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Royal Sovereign, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
4 Torpedo hits, hard to deal with, chances are good that the ship sank but might survive with extensive yard time.

BB Valiant, Shell hits 45, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Valiant, Shell hits 54, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Valiant, Shell hits 7
Got shelled 2 times quite hard and a torpedo hit. Chances are good that it survived which depends on the sys damage. Will need a lot of yard time.

CV
light/medium 4 (Formidable, Illustrious, Victorious, Yorkown)
heavy 0
probSunk 2 (Bunker Hill, Lexington)
Sunk 2 (Hornet, Enterprise)

CV Bunker Hill, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
CV Bunker Hill, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
Two bombs, 5 torps, should be gone

CV Lexington, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
1 Torp, 8 Bombs (500kg), hard to predict might survive but i would bet on sunk.

CVL
light/medium 1 (Independence)
heavy 0
probSunk 1 (Princeton)
Sunk 0

CVL Princeton, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Princeton, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
5 Torpedo hits on a CVL should be gone, but no sinking message so no count as sunk.

CVE
light/medium 4 (Anzio, Chenango, Corregidor, Sangamon)
heavy 0
probSunk 2 (Prince William, Santee)
Sunk 2 (Brenton, Suwannee)

CVE Prince William, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
Three bomb hits, heavy fires heavy damage, could sink could survice. Hard to predict for a CVE.

CVE Santee, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
Two torp hits can be enought for a CVE, but might survive.

Rest of the losses:

CA
light/medium 5
heavy 0
probSunk 1
Sunk 3

CL
light/medium 8
heavy 2
probSunk 2
Sunk 4

DD/DE
light/medium 37
heavy 6
probSunk 8
Sunk 12

AK
light/medium 2
heavy 0
probSunk 0
Sunk 5

APA/LSI
light/medium 0
heavy 0
probSunk 2
Sunk 4

LCM/LCI/LST
light/medium 5
heavy 4
probSunk 9
Sunk 46

MISC
light/medium 0
heavy 0
probSunk 2
Sunk 5

TK
light/medium 0
heavy 0
probSunk 1
Sunk 0

xAK
light/medium 2
heavy 5
probSunk 14
Sunk 19

xAP
light/medium 3
heavy 1
probSunk 5
Sunk 8







< Message edited by beppi -- 3/7/2011 2:58:26 PM >

(in reply to veji1)
Post #: 2346
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 3:13:41 PM   
beppi

 

Posts: 382
Joined: 3/11/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Quite an impressive outcome and everything during a weekend (argl had no time for any mid combat comments).

More or less the losses give you 3-4 more quite save months as i doubt that andy will push any further in the SRA right now. He needs time to repair his stuff and so on. He gets 1 more CV until end of the war and 2 -3 in the first 3 months including around 4 or 5 CVL. In addition the CVE will start to pour in next year so it wont get to easy

At Waingapoe i see no problem kicking him out. Continue your daily bombardment runs even if he moves his fighters out. You kill/disable some squads with every run and disabled squads take supply to repair. In addition your runs kill off supply. Do the same with your air assets just to drain the base to empty.

If you start your ground combat synchronize it with bombardment runs as they drastically increase the disruption which helps during you assaults. Prep your stuff for the assault and squash the base sometimes in the next 2 or 3 months. But i do not think that you need to hurry.

Do not waste KB with some futily attempts to raid some bases somewhere. AA will kill your pilots for small gain. A BB which needs 300 days yard time is better than a sunken one.

Shift some of your further reinforcements to Burma and fortify it more. In addition get a defensive parameter up there against invasions. Might be possible that Andy tries it there sometimes in the future by sea. Just develop some of the bases there just in the case.

Establish some defensive perimeter around Rabaul. Rabaul and Kavieng in enemy hands can trash Truk and cut of the entire CentPac and you do not need a lot of CVs to invade there if andy builds some overlapping land bases. I doubt that Andy will do that but in my current game where i lack some carriers i develop a street of large bases from Nouma up to Rabaul with multiple overlapping bases and it is quite possible to assault and invade without any carriers.

In CentPac you still control quite a huge area and you should think about where to retreat to if the enemy push comes. Try to take some bases back (Wake, Midway ?) if andy assaulted some of them. But the question is if its worth cause you burn huge amounts of fuel if you move KB there.

Overall a quite successful defense done, i am impressed even if Andy sometimes tend to act to much like the AI.



< Message edited by beppi -- 3/7/2011 3:36:20 PM >

(in reply to beppi)
Post #: 2347
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 3:19:08 PM   
Yakface


Posts: 846
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Truly a magnificent victory

and you are right PZB. It's a case of the better the plan and the more you prepare for the battle...... the luckier you get.

(in reply to beppi)
Post #: 2348
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 4:21:54 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		An excellent tally beppi, exactly what I didn't have time to do
Appreciate the effort

What I now need to look at is;
1. How many operational carriers does Andy have left (what does the KB have to face in the next 3-4 months?)
2. How long will it take Andy to a) replace his losses and b) to come back stronger than when going at Waingapoe?

Japan will be receiving 1 CV in 2 weeks followed by another 2 CVs over the next 2-3 months.
This should prolong the grace period before the Allies can outnumber us decisively.

My guesstimate is that KB can play hardball with Allied CV force until mid 44 now.

- Yes, Burma area and New Guinea / Solomons must be guarded. May shift some Cent Pac forces to the latter while
feeding reinforcements to the former. As soon as Waingapoe is defeated we should have a sizeable strategic reserve available again.

This turn we continue to hit Waingapoe; still something to destroy there!
Our raiders continue to hit the Lukenback convoy
- Only the low ammo allowance makes it hard to destroy it completely; 2-3 ships and a raider / CL is out of ammo.
Silly things continue to poor ordnance into burning hulks long after they could be left alone.

Enemy 4Es continue their anti-shipping missions and suffer for it without having results to show for.

I purged dozens of naval squadrons this turn and transferred pilots to training command; these will be given to KB to rebuild the elite air units.
Most air units already provided with replacement ac.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 24, 43

Surface Combat

Night Time Surface Combat, near San Francisco at 205,96, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Tenryu

Allied Ships
xAK Dakotan
xAK Utahan
xAK Atlanta City
xAK Mobile City
xAK Steel Age
xAK Steel Exporter
xAK Steel Navigator
xAK Steel Ranger
xAK Steel Scientist
xAK Steel Seafarer
xAK Steel Trader
xAK Steel Voyager
xAK Steel Worker
xAK Dorothy Luckenbach
xAK Horace Luckenbach
xAK Jacob Luckenbach
xAK Lillian Luckenbach
xAK William Luckenbach
xAK Corrales
xAK Ewa
xAK Liloa
xAK Mahimahi
xAK Makena
xAK Maliko
xAK Mormachawk
xAK Mormaclark
xAK Mormacwren
xAK San Angelo
xAK Admiral Wiley
xAK Admiral Gove
xAK Admiral Williams
xAK Hollywood
xAK West Portal
xAK West Shipper, heavy damage
xAK City of Elwood
xAK Alcoa Pegasus
xAK Cape Romain
xAK Cape Flattery
xAK Alcoa Pioneer
xAK Cape Cumberland
xAK Cape John
xAK Defiance
xAK Golden Gate
xAK Hurricane
xAK Cynthia Olson, Shell hits 12, on fire
xAK Dellwood
xAK Exmoor
xAK Liberty
xAK Liberty Glo
xAK Lipscomb Lykes
xAK Nisqually
xAK Port Orford
xAK Comliebank
xAK Hosang
xAK Howra
xAK Kutsang
xAK Nils Moller
xAK Nurmahal
xAK Oakbank
xAK Silksworth, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

Reduced sighting due to 17% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 17% moonlight: 2,000 yards

Allied Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near San Francisco at 205,96, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
AMC Gokoku Maru, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
xAK Hollywood, Shell hits 7, on fire
xAK West Shipper, Shell hits 13, and is sunk
xAK Cynthia Olson, Shell hits 40, and is sunk

Reduced sighting due to 17% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 17% moonlight: 7,000 yards

Task forces break off...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near San Francisco at 205,95, Range 4,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Tenryu

Allied Ships
xAK Dakotan
xAK Utahan
xAK Atlanta City
xAK Mobile City
xAK Steel Age
xAK Steel Exporter
xAK Steel Navigator, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Steel Ranger
xAK Steel Scientist
xAK Steel Seafarer
xAK Steel Trader
xAK Steel Voyager
xAK Steel Worker
xAK Dorothy Luckenbach
xAK Horace Luckenbach
xAK Jacob Luckenbach
xAK Lillian Luckenbach
xAK William Luckenbach
xAK Corrales
xAK Ewa
xAK Liloa
xAK Mahimahi
xAK Makena
xAK Maliko
xAK Mormachawk
xAK Mormaclark
xAK Mormacwren
xAK San Angelo
xAK Admiral Wiley
xAK Admiral Gove
xAK Admiral Williams
xAK West Portal
xAK City of Elwood
xAK Alcoa Pegasus
xAK Cape Romain
xAK Cape Flattery
xAK Alcoa Pioneer
xAK Cape Cumberland
xAK Cape John
xAK Defiance
xAK Golden Gate
xAK Hurricane
xAK Dellwood
xAK Exmoor
xAK Liberty
xAK Liberty Glo
xAK Lipscomb Lykes
xAK Nisqually
xAK Port Orford
xAK Comliebank
xAK Hosang
xAK Howra
xAK Kutsang
xAK Nils Moller
xAK Nurmahal
xAK Oakbank
xAK Silverteak
xAK Silverwillow
xAK Singu
xAK Nova Scotia, Shell hits 17, heavy fires, heavy damage

Reduced sighting due to 17% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 17% moonlight: 4,000 yards

Allied Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bombardments

Night Naval bombardment of Waingapoe at 63,113 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
26 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
CA Myoko
CL Yubari
CL Isuzu
DD Takakaze
DD Hatakaze
DD Nowaki

F1M2 Pete acting as spotter for CA Myoko
CA Myoko firing at 33rd Infantry Division
CL Yubari firing at 7th Infantry Division
CL Isuzu firing at 15th Marine Defense Battalion
15th Marine Defense Battalion firing at CL Isuzu
DD Takakaze firing at 15th Marine Defense Battalion
15th Marine Defense Battalion firing at DD Takakaze
DD Hatakaze firing at 33rd Infantry Division
DD Nowaki firing at 11th (East African) Division
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Waingapoe at 63,113

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato
BB Hiei
CA Ashigara
CA Atago
DD Tachekaze
DD Uzuki
DD Oboro
DD Shikinami
DD Shiranui
DD Suzunami
DD Kazegumo
DD Akizuki

Allied ground losses:
13 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

E13A1 Jake acting as spotter for BB Nagato
BB Nagato firing at 7th Infantry Division
F1M2 Pete acting as spotter for BB Hiei
BB Hiei firing at 11th (East African) Division
CA Ashigara firing at 11th (East African) Division
CA Atago firing at 11th (East African) Division
DD Tachekaze firing at 11th (East African) Division
DD Uzuki firing at 11th (East African) Division
DD Oboro firing at 33rd Infantry Division
DD Shikinami firing at 11th (East African) Division
DD Shiranui firing at 33rd Infantry Division
DD Suzunami firing at 11th (East African) Division
DD Kazegumo firing at 33rd Infantry Division
DD Akizuki firing at 11th (East African) Division
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Morning Air attack on Waingapoe , at 63,113
Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 44 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 15
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 65
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 35

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 1

No Japanese losses
No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 30000 feet

CAP engaged:
13rd PS (P) with P-39D Airacobra (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Waingapoe , at 63,113
Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 50 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 15
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 11
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 23
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 35
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 21

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 12 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed on ground
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 1 destroyed on ground
P-40N1 Warhawk: 1 destroyed on ground
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed on ground
P-40K Warhawk: 1 destroyed on ground

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 23

Aircraft Attacking:
21 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Komodo at 63,111
Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 4

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 3
B-24D1 Liberator x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
SC Ch 34
SC Ch 16

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet *
Naval Attack: 5 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet *
Naval Attack: 5 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Waingapoe , at 63,113
Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 38 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 23
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 69
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 22

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 destroyed, 14 damaged
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 1 destroyed on ground
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed on ground
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed on ground
P-40K Warhawk: 2 destroyed on ground
TBF-1 Avenger: 2 destroyed on ground
A-36 Mustang: 1 destroyed on ground
P-40N1 Warhawk: 1 destroyed on ground
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 69

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
19 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
24 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Waingapoe , at 63,113
Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 38 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 15
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 22

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied ground losses:
4 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 10

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Waingapoe at 63,113
Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 42 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 3
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 6

Allied aircraft
Mitchell II x 3
B-25D1 Mitchell x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
PB Sozan Maru
PB Yodozo Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Mitchell II bombing from 11000 feet *
Naval Attack: 3 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
2 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 100 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 plane(s) with no ordnance
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Memboro at 63,112
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 4
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 1
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 14
Ki-61-Ic Tony x 14

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 7
B-24J Liberator x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAK Ryujo Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Naval Attack: 10 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Komodo at 63,111
Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 47 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 3
B-24D1 Liberator x 4

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
SC Ch 26

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet *
Naval Attack: 4 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
4 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet *
Naval Attack: 5 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Memboro at 63,112
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 1
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 1
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 6
Ki-61-Ic Tony x 8

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAKL Hinode Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 12000 feet *
Naval Attack: 5 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Memboro at 63,112
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 1
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 1
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 4
Ki-61-Ic Tony x 7

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAKL Hukko Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 12000 feet *
Naval Attack: 4 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Losses








Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Yakface)
Post #: 2349
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 4:22:37 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Hey, I'm going Stateside in 3 weeks - anyone living near Stamford (NY) or Houston?
Let me know and there can be beers!

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2350
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 4:30:34 PM   
yamo1

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 3/6/2011
Status: offline 		Hmmm...speaking in the abstract I would say you should sieze the initiative and strike HARD as soon as possible. As soon as KB is re loaded/repaired. Take what he can not now defend.

(in reply to Yakface)
Post #: 2351
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 4:39:15 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Just a side question - where are you getting most of your fuel to run these operations?? Java, Balikpapan, or ship it in from Palembang??

(in reply to yamo1)
Post #: 2352
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 4:40:49 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Hey, I'm going Stateside in 3 weeks - anyone living near Stamford (NY) or Houston?
Let me know and there can be beers!


You should PM Nikademus. He might be in Houston by then.

_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2353
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 5:13:04 PM   
Garth Vader

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 1/11/2011
Status: offline 		Congrats! I have been following this AAR for a long time now and you do a very good job writing it. Thank you for the extra time you spend doing this in addition to all the time you spend actually playing the game.

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 2354
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 5:23:15 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		CONGRATUALTIONS!
You just depleted pool of P-47

This large ZERO unit, you pasted earlier seems perfect for sweeps. At least planes will not have coordination troubles. But probably it will be better, to wait until armored ZERO model. Also, I think pilots with both 65+ Air, and 65+ Defense are good enough for combat. I am guessing, the better they are, the longer they need to skill increase, so that would probably free slot a month earlier.

Now:
quote:

Ki-48-IIa Lily sighting report: 7 Allied ships at 126,40 near Alexandrovsk, speed 19, Moving Southeast

What is this? Some Russian fleet?


If you bag around 6 Divisions at Waingapoe, it would be worth to shot at New Caledonia, and Fiji (HA! I said this again ). If you could destroy there 3-4 another Divisions, this will break Allied offensive power for 12 months. You could start preparing forces.

I am wondering, if Japan have now enough advantage, to split KB into 2 fleets.
Allies seems to not lost THAT MUCH CVs, but it will take them probably 3 months, to rebuild HELLCAT pool.

(in reply to Garth Vader)
Post #: 2355
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 6:37:49 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Hi Yamo and welcome to the thread, first post on forum!?
Well, no matter how much the idea appeals to me Japan is in no condition to go onto the offensive.
All our troop reserves are committed to reducing Waingapoe, half our navy is in the yards and the KB is replenishing its airgroups.
A6M5 pools have been depleted; had to reduce a non carrier unit to A6M2s to fill up the rest.
Can't really afford to squander the KB unless in an emergency.

Fuel is plentifull in the SRA; Soerabaja had some 250k units but has been complemented from Palembang and Singapore.
In all there is still 500k unit in reserves in the area; bringing half of this to Soerabaja.

Ok thx for the tip Mynok!

Good to hear that you enjoy it Garth; this will most likely be my last WitP AAR - takes a lot of time and I will move on to War in the East after my last
games come to an end!

Hehe, indeed but Andy is receiving new air units with P-47s and tons of Corsairs now so I will try to keep the jubilation to moderate levels Inq
Hey, that's my training schools - fingers off Not sure it's fair to throw such large units into combat, they were resized on carriers for training purposes solely.
In the last year of the war it will probably be thrown into the fray as well...

Hm, no idea - forgot to check. Could be another "Andy convoy"!

KB holds ca 800 ac including slow CVEs. Can certainly split it, but to what purpose?
The Yorktown was reported sunk today, not that many US carriers still around. Plenty of UK, CVL and CVEs left but
Andy has to rebuild his carrier fleets around the large US fleet carriers and that may take a while.
- An ad-hoc fleet with 1-2 US and 2-3 UK CVs, 2-3 CVLs and CVEs will not stand up to the KB.

As I said, need to go over the US inventory and count the remaining fleet carriers.

Not much to report, will cut down on the reports and only include "interesting" news for a while.
We now got 7 divisions in Waingapoe; 3150 AV plus 10 arty units. 3 more divisions enroute.
- Will probably start the assaults in 7-10 days when 2 of the last divs are in place.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 25, 43

Bombardments

Night Naval bombardment of Waingapoe at 63,113 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

48 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato
BB Kirishima
BB Haruna
BB Kongo, Shell hits 1
CA Chokai
CL Kinu
DD Tadeyame
DD Suruyame
DD Hamakaze
DD Onami
DD Yugumo

Allied ground losses:
147 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 20 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

F1M2 Pete acting as spotter for BB Yamato
BB Yamato firing at 33rd Infantry Division
E13A1 Jake acting as spotter for BB Kirishima
15th Marine Defense Battalion firing at BB Kirishima
BB Kirishima firing at 15th Marine Defense Battalion
E8N2 Dave acting as spotter for BB Haruna
BB Haruna firing at 7th Australian Division
15th Marine Defense Battalion firing at BB Kongo
BB Kongo firing at 15th Marine Defense Battalion
E8N2 Dave acting as spotter for CA Chokai
CA Chokai firing at 11th (East African) Division
CL Kinu firing at 15th Marine Defense Battalion
15th Marine Defense Battalion firing at CL Kinu
DD Tadeyame firing at 11th (East African) Division
DD Suruyame firing at 11th (East African) Division
DD Hamakaze firing at 15th Marine Defense Battalion
15th Marine Defense Battalion firing at DD Hamakaze
DD Onami firing at 11th (East African) Division
DD Yugumo firing at 11th (East African) Division
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Morning Air attack on Waingapoe , at 63,113
Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 38 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 40
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 17 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 18

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Waingapoe at 63,113
Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 45 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 2
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 2

Allied aircraft
Mitchell II x 3
B-25D1 Mitchell x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Mitchell II: 1 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
E Aotaka
PB Takunan Maru #2, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Mitchell II bombing from 11000 feet *
Naval Attack: 3 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
2 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 100 feet *
Naval Attack: 3 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Waingapoe , at 63,113
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 38 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 50
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 22

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 8 damaged
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 28

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Waingapoe , at 63,113
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 38 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 10 damaged

Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Runway hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Waingapoe , at 63,113
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 23
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 19

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 destroyed, 12 damaged

Allied aircraft losses

Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 10

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at Nookanbah (66,130)
Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 3200 troops, 63 guns, 114 vehicles, Assault Value = 1103
Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Allied adjusted assault: 268
Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 268 to 1 (fort level 0)
Allied forces CAPTURE Nookanbah !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+)

Assaulting units:
2/8th Armoured Regiment
3rd Army Tank Brigade
2/7th Armoured Regiment
2/5th Armoured Regiment
754th Tank Battalion
2nd USMC Tank Battalion
2/6th Armoured Regiment
1st Motor Brigade
3rd Motor Brigade
1st Army Tank Regiment
7th Armoured Brigade
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Casualties

The Nagara has been burning for a week; disbanded her into a size 0 port but impossible to get fires out.
Probably have to scuttle her...

Lexington reported sunk




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 2356
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 7:58:40 PM   
yamo1

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 3/6/2011
Status: offline 		Had to create another me...could not remember my login(if I had one...mostly I go to game forums for tech support) and my old email addy is dead. I usually don't follow AARs but this one was recommended over at the DF forum. Been lurking in this AAR for a few weeks. My head agrees w/you given your depleted status...but my gut says attack. But I could never have orchestrated such a victory...in no small part psychological. You read Andy like the Sunday funnies.

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2357
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 8:17:54 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		I've been trying to look over Allied carrier strength;
Please correct me if you see something wrong or missing.

Sunk

CV

Hornet
Yorktown
Wasp
Indomitable
---at Waingapoe-----
Lexington
Enterprise
Hornet II (Essex)
Bunker Hill (Essex)

CVL

Princeton sunk

CVE

6 CVE sunk (estimate, 1 by sub, the rest in Waingapoe battles..they're brittle so assumed sunk)

Damaged:
Formidable
Victorious
Illustrious
Yorktown II (Essex)

3 CVE

Estimate; requires 1 month to arrive in yards, 2 months in yards and 15 days to rejoin fleet.
Back in action 3-4 months.

Operational

3 CV, 7 CVL, 5 CVE
ca 650 ac in total or thereabout.

Saratoga
Essex (Essex)
Intrepid (Essex)
Hermes (CVL)
CVL Independence
CVL Belleau Wood
CVL Cowpens
CVL Montery
CVL Langley
CVL Cabot
3-5 x CVE

New to arrive soon

Wasp (11/43 Essex)
Hornet (11/43 Essex)
Franklin (02/44 Essex)
2x CVL (11/43 Independence)
1 CVL (01/44 Independence)

Total ca 360 ac

CVE ??

Can anyone help me here; CVE arrival list - UK and US between 10/43 - 6 / 44.
Would be nice to know what to expect.

------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion:

By February 1944 Allies will have regained or bypassed their carrier strength to that before Waingapoe.
By this time 2 more fleet carriers have joined our fleet, 1 Katsuragi and 1 Taiho.

I would not expect major Allied carrier sorties until March 44; if Andy wants to build a sound numerical advantage he will hold back a further few months.
Waingapoe has therefore bought us ~4 months.

Andy has said he has a holy goal about destroying KB; let's try to avoid this
I'm therefore willing to engage enemy carriers throughout 1943 and will then become increasingly reluctant to engage a superior force unless circumstances are
favorable (as at Waingapoe).

The fleet in being concept is crucial and at one point Allied numbers will make it pointless to seek a head to head confrontation.


_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2358
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 8:21:25 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		DF Forum?

Always nice to see lurkers come out of the shadows!
Yes, I do have a few cunning attack plans - will get back when it's time.

After playing UV, WitP and AE for 8 years I'm certain that anyone would be able to pull an ace out of their sleeve now and then


_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to yamo1)
Post #: 2359
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 9:52:44 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Some movement in Burma; could be an attack or a diverions. Sending some tanks up to block the road.
450 bobmers reported in the base south of Dacca. Guess there's a storm on the horizon!

Question is how to play defense in Burma now; we got ca 7+ divisions of troops and support.
There's a Guards division at Bangkok prepped for Victoria Point with regiments out at the coast.
Singapore holds numerous smaller garrison units for the peninsula.

At Sumatra and Port Blair all bases have garrisons except the size 0 dot bases.
Been painfull but have continued to divert base forces and troops to these theatres as this is the last defensive region
to be readied for Allied assault. A regiment from Japan is moving to Medan; planning to move quite a few of the troops arriving the next month
in the South East Asian theatre. Others will trickle down to New Guinea and Rabaul to make good the units I "scrounged" there for Waingapoe.

Plan is then to sit on 10 divisions at Waingapoe when cleaned up; of these 2-3 can be sent into the line while the rest can make up
a powerfull strategic reserve.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 26, 43

Air Combat

4Es coninue to attack shipping with little results but loosing a handful of ac each turn.
I'm continuing to flesh out KBs CAGs; 95% of ac in place and 85% of pilots - the rest are enroute or being
transferred from other units.

Morning Air attack on 77th Coast AA Regiment, at 55,47
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 21

Allied aircraft
P-39N1 Airacobra x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-39N1 Airacobra: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 9000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 77th Coast AA Regiment, at 55,47
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 27 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 21

Allied aircraft
P-39N1 Airacobra x 7
P-40N1 Warhawk x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-39N1 Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-40N1 Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 9000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 77th Coast AA Regiment, at 55,47
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 11

Allied aircraft
P-39N1 Airacobra x 11
P-40N1 Warhawk x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-Ic Sally: 6 destroyed, 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Burma





Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2360
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 10:06:04 PM   
PresterJohn001


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/11/2009
Status: offline 		I suspect that the allied ground forces will be a tougher battle than their naval ones. Supply will most likely be their weakness. They are tough as nails.

My feeling is Andys mistake was concentrating too much on having a constant naval presence at Waingapoe. Once troops landed, pull back, keep it supplied as best you can but concentrate on a second landing asap.

Excellent victory and kudos to Andy too for fighting and fighting... many opponents would have cashed their chips. I almost would like to see him get his revenge. Almost.

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2361
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 10:33:51 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

I agree with you here Crsutton; but I must also admit that I don't know how many ac were historically lost by % when Jap and Allied ac attacked each others fleets in 41-45.

+

I concur with your assesments. I just do not send old American BBs into restricted waters. Japanese CAs and DDs just eat them up. Allied modern CLs and Fletcher DDs seem to get the best bang for the buck. I also expect Alled DDs to have better sucess with torpedoes after 1944-so perhaps Andy should have waited a few months befor trying something so ambitious.

By 1944, Allied AA was accounting for the bulk of Japanese aircraft shot down. Something like %60 I think. Even with better fighters, radar and vectoring, allied AA was the real killer orather than CAP. By late 43, Allied flak gunners were really getting their act down.

Someone here a few months back posted a great AA report written by the Allied commander after the battle of (Santa Cruz?) It was a facinating read as he was bemoaning the poor results of Allied AA at that stage of the war. The Allies had radar fire control but he said that lack of experience and training made it all but useless with most guns not shooting until visual recognition was made. The other point he made which really makes sense to me is that the ship with the greatest chance to shoot down attacking aircraft is the ship being attacked. This makes sense as every other ship in the TF is firing defelction while the ship under attack is shooting directly along the attack paths of the oncoming bombers.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 3/7/2011 10:34:26 PM >

_____________________________

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Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2362
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 11:01:11 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		No doubt, no fancy way to fin land battles in AE...only a prolonged slug combined with 1000 enemy bomber strikes.
If Andy had captured another 2 bases and landed sufficient air support, AA guns and engineers he would have gained a solid foothold in the SRA.
With only 1 base I guess he had to protect his airfields on Waingapoe to support his hard pressed CAGs; and so it continued.

That's the bugger, no matter how hard you fight as Japan you always end up like Emperor Nero

Yep, Old battleships are great for bombardments and invasion support...but not as frontline assets against the prime of IJN.
No doubt AA is difficult to program; need to tweak parameters for both sides as the war progressed and radar and prox fuses gets into play.
Not sure any further major tweaks will be done in AE so now both sides have to make do with what they got and adapt.


_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 2363
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/7/2011 11:47:19 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Way back you had some questions about CV battles. Two thoughts. First, I concur that detection level seems to matter for strike effectiveness rather than just serving to locate the enemy. Anecdotal evidence only, but my anecdotes are similar to yours.

Second, my theory on PM only strikes is that it seems to happen at longer ranges. Perhaps it takes the search a/c long enough to get to the enemy TF and report that the strike is pushed to the PM phase. This of course wouldn't explain your issue on day two when you closed to knife fighting range.

_____________________________


(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2364
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/8/2011 4:39:02 AM   
Xxzard

 

Posts: 440
Joined: 9/28/2008
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		Historically speaking, (if that's worth anything) it seems odd to me that no PM strike was launched considering how many times in the war carrier aircraft were launched so late in the day that they needed to be recovered near dusk or even at night.

_____________________________


(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 2365
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/8/2011 9:50:15 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB
KB holds ca 800 ac including slow CVEs. Can certainly split it, but to what purpose?
The Yorktown was reported sunk today, not that many US carriers still around.


Well, you could keep one part near Waingapoe, in case Allies shows up again, and send other half for hunting. There is possibility, that damaged ships will be sent to India/USA by map edge. But your edge seems to be only temporal, in 1-2 months all CVs will be repaired.

It is pretty clear, that the sole fact of bombardment, not firepower is important.
ISE got better results, than fleet, so you should split (but keep enough ships to counter raiders).
After all those sunk ships, what is the overall score, anyway?

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2366
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/9/2011 12:57:16 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

...Second, my theory on PM only strikes is that it seems to happen at longer ranges. Perhaps it takes the search a/c long enough to get to the enemy TF and report that the strike is pushed to the PM phase. ...

Interesting thought ... makes sense.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 2367
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/9/2011 7:48:06 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

...Second, my theory on PM only strikes is that it seems to happen at longer ranges. Perhaps it takes the search a/c long enough to get to the enemy TF and report that the strike is pushed to the PM phase. ...

Interesting thought ... makes sense.



yeah, would make sense but as I´ve seen such "long range" strikes both in the am and pm phase dozens of times I seriously doubt that above´s theory has something to do with the game.

_____________________________


(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 2368
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/9/2011 5:29:56 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Way back you had some questions about CV battles. Two thoughts. First, I concur that detection level seems to matter for strike effectiveness rather than just serving to locate the enemy. Anecdotal evidence only, but my anecdotes are similar to yours.

Second, my theory on PM only strikes is that it seems to happen at longer ranges. Perhaps it takes the search a/c long enough to get to the enemy TF and report that the strike is pushed to the PM phase. This of course wouldn't explain your issue on day two when you closed to knife fighting range.



I agree with this and put all of my TBDs on 20% search. I think layers of detection and multiple detection is more important that the lost strike assets.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 2369
RE: NEWSFLASH!! - 3/9/2011 6:51:20 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Way back you had some questions about CV battles. Two thoughts. First, I concur that detection level seems to matter for strike effectiveness rather than just serving to locate the enemy. Anecdotal evidence only, but my anecdotes are similar to yours.

Second, my theory on PM only strikes is that it seems to happen at longer ranges. Perhaps it takes the search a/c long enough to get to the enemy TF and report that the strike is pushed to the PM phase. This of course wouldn't explain your issue on day two when you closed to knife fighting range.



I agree with this and put all of my TBDs on 20% search. I think layers of detection and multiple detection is more important that the lost strike assets.



would also reflect US SBD use in WW2 more accurately too, added in is the possibility that a scout SBD will drop an egg into a flightdeck as a bonus. Happened twice iirc at santa cruz before the japs even launched. Finding intel on scouts hitting anything is not the easiest thing in the game though

And one more Grats to PzB , when you start an AAR on WitE i'll be glued to that one too even though i dont own the game (yet).

_____________________________

sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 2370
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